It is Northern Macedonia after all? - Page 6 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14930643
Short update:

FYROM Parliament ratified the deal with Greece.
The President refused to sign it.
The Parliament ratified the deal second time, this, by the Constitution, avoids the need for Presidential signature.
Next step - confirmation referendum.
Then - the change of FYROM Constitution.
Then - Greece decides to ratify the deal.
#14978865


Manfred Weber is a German Conservative politician who belongs to the CDU(Merkel's party), he is the Leader of the European People's Party(EU-wide Conservative Coalition that currently enjoys EU wide majority) in the European Parliament and a candidate for President of the European Commission, he most likely will replace Juncker when his term runs out if the Conservatives win the EU elections again.

The stance of Mitsotakis is that the deal should not go through and that FYROM should not be recognised as "Macedonia".

In FYROM, they are having some difficulty finding the necessary MP's to vote the deal.
#14979120
Northern Macedonia has voted to amend its constitution and change its name. PM Zoran Zaev required a 2/3 majority in Parliament to achieve constitutional amendments and after much negotiation with nationalist opposition MP's who boycotted the vote it managed to snatch 8 of them(who were consequently disbarred from the nationalist party VMRO) and vote it through. The name of the country will officially change once the Greek parliament ratifies the deal next week.
#14979332
Is Greek parliament expected to ratify it, or play their own political games?
#14979335
It will be ratified 99.9%.

Tsipras far-right coalition partner said that the he will resign and take his MP's with him when the time comes, but yesterday he went on telly and said: "Did I actually say that?", anyhow even if he resigns, there are other parties(PASOK, Potami) that will vote for the deal with SYRIZA anyway.
#14979342
noemon wrote:It will be ratified 99.9%.

Tsipras far-right coalition partner said that the he will resign and take his MP's with him when the time comes, but yesterday he went on telly and said: "Did I actually say that?", anyhow even if he resigns, there are other parties(PASOK, Potami) that will vote for the deal with SYRIZA anyway.


What is your opinion of the entire situation? Don't make me go back through the thread to find out!

As an outsider, I would say, Greece should invade and annex Norther Macedonia. Make a new province with the same name.
#14979354
Rancid wrote:What is your opinion of the entire situation? Don't make me go back through the thread to find out!


As posted in June in this thread:

noemon wrote:All things considered I think it is a good solution, it is quite honourable for both countries as Greece gets its 2 main points:

a) a distinguishing word to separate the 2 Macedonias even though arguably a better one could have been found (.ie one that does not imply North Macedonia is part of a greater Macedonia), possibly New Macedonia or Slavic Macedonia would have been better.
b) a clear commitment to seize and desist the historical propaganda and appropriation

And Skopje gets its 2 main points:

The recognition of the Macedonian nation and language. As part of the Slavic family but that is not a retreat in anyway but factual reality.


I think that by putting this issue behind us, we can focus on rebuilding the entire Balkan neighbourhood. A lot of Balkan people(especially Bulgarians, Romanians and Albanians) speak Greek as a second language, and listen to Greek music religiously. We should reconstitute the Balkans now that this thorn has been removed. The Balkans is a wonderful place that has a lot of potential, with a significant population(80 million) and a lot of rebuilding required. If the Balkans were a country or a bloc, it would be the largest country in Europe, both in size and population. It has the finest athletes in a huge range of sport. It has proud populations and the longest history in Europe. Plus only a reconstituted Balkan area can stand up to Turkey who is set to overtake all European economies by 2040 or even by 2030 by other estimates and has already overtaken all European countries in population.
#14979681
noemon wrote:It will be ratified 99.9%.

Tsipras far-right coalition partner said that the he will resign and take his MP's with him when the time comes, but yesterday he went on telly and said: "Did I actually say that?", anyhow even if he resigns, there are other parties(PASOK, Potami) that will vote for the deal with SYRIZA anyway.


Kammenos, the partner, resigned today. We no longer have a coalition government, there will be a vote of confidence set to be won, then a ratification of the deal also set to be won on Tuesday and then setting the motion for the upcoming elections which are upon us anyway.
#14982659
The deal just got ratified by the Greek parliament completing all the stages for its implementation putting an end to a long-standing dispute.

For those who do not know I joined this forum back in 2007 in order to discuss the Macedonian Dispute first and foremost. I remember it was 2005 and I was on my third year at university in England when I switched on the news and witnessed the US in a total policy u-turn since the 1940's recognising this state as 'Republic of Macedonia' and fully adopting its anti-Greek narrative. During those years the Iraq war was raging, the Yugoslav wars were almost about finished and the US was building its largest European military base across the borders of Kossovo and FYROM spanning both. 2005 was also the year that Greece signed with Russia the South-Stream Corridor agreement which has been put on ice since 2011. Alarm bells started ringing in my head about what I perceived to be an imminent attack on the Greek nation and its national interests. 4 years later and only 1 year after Greece vetoed FYROM's application to NATO in 2008, the Greek nation would go financially bankrupt. Back in 2005 I decided to join online forums to speak up for these issues, needless to say that I have passed by almost every single online community that exists eventually making my home at a forum that was called macedoniaontheweb.com. There I came across Greek scholars who were very educated, concise and all-round good people, some of them are members of this forum such as Akritas, Anothroskon and others. The majority of us were Maniot people and we were for all intents and purposes very patriotic people. I recall there was a Greek born Turkish propagandist going by the name of Megalommatis that was scouring forums as well as publishing newspaper articles against the Greek position and I made it my mission to chase that character online and address his wild claims. That took me to various places, but most importantly it brought me here. I joined this forum to address one his threads: The Anti-Macedonian Hysteria of the Neo-Nazi Greeks.

This forum had a very varied and diverse community of posters and that intrigued me, soon afterwards I abandoned my home forum and became a full-time member of this community instead.
As a member of macedoniaontheweb.com I met a person from Skopia, a PhD student of History named Vasil Gligorov who decided to make an official notary certified statement in Skopja that addressed what he considered to be ultra-propaganda. Soon afterwards he was imprisoned and then taken to a mental hospital in North Macedonia, we became alarmed and informed the Greek parliament who put this into its agenda for discussion, a delegation of Greek journalists went to Skopjia to enquire leading to Vasil's release from the asylum.

For me personally this is the end of an era and I am very happy that we managed to come to an honourable solution that addresses our national concerns. I look forward to the conclusion of other disputes frozen in time, such as the unification of Cyprus and the Aegean Dispute.

A brief history of various threads from the past:

viewtopic.php?p=1710106#p1710106
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=93689&start=40
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76503
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=105774
viewtopic.php?p=1398855#p1398855
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=84278&p=1367422#p1367422
#14982820
euractiv wrote:The best world news to come in a long time is today’s vote by the Greek parliament, ratifying the so-called Prespa agreement and putting an end to the name dispute between Athens and Skopje.

As of today, the official name of what Greece used to call FYROM is the Republic of North Macedonia, and this Balkan country can now finally join NATO and start accession negotiations with the EU.

In a time of rising jingoism worldwide, the two votes – in Athens, but also the one before that, in Skopje – are giving hope that wisdom can prevail and nationalism can be vanquished.

But it hasn’t been easy.

In his country, Prime Minister Zoran Zaev has faced powerful nationalistic opposition, and it was exactly the same for Alexis Tsipras in Greece. Moreover, the big opposition parties in both countries sought legitimacy in their European political family, the EPP, the biggest force in the EU.

Regrettably, the EPP family did very little, if anything at all, to help the ratification of the Prespa agreement. They never formally opposed the agreement but they remained mostly silent on the issue. (Although Angela Merkel threw her personal weight behind it, visiting Athens and Skopje in the past month.)

The EU didn’t occupy centre stage in putting in place the Prespa agreement either, it was a UN-led process. Internationally, the agreement had one big enemy: Russia, who opposes the accession of North Macedonia to NATO.

The votes in Skopje and Athens clearly had a geopolitical dimension.

Indirectly, they were not only about the future of the Republic of North Macedonia but about the future of the entire Western Balkans. A domino effect following a negative vote could have destabilised this fragile region. Now, at least with respect to the NATO accession of North Macedonia, the point of no return has been reached.

The EU’s role is to make sure North Macedonia opens accession negotiations and that the people of this country realise the benefits of EU membership. It will not be easy: New Democracy in Greece already threatens to put obstacles to the accession process.

This political force leads in the polls ahead of the October elections. The EU should make sure that there will be no rollback imposed by Athens nationalists. And that the European political centres would not be accomplices.

When the Prespa agreement was signed last June, we wrote that anti-system diplomacy works. The stars aligned for this one, as Tsipras embodies a politician who is not responsible for the mess Greece is in, while Zaev is the rarest breed of Balkan politicians, immune to nationalism.

Personalities play a role in history. Many years will pass, but the two men on the photo we chose will be remembered. It’s such a rare occasion when the result of the politician’s enormous work becomes plain to see.

Zaev and Tsipras deserve the Nobel Peace Prize.

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