Trump: Bomb the hell out of ISIS - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14801255
Godstud wrote:Again, please demonstrate how 3 years of bombing has been successful in killing ISIS.

It won't eradicate ISIS but it helps.
I see no reason to stop bombing the terrorists.
As I stated earlier, it pleases me and my precious private feelings to know that those bastards get bombed every day. Even if they do not fear death, I am sure it makes them a little nervous.
Godstud wrote: US did, after all, create ISIS.

Repeating this conspiracy theory will not make it more believable.
#14801314
Godstud wrote:Again, please demonstrate how 3 years of bombing has been successful in killing ISIS.

Simply put, you can't. ISIS is still there. Don't you think it might be time for a different tactic to get rid of ISIS, by attacking the source: US Foreign Policy? US did, after all, create ISIS.

That was Obama, the Muslim President.
#14801327
:roll: now you're simply being asinine. He's as Christian as you are. Also, this doesn't alter the fact that the US has been bombing and droning ISIS for almost 3 years, so your argument is idiotic, and without basis, as well.
#14801345
Godstud wrote:US did, after all, create ISIS.

No Muslims created ISIS. Its amazing the pathetic little fantasies the Muslim lovers must stoop to in order to protect their fantasy about Islam being a religion of peace. Although this nonsense was also pushed by George Bush and Barack Hussein Obama. ISIS are following in the footsteps of the Prophet Mohamed in using terror to set up a world Caliphate.
#14801351
Hindsite wrote:I just don't delve into propaganda sources as do most of you liberal types. I don't subscribe to Playboy anymore either, although I do have a wallpaper on my computer of the sexiest naked blonde with big boobs that I ever saw in Playboy. I take a look at her once in awhile for inspiration from God's wonderful creation for man.

Praise the Lord.
HalleluYah


Riiiiight, so Fox isn't propaganda..... :roll:

And if you like the naked blonde so much, why not put her picture up above your bed? That will be more inspiring...... ;)
#14801385
Rich wrote:No Muslims created ISIS.
Quite right. I'm glad you agree. ISIS is made up of criminals.

Rich wrote:Its amazing the pathetic little fantasies the Muslim haters must stoop to in order to protect their fantasy about Islam being a religion of war.
Fixed for you. It looks like you were a bit confused.

No one here is saying Islam is a religion of peace. It's simply not the reason for ISIS, nor for the terrorism. US foreign policy, bombs, meddling, etc., are.
#14801422
Look at Jesus and his followers. How many wars did the Christians make during Jesus's (supposed life time) or in the hundred years afterwards? The same for the Buddha and his followers.

Now look at (the legend of) Mohammed and his supposed successors, the so called "rightly guided Caliphs? Do you see the difference?
#14801493
Do I need to mention the Crusades? What about World War 1, and 2(Hitler was Christian, incidentally)?

The Japanese leader was probably Shinto, but do you think religion played a part in those wars? Hitler used lots of Christian rhetoric in his speeches. Why do people not consider that a religious war?

That said, even those wars weren't religious. War is usually waged for resources, prestige, power, etc. Even the Crusades were simply a land grab for the Church.

Muslims and Christians alike are guilty of having war for these reasons, and trying to make it about the religion is where the logic falls apart. This is especially true when you look at the interplay between the West, and the Middle East over the last 100 years.
#14801514
Ter wrote:Repeating this conspiracy theory will not make it more believable.


It's not a 'theory' it's in the public domain. The Pentagon were forced to admit it in a 12 Aug. 2012 document called ‘The Future Assumptions of the Crisis,’ based on the Bush policies in Iraq of 2006 of divide-and-rule.

‘Supporting powers want’ ISIS entity
In a strikingly prescient prediction, the Pentagon document explicitly forecasts the probable declaration of “an Islamic State through its union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria.”

Nevertheless, “Western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey are supporting these efforts” by Syrian “opposition forces” fighting to “control the eastern areas (Hasaka and Der Zor), adjacent to Western Iraqi provinces (Mosul and Anbar)”:

“… there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist Principality in eastern Syria (Hasaka and Der Zor), and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime, which is considered the strategic depth of the Shia expansion (Iraq and Iran).”

The secret Pentagon document thus provides extraordinary confirmation that the US-led coalition currently fighting ISIS, had three years ago welcomed the emergence of an extremist “Salafist Principality” in the region as a way to undermine Assad, and block off the strategic expansion of Iran. Crucially, Iraq is labeled as an integral part of this “Shia expansion.”

The establishment of such a “Salafist Principality” in eastern Syria, the DIA document asserts, is “exactly” what the “supporting powers to the [Syrian] opposition want.” Earlier on, the document repeatedly describes those “supporting powers” as “the West, Gulf countries, and Turkey.”

Further on, the document reveals that Pentagon analysts were acutely aware of the dire risks of this strategy, yet ploughed ahead anyway.


My emphasis in bold. I read the document. It is not taken out of context. You can check yourself.
#14801533
@redcarpet
Thank you for the reference.
I read the article but I did not see proof of the West purposefully creating ISIS.
Rather, it was an outcome of supporting the uprising against Asad and Iran.
(which in my opinion was the wrong thing to do)


Here is the text as presented in the URL you provided:

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I suppose the American Government has an equal opportunity with positive discrimination policy when recruiting typists...
#14801535
That's right. just as Trump lied saying Obama 'founded' ISIS. Nor did he 'create' the ISIS in Libya; just sent money and weapons despite possibility of falling into their hands.

Which had BIPARTISAN SUPPORT. Both the GOP & Democrats in the U.S are culpable. It is not a partisan issue.
#14801538
Godstud wrote:That's not what it said, Ter. :roll:


Facts don't matter to partisan hacks unless they agree with them.

Maliki warned that the war in Syria could engulf Iraq, yet the United States and its allies kept supporting the insurgency. The American bombing of ISIS, relatively light and sporadic, has only intensified the belief of many Iraqis that the United States doesn’t want to defeat the group.

According to the official storyline, the US has sought to weaken ISIS in Syria by supporting “moderate” rebels. (President Obama has faced constant criticism for not arming opposition groups in Syria despite constantly arming opposition groups.)

The decision of the US to train its own force was an acknowledgement that it’d been unable to find moderate groups to support. Former US Ambassador Robert Ford has admitted as much, saying that “for a long time, we have looked the other way” as US-backed groups worked with al-Qaeda’s affiliate, the Islamic State of Iraq spinoff al-Nusra Front. Many “moderate” rebels — “entire CIA-backed rebel units” — have joined al-Nusra Front and ISIS. Earlier this year, the main US-backed group, Harakat al-Hazm, couldn’t beat al-Nusra Front — so it joined them.
#14801539
@redcarpet
first you said:
redcarpet wrote:That's right.

in your next post you said:
redcarpet wrote:Facts don't matter to partisan hacks unless they agree with them.

you are flip-flopping.
I genuinely tried to read and draw conclusions, not insult or belittle anyone

@Godstud
Godstud wrote:That's not what it said, Ter.

Fine, then quote me the relevant passage.
There is a fine line between causing something on purpose or having a non-intended consequence
(didn't we have this conversation earlier also about civilian deaths?)
#14801624
Considering the fact that 9/11 was an unintended consequence of US support for the mujaheddin, I think the US would have been wiser to avoid yet more support of Islamists in the MENA region.

Since the US has already suffered from such decisions, it seems logical to assume that policy makers are now fully aware that there could be negative consequences to supporting these groups and yet they continue to do it.

And if they know it might happen, is it still unintentional?
#14801632
Pants-of-dog wrote:Since the US has already suffered from such decisions, it seems logical to assume that policy makers are now fully aware that there could be negative consequences to supporting these groups and yet they continue to do it.

And if they know it might happen, is it still unintentional?


Giving in to fear of retaliation is not a sound basis to conduct foreign policy.
America decides what its geopolitical aims are and acts upon it.
So yes, it is still unintentional. Events in the Middle East and South Asia led to AQ and ISIS, but it was not only the US that was involved. The Soviet Union, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, several Western countries and others were also involved.
Looking back with hindsight is easy but nobody can predict the future.
A super power like the US cannot just sit back and observe, they have their priorities and interests, for good or for bad.

By the way I read George Friedman's geopolitical analysis since long and he predicted years ago that some scenarios would lead to Iran increasing its footprint in Iraq and beyond. And it came to pass. Should the previous presidents have pulled out because of those predictions?
I don't think so.
#14801633
Ter wrote:Giving in to fear of retaliation is not a sound basis to conduct foreign policy.
America decides what its geopolitical aims are and acts upon it.
So yes, it is still unintentional. Events in the Middle East and South Asia led to AQ and ISIS, but it was not only the US that was involved. The Soviet Union, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, several Western countries and others were also involved.
Looking back with hindsight is easy but nobody can predict the future.
A super power like the US cannot just sit back and observe, they have their priorities and interests, for good or for bad.


I am not sure what you are getting at here. Mostly because you are mixing several ideas in one paragraph.

It is almost certainly not unintentional that the US is supporting ISIS and other similar groups. They are almost certainly doing it with the intent of destabilising Assad.

This has nothing to do with fear of retaliation, as the US did not think the mujaheddin would retaliate against the US when the US supported it. We can assume that IS also will not retaliate when supported.

Yes, other countries were involved. The UK was also probably in there.

Now, no one is saying that they are predicting that bad things will happen. We are saying that we know that bad things can happen due to this involvement and yet the US and its allies continue anyway.
#14801635
Pants-of-dog wrote:Now, no one is saying that they are predicting that bad things will happen. We are saying that we know that bad things can happen due to this involvement and yet the US and its allies continue anyway.

Yes we can agree on that.
But we will probably come to different conclusions.

When I was writing the previous post I thought of the Italian judges who went after the mafia. The Italians knew that the mafia might retaliate but that did not change their minds. Several judges were assassinated yet nobody considered stopping the prosecutions.
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