Is Israel's Annexing of the Golan Heights Similar to Russia's Annexing of Crimea? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14996111
It seems like it's way worse.

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Netanyahu Says Golan Heights Move ‘Proves You Can’ Keep Occupied Territory


JERUSALEM — For decades, international law has held that territory seized in war must be returned. But Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel asserted Tuesday that this was no longer a given.

He made the argument after President Trump recognized Israel’s sovereignty over the Golan Heights, but his remarks, two weeks before a tight Israeli election, were taken to refer to the West Bank as well.

“There is a very important principle in international life,” Mr. Netanyahu said late Monday after attending the Golan signing ceremony at the White House. “When you start wars of aggression, you lose territory, do not come and claim it afterwards. It belongs to us.”

And moments before landing at Ben-Gurion Airport on Tuesday, he emphasized the point, telling reporters, “Everyone says you can’t hold an occupied territory, but this proves you can. If occupied in a defensive war, then it’s ours.”

But Israeli sovereignty of the Golan remains a minority view. The United Nations secretary general and many countries in the region, from allies like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, to adversaries, like Iran and Syria, which claims the Golan, have condemned the American move.



US will 'never recognise Russia's annexation of Crimea'

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says " Russia has acted in a manner unworthy of a great nation" by annexing Crimea.

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said the United States will "never recognise Russia's annexation of Crimea" and that the US "will continue to insist that Ukraine's territorial integrity be restored."

Pompeo said in a statement made on Wednesday that the US "upholds its commitment to the international principle of sovereign equality."

"Russia, through its 2014 invasion of Ukraine and its attempted annexation of Crimea, sought to undermine a bedrock international principle shared by democratic states: that no country can change the borders of another by force," the statement by Pompeo read.

"The states of the world, including Russia, agreed to this principle in the United Nations Charter, pledging to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state," it continued.

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“There is a very important principle in international life,” Mr. Netanyahu said late Monday after attending the Golan signing ceremony at the White House. “When you start wars of aggression, you lose territory, do not come and claim it afterwards. It belongs to us.”


After the Six-Day War in 1967, the Israeli army captured the Golan Heights. After the October War in 1973, Israel held the entirety of the Sinai. In 1979, Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty by which Israel agreed to withdraw from the entirety of the Sinai Peninsula. Otherwise, Israel could have annexed the Sinai Peninsula. The Golan Heights will remain as it is now unless the two countries can reach a peace deal, which is very unlikely because Syria has been weakened by the IS takeover.
#14996138
Enter the new age of empires.
Gonna be interesting to see the reactions of Americans and their "lovely" allies when they finally get their heads out of their asses and start realizing that it's gonna be China's century and the Chinese aren't going to be shy about annexing territories all over to protect their interests using these precedents.
Russia as well to that matter since it just happens that Russia is on its way to implode and China would love a piece of that Siberia cake.


Either way, the set of laws and rules that were put in place after WW2 to prevent imperial expansion and the creation of empires are now with both the US and Russia, as well as Saudi Arabia, Israel, and UAE, breaking it without consequences makes these laws effectively void.
#14996140
The Golan Heights will remain as it is now unless the two countries can reach a peace deal, which is very unlikely because Syria has been weakened by the IS takeover.


its not because Syria have weakened its becasue your country have protected a regime that would never have a deal with Israel under the current circumstances
Iran wont allow Assad any deal with Israel even if he wanted it badly
it could only be possible if the rebels won

Peace with Syria is impossible unless the pro Iranian regime falls
#14996155
Zionist Nationalist wrote:its not because Syria have weakened its becasue your country have protected a regime that would never have a deal with Israel under the current circumstances
Iran wont allow Assad any deal with Israel even if he wanted it badly
it could only be possible if the rebels won

Peace with Syria is impossible unless the pro Iranian regime falls

Oh please! If the Assad regime fell, any Sunni regime that replaced it wouldn't be like the compliant regimes of Egypt or Jordan. People are unhappy with the way Assad has treated the Sunni Arabs. The level of retribution if the Sunni Arabs ever get back into power would be off the scale. In Syria the Muslim Brotherhood are the moderates.
#14996156
No, it's not 'similar', Israel has a right to protect itself.

Syria lost the Golan Heights in 1967 to Israel, after shelling Israeli towns & villages in the Six Day War.

Syria refused a ceasefire along with Egypt, Jordan, continued to attack Israel, which subsequently resulted in the Syrians accepting the ceasefire a few days later,but Israel continued to occupy the heights, less Syria resume it's hostilities, that really is the basis for Israel's current position, in effect, Syria lost the Heights by forfeiture.

whilst the actual 'real politik' between Israel with Syria is, since the so-called Arab Spring protest ,that gave the oportunity for ISIS to exploit for it's 'Caliphate', somewhat subdued, now that the conflict militarily is winding down, the political state will, in time re-assert itself.

As a result Israel is in effect, taking pre-emptive action for it's security, when for them, Syria is likely to be unstable for many a year to come & of course Syria lost the Golan Heights during the Arab-Israeli conflict.

In fact, Crimea belonged to the Russian empire for a long time since 1768, for a time it was an autonomous state within the Soviet Union, being taken over by the Ukraine following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia, having security concerns, alongside it's 'hostile' neighbour, the Ukraine, set up elections resulting in integration with Russia.
Circumstances & history are different in both cases with little similarity.
#14996172
Pandora's box was opened by NATO in the 1990s, by bombing Serbia and detaching Kosovo from it.
Kosovo, Crimea, Golan, three different cases but with the same results.
None of the three will return to previous ownership, none of the three will be accepted by everybody.
#14996178
Crimea was Russian under the Tsars for centuries, indeed, the Ukraine and Belarus are populated by Russian peoples (Byelorussians, Myalorussians, Velikorussians, Rusyns from Ruthenia, etc...) and their separation is un-natural.

Likewise, Kossovo is Serbian, in fact, Kossovo IS Serbia, it's spiritual heart, and it's more true to say that Serbia belongs to Kossovo than the other way around. Albanians belong in Albania, are recent immigrants to Kossovo and Macedonia.

The Golan Heights.... Sigh, I'm getting tired of Anti-Israel talk in some respects. They're not going anywhere, I don't think.
#14996243
Ter wrote:Pandora's box was opened by NATO in the 1990s, by bombing Serbia and detaching Kosovo from it.

First war in Abkhazia (1992) and Chechnya (1995) come to mind as examples of 'ink on a page' not matching reality, and that reality then being altered by force at the powerful state level. The difference with Kosovo, is that the page with ink was updated.

The great game never ends, only positions and the occasional competitor, change.
#14996300
Thunderhawk wrote:Chechnya (1995)

Chechnya was officially a part of Russia and the war was a repression of secessionists.
As cruel and deadly as it was, in that sense it is not part of the precedents mentioned.

The other events involved change of borders.
#14996319
I dont think the annexation of the Golan heights can be compared with Russia's "annexing" of Crimea.

The annexation of the golan heights was an act of violence and a show of force. It clearly shows a deep disrespect for the rights of others.

The "annexation" of crimea was an open invite by the predominantly russian population there, which didnt want to participate in a civil war the central government of ukraine waged againt the russian half of the population, and rather wanted to be ruled by Russia instead.

And unlike the Golan heights, the decision that Crimea belonged to Ukraine before is very questionable to begin with, based on the decision of a single person which, as a dictator, didnt really have the authority to do so in the first place.

And since not a single person was hurt and not a single threat was involved in Crimeas move from Ukraine to Russia, I oppose the very use of the term "annexation".

Because the term "annexation" implies an act of violence, such as the completely arbritary decision of Israel that, supported by nothing but the power of their superior wepons, they will take over the Golan heights.
#14996332
The 1954 transfer of Crimea was an act of State terrorism. It was not only illegal under so called International Law, it was very probably illegal according to Soviet law. Hence in 2014 Putin liberated Crimea from an illegal occupation.
#14996334
Rich wrote:The 1954 transfer of Crimea was an act of State terrorism. It was not only illegal under so called International Law, it was very probably illegal according to Soviet law. Hence in 2014 Putin liberated Crimea from an illegal occupation.


Regardless, all these acts are a breakdown of the post-1945 world order, much as Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait was, but then as now the world's Hegemon is selective in deciding whether to enforce the status quo. Increasingly it simply isn't capable of enforcing the world order, and at least with it's allies and vassals/clients, allows them their revisions of territory.
#14996390
I'm retweeting news - articles are attached if you can read - about the OP and how the vast majority of the world doesn't recognize The Golan as Israeli territory, but as Syrian territory that's been occupied for 4 decades by that lunatic state that invaded the Middle East 7 decades ago and expanded beyond the Palestinian territory it was given when it was handed over to European zionists by an the old empire that had/has no right to it.

Syrians have learned how to fight wars well. I have faith they'll get the Golan back just like they repeatedly got Syrian land back from mercenaries directed and armed by various world powers recently - including the zionist entity - and just as the SAA and Syrian government have promised they will do. :)
#14996399
skinster wrote:I'm retweeting news - articles are attached if you can read - about the OP and how the vast majority of the world doesn't recognize The Golan as Israeli territory, but as Syrian territory that's been occupied for 4 decades by that lunatic state that invaded the Middle East 7 decades ago and expanded beyond the Palestinian territory it was given when it was handed over to European zionists by an the old empire that had/has no right to it.

Yes, your views on the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish Homeland are well known in these circles.
How long has the Golan been under Israeli administration ? 4 decades like you said ? No, it is 52 years already, how time flies.
And how long has the Golan been under Syrian administration ? From 1946 till 1967, 21 years.
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights

By the way, Israel offered the Golan back to Syria but they refused to make a peace agreement because of the Khartoum declaration
no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution

So you see, things are not so clear cut as you make it appear.
But keep dreaming of Iranian and Syrian soldiers on the beach of lake Tiberias, with rockets :D
#14996405
Where were those European hypocrites when Kosovo was declared an independent state after bombing of Serbia by NATO ?

Anyway, no declarations or motions are going to change the facts on the ground.
I am going to drink a glass of excellent Golan wine to your health, @skinster

Lechaim !
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