EU-BREXIT - Page 180 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Rich
#14999806
What on earth is the justification for CHUK not becoming Liberal Democrats apart from the Chucker MPs grossly oversized sense of their own self importance? The best result for the Lib Dems would be if CHUK doesn't win a single MEP. Part of the problem for the Lib Dems has been the rise of the Greens, siphoning off precious votes. The last thing the Lib Dems need is anther "progressive alternative". It was the Lib Dem / Green vote splitting, I suspect that pushed a lot of voters to fall in behind Corbyn at the last General Election.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14999809
B0ycey wrote:I would expect the relevance of the EU election is telling for everyone. Only true Brexiteers will vote for "The Brexit Party" or "UKIP" and will do so from whatever party they originate from. Grabbing 34% of the vote means there are too many people backing Brexit to expect May to change course so the UK will remain in stalemate until October. And by then there are no more excuses she can give to seriously expect anything other than the EU letting us go as we are still in the same position as we are now.

I was hoping and perhaps expecting a strong Labour victory. Not anymore.


Nonsense-
BOYcey " Only true Brexiteers will vote for "The Brexit Party" or "UKIP" and will do so from whatever party they originate from".

Nonsense-

Well, I consider myself a 'leaver', but would never contemplate voting for any party, or UKIP.

I opine the the way I do, because the people voted 'Leave' in 2016, I contend that not delivering leave, is a contempt for the people & democracy.

As such, politicians must be punished by the electorate, as allowing them to get away with it on such an important issue now, would allow them to repeat that deceit on another issue in the future, when their credibility is already at it's historical low point, such is the deceit shown, it is unmatched since Neville Chamberlain's declaration on his return from seeing Hitler & he too was forced from office.

I am of the opinion, that the E.U gave Theresa MAY too much rope in allowing October as the deadline for the U.K ratifying the WA & I just don't see it happening without much political cost to any party that conspires to deceive the electorate any further.
By snapdragon
#14999885
I'm going to vote for the Liberal democrats, not because they have an earthly chance of getting in where I live, but every vote for a party which supports remaining and a people's vote, counts.

I agree with Heisenberg, As far as the EU elections are concerned, each individual party's stance on the EU is all that matters.

As an aside, yesterday, I vented some of my spleen on a bunch of stupid so called eco warriors that are cluttering up London at the moment. All of the silly bitches I saw had DYED RED HAIR and were probably responsible for polluting half our rivers by themselves. Not to mention the wrapped packets of sandwiches etc strewn about.

I cannot STAND them. I would leave them all superglued to whatever they've attached themselves to and ignore them. See what happens when they need the loo, the dirty buggers.
User avatar
By Ter
#14999886
snapdragon wrote:m going to vote for the Liberal democrats

@Nonsense Please go and vote for Farage's Brexit Party to nullify @snapdragon 's vote !
:D
By Atlantis
#14999888
The Tories which are in government poll at 15% while the Brexit party, which polls at 27%, doesn't have any representation in Westminster. This shows just how dysfunctional British democracy has become.

If this were a general election for Westminster, the Tories would get thrown out off parliament while a far-right Brexit party would replace them as one of the two big parties in the Commons. With a far-right party replacing the Tories, Labour would win all future elections. Perhaps this is Corbyn's long game. :?:
User avatar
By Ter
#14999893
Atlantis wrote:The Tories which are in government poll at 15% while the Brexit party, which polls at 27%, doesn't have any representation in Westminster. This shows just how dysfunctional British democracy has become.

A similar situation occurred in The Netherlands, when 2/3rds of the people voted against the European Constitution and the Parliament wanted to approve it by 2/3rds.
Never mind that the Constitution was rammed down their throats afterwards.
But interesting to note that the democratic deficit as they so politely call it is present in other countries as well.
User avatar
By SolarCross
#14999894
Atlantis wrote:The Tories which are in government poll at 15% while the Brexit party, which polls at 27%, doesn't have any representation in Westminster. This shows just how dysfunctional British democracy has become.

If this were a general election for Westminster, the Tories would get thrown out off parliament while a far-right Brexit party would replace them as one of the two big parties in the Commons. With a far-right party replacing the Tories, Labour would win all future elections. Perhaps this is Corbyn's long game. :?:

What do you mean by "far-right"? Is this an example of a nazi literally being the pot calling the kettle black?

Also explain horseshoe theory.
By Rich
#14999899
There is no democratic deficit this is a filthy Brexiteer lie. I'm quite happy to tell both the British people and the Dutch people where to go.

The people do not want to govern. Try suggesting yearly elections and see how well that goes down. The people are so effing lazy, that having to think about which party to vote for and go out and vote once a year is too much effort. This is why people like referendums, because its a nice simple binary choice. Having to think about which of the parties to vote for once a year is too much effort. Having to think about which of multiple parties to vote for is even more effort. Actually getting involved with a party, understanding its programme, explaining and extolling its programme too others, far too much effort. What about even involving oneself in the formation of party policy? Oh that's completely off the scale in terms of effort.

No as a whole the public completely abdicate their responsibilities, of holding their representatives and government to account. So they have zero, I repeat zero right to complain if their "will" doesn't get enacted.
User avatar
By Beren
#14999900
Atlantis wrote:Perhaps this is Corbyn's long game. :?:

And what's his short game? In the long run we are all dead and he's 69, so he should hurry up a bit perhaps if he still wants to be prime minister. How about becoming a real leader and standing up decisively against the Brexit Party - and Brexit too perhaps?
By snapdragon
#14999904
Ter wrote:@Nonsense Please go and vote for Farage's Brexit Party to nullify @snapdragon 's vote !
:D


What a good idea! Be sure to put your cross beside the candidate whose name is accompanied by a yellow bird, symbolising Britain flying away to freedom after Brexit, nonsense

( the poor old soul will never know. He must be pushing 90)
User avatar
By Nonsense
#14999937
Ter wrote:@Nonsense Please go and vote for Farage's Brexit Party to nullify @snapdragon 's vote !
:D

Nonsense-

That's where the wisdom of Solomon comes in, which is the lesser of two evils? :lol: :lol:
By Rugoz
#15000210
Rich wrote:There is no democratic deficit this is a filthy Brexiteer lie. I'm quite happy to tell both the British people and the Dutch people where to go.

The people do not want to govern. Try suggesting yearly elections and see how well that goes down. The people are so effing lazy, that having to think about which party to vote for and go out and vote once a year is too much effort. This is why people like referendums, because its a nice simple binary choice. Having to think about which of the parties to vote for once a year is too much effort. Having to think about which of multiple parties to vote for is even more effort. Actually getting involved with a party, understanding its programme, explaining and extolling its programme too others, far too much effort. What about even involving oneself in the formation of party policy? Oh that's completely off the scale in terms of effort.

No as a whole the public completely abdicate their responsibilities, of holding their representatives and government to account. So they have zero, I repeat zero right to complain if their "will" doesn't get enacted.


Party programs are usually devoid of important details and there's no guarantee it will be enforced either way. One would have to know the party's legislative track record and have an informed opinion on each one of its decisions.

Like everybody else I have basically given up and just vote for the party that has more or less the same ideas (at least I have more than 2 to choose from).

Decline in party membership is a serious issue I think. Personally I don't feel properly represented by one particular party so I would have to be serious about going into politics to actually join one.
By B0ycey
#15000271
SolarCross wrote:https://twitter.com/Daily_Express/status/1118484651323142144


Uuughhhh!!

Is this really where we are heading? A straight shootout between Lord Buckethead or Boris Johnson?

I vote Buckethead. :p
By B0ycey
#15000272
Rugoz wrote:Like everybody else I have basically given up and just vote for the party that has more or less the same ideas (at least I have more than 2 to choose from).

Decline in party membership is a serious issue I think. Personally I don't feel properly represented by one particular party so I would have to be serious about going into politics to actually join one.


Well to me it is becoming obvious that FPTP is the most undemocratic way to decide an election. Not only does it eliminate the worth of votes in safe seats, it handicaps fringe parties from ever gaining power.

Although as it is unlikely to find a party that represents 100% of your principles, most people usually vote for the one who more or less has the same ideas FYI.

And @snapdragon, I salute your principles for backing an anti Brexit party. I haven't decided to do likewise to send a message to Westminster or to back Labour anyway so to topple the Brexit Party. Perhaps if Change UK was polling higher I would vote them.
By snapdragon
#15000278
Boycey wrote:And @snapdragon, I salute your principles for backing a Brexit party. I haven't decided to do likewise to send a message or to back Labour anyway to topple the Brexit Party. Perhaps if Change UK was polling higher I would vote them.


It's all so last minute. I'm sick of the timid claims from Labour that a referendum would be more devisive than decisive. Grow some balls and take a chance.

We got past that point a long time ago.

It would at least a give some sort of voice to the millions of appalled remainers who are finding themselves being dragged down a shithole that is none of their making with seemingly no way out.

I'm one of the people who woke up with stunned disbelief almost three years ago to find we were leaving the EU, yet couldn't believe something so unbelievably stupid was going to happen.

Since then I've never really lost that hope, though I've come very near it.

Anyway, I read this online morning, which has cheered me up a bit.

I've always liked Tom Watson.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -elections
User avatar
By Beren
#15000296
GoFundMe wrote:Image
Lord Buckethead vs Farage in the EU MEP Elections!

Brexit. It’s so much wrong! Before 2015 most of us in Britain were happily getting on with our lives and arguing about things that matter such as the NHS, education, housing or whether a burger is also a sandwich or not, and so on.

Then Nigel Farage, David Cameron Grrr and a pile of outside money agitators started breaking all of our things. Enough is enough. Sometimes we need help to see how stupid our own small squabbling is.

This brings me to Lord Buckethead. Our Intergalactic Overlord.

His Bucketness, who has already run heroically against Margaret Thatcher, John Major, and Theresa May, was mentioned in a tweet recently, to which I replied:

“I wonder if @LordBuckethead would stand against @Nigel_Farage for his MEP seat? I'd crowdfund a campaign to knock and leaflet every school and house in that ward and the great Buckethead could well crush him at the ballot box. People would love it!”

Well, my call was answered! One of Lord Buckethead’s representatives here on Earth responded, informing me that Lord Buckethead has agreed to stand for election -- if together we can make it happen. You see, the European MEP elections will take place on the 23rd of May -- yikes, next month -- so we would just need to raise only £5000, to cover Lord Buckethead’s deposit, before this Thursday, April 25! Deadline, deadline! This one mustn’t whoosh by.

If we raise *more* than £5000, Buckethead’s emissaries on Earth will use every extra penny to campaign on the ground and on the Internet for Lord Buckethead to face down and beat Nigel Farage as MEP candidate for the South East of England!

WE ALL NEED TO COME TOGETHER NOW. Help us ensure that Nigel Farage faces Lord Buckethead at the ballot box and our Intergalactic Overlord ends Farage’s troublesome, self-aggrandising and damaging-to-us-all mischief once and for all.

I personally will receive nothing from this. I am merely representing Lord Buckethead and his human earth emissaries. All of your donations will be received by them and spent as described.

Just think. Brexit could be over. Nigel Farage could be vanquished. After all he was already beaten by a man dressed as a dolphin when he stood to become an MP. Let us not forget that. Spread our message far and wide and, NO JOKE, WE COULD WIN!

No Farage! All Hail Lord Buckethead!


Labour should have Lord Buckethead as leader immediately, he's doing Corbyn's job anyway.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15000301
#15000272

B0ycey wrote:Well to me it is becoming obvious that FPTP is the most undemocratic way to decide an election. Not only does it eliminate the worth of votes in safe seats, it handicaps fringe parties from ever gaining power.

Although as it is unlikely to find a party that represents 100% of your principles, most people usually vote for the one who more or less has the same ideas FYI.

And @snapdragon, I salute your principles for backing an anti Brexit party. I haven't decided to do likewise to send a message to Westminster or to back Labour anyway so to topple the Brexit Party. Perhaps if Change UK was polling higher I would vote them.



Nonsense-

Well, at last, we have a 'remainer' displaying his full credentials as a 'non-democratic' individual who thinks that, if 'democracy' doesn't deliver on what he wants, then, he can select any other method more to his liking, if he thinks that will achieve what he desires.

I have to say BOYcey, you are not alone in that, nearly all the 'remainers' are & it is pathetic.

You don't like what democracy throws up, so you throw your dummy out of the pram & scream blue murder in order to fulfill your hope of getting the 'right' type of attention elsewhere.

If democracy was left to right-thinking people to do, it would eliminate the majority, on the other hand, we live in an imperfect universe, so why should we really expect people that 'think' like you do, to be 'perfect' in what they decide.

The thing about democracy, as has been noted before, it doesn't always end up with the 'right' result in elections or referenda, it depends on what end of the scope you look at it from, what's 'right' for one, is 'wrong' for someone else, that's what democracy expresses, through weight of numbers & real democrats, do not contest results based on the arguments of bad losers like 'remainers' in this instance.

I have spent most of my life observing 'democracy' in action in Britain & it never fails to amaze me just how stupid the people are.

When one party does something so incompetent, like this government, in it's handling of a democratic excercise arising from the referendum, along comes the Labour Party, hell bent on losing the next election & keeping the Tories in power.

I have said before, just what, as well as how, the Tories retain their hold on power in times such as these, Theresa MAY will be replaced, possibly well before October, as a result of the MAY local elections, for which a replacement leader without a mandate, fighting a losing wicket in a hung parliament, will limp on until the next election & they will induce the stupid people to vote for them, by cutting taxes, followed by more deep spending cuts post-election.

Of course, the silly people will buy that, not knowing, or caring, that the National Debt increasing, is the way in which it is financing those tax 'cuts' & so the country slides down that long greasy pole.

That's why the people are so stupid, for, it is they who will pay the price of Tory attempts at remaining in power & most people recognise Theresa MAY's remarks on Tory fears of a CORBYN led government gaining power.

The fact is, CORBYN's arch-enemy herself, is the facilitator of CORBYN gaining power, BUT, for taxpayers money being used to bribe the electorate with their own money, in order to retain power under a 'new' leader.
User avatar
By Nonsense
#15000322
snapdragon wrote:It's all so last minute. I'm sick of the timid claims from Labour that a referendum would be more devisive than decisive. Grow some balls and take a chance.

We got past that point a long time ago.

It would at least a give some sort of voice to the millions of appalled remainers who are finding themselves being dragged down a shithole that is none of their making with seemingly no way out.

I'm one of the people who woke up with stunned disbelief almost three years ago to find we were leaving the EU, yet couldn't believe something so unbelievably stupid was going to happen.

Since then I've never really lost that hope, though I've come very near it.

Anyway, I read this online morning, which has cheered me up a bit.

I've always liked Tom Watson.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -elections



Nonsense-

It's alright feeling pessimistic about the situation SD, 'leavers' can feel that way too, but, we are also optimistic for the future, perhaps the only 'fear' to worry about, is fear itself, 'every cloud has a silver lining' & the future is what you make it.

Personally, I think that people are entitled to feel about any issue, in any way they like, that's natural, accepting the perceived 'negatives' as fact, consolidating that into a hard-fast stance & becoming resolutely opposed to the alternative is not normal.

I would not take any comfort in any words that Tom WATSON utters, he is anti-CORBYN & a 'remainer'.

He is a 'sabotager' acting against CORBYN within the party, I would not trust him for one second, it's a safe bet that he never left Labour with the other defectors, because of his position in the Shadow Cabinet & I would bet that he wouldn't have stayed otherwise.

It's people like him that will wreck Labour's chances at the next election, I guess that is his plan, so that the 'Third Way' group's hopes of taking over the party could happen-it will not be allowed to.

His 'confirmatory' vote, is just another 'remainer' loser wanting another referendum with 'remain' on the ballot paper, he is an idiot if he thinks people would buy that & that he thinks that Labour would 'benefit' politically from it-they will not.
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