Notre Dame, Symbol of Western Christendom, Burns in Paris - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14999872
Even if we assume that Muslims are as evil as the phobes claim, they do not have the demographic numbers to take over, nor do they have the economic or military might to do so.

As a threat to the existing power structure in the west, they are not significant.


Really. What were you doing on September 11th? Sweat lodge?

Nobody is talking about an armed invasion but you.

13 million visitors a year, 30 000 a day. While I am certain that a disproportionately high number of those are Catholic, and there is nothing wrong with these people enjoying their quaint superstitions, the reasons for rebuilding the cathedral do not need to depend on religion.


Ahhhh. Guess who owns Notre Dame? Then guess who pays for it?

While it is owned by the Ministry of Culture it is paid for by the Archbishop of Paris through the "Friends of Notre Dame".

But I see here the absurdity of some left wingers when it comes to religion. Why not admit, POD, that this is a church, that it was built to glorify God, that a billion or more people see it as a holy place and that the religion it serves is at the heart of French and indeed western culture?

What are you running from? You appear to be a Christophobe.

But I see you exercised your typical left wing bigotry by referring to people's deepest held beliefs as "quaint superstitions". And you want me to take the religious and cultural claims of Indians seriously? Hypocrite.
#14999884
Drlee wrote:Really. What were you doing on September 11th? Sweat lodge?

Nobody is talking about an armed invasion but you.


You really like to make these racist little comments about indigenous people to me.

Anyway, did the Muslims take over the USA after that and force people to do stuff? (Not like the other September 11th....)

No. In fact, the attack further ostracised and marginalised Muslims so much that Islamophobia is still a good way to get US people to vote Republican.

Thanks for proving my point.

Ahhhh. Guess who owns Notre Dame?

Then guess who pays for it?


The taxpayer.

Taxpayers often subsidise churches, especially in the Francophone world.

But who owns it and who has to pay for it are irrelevant to the fact that Christian sentiments are not necessary when it comes to finding good reasons to rebuild Notre Dame.

But I see here the absurdity of some left wingers when it comes to religion. Why not admit, POD, that this is a church, that it was built to glorify God, that a billion or more people see it as a holy place and that the religion it serves is at the heart of French and indeed western culture?


This may all be true, but that does not change the fact that we could create a perfectly good argument for rebuilding that has nothing to do with religion.
#14999896
Ter wrote:I just read in a European newspaper that a man was arrested in New York's cathedral with two containers gasoline and a lighter. It needs confirmation.

The New York Daily News and other publications, citing unnamed police sources, identified the man as a philosophy professor and a New Jersey resident.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-new- ... SKCN1RU09C

Probably an antifa leftist given this: "philosophy professor". You all remember Eric Clanton the bike lock guy?

#14999912
Red_Army wrote: I do find it funny when Americans shit all over the French in a "cheese eating surrender monkey" fashion after the yellow vest revolt shows that they are literally willing to fight in the streets over policy they disagree with while Americans sit around doing nothing. I know that your dislike of the French has more depth than that, but it is something to remember.


Don't take my satire too seriously.

That being said, nothing like the gas tax was attempted here and if it were I think the reaction would be far worse as the population density is much LOWER and the driving needs of Americans is FAR greater than that of nearly any European nation. Americans are so dependent on gasoline (especially rural Americans) that in my opinion, we'd see far greater chaos here than the Yellow Vests in France and over a much lower increase.

This is partly the reason the U.S. is so determined to maintain its imperialist hegemony over the middle-east (besides protecting the value of the dollar). America's cities, culture, and economy is entirely predicated on the gamble that gasoline will forever be cheap and I don't think Europe has nearly the same level of dependency as their culture, cities, and economic capabilities were well established prior to the petro-era, much unlike America which only became a serious power after the advent of oil refinement.

A gas tax half of what Macron was attempting would put America in flames.
#14999921
'You can screw us as you want, but no gas tax!' :lol:

Although Americans consider themselves a free people, maybe they mean freedom as personal freedom and collective independence from any foreign oppressor only, so something like the French Revolution may even be unimaginable there, whereas even Trump may count as a revolutionary (and a Presbyterian :lol: ) after Occupy Wall Street fell.
Last edited by Beren on 18 Apr 2019 16:05, edited 1 time in total.
#14999922
@Victoribus Spolia that's not it at all. It's more about the lack of organized activism, especially with regard to the lack of a major labor party. France has both of these in spades and we don't. Activism in the US has long been treated essentially like a concert that you go to and then pat yourself on the back.

edit: Also you know I live in Alaska right? I'm not some ivory tower intellectual looking at America from the outside... I live among the pigs and muck so my understanding of Americans is as good as anyones.
#14999925
Pants-of-dog wrote:I find the entire Anglosphere is pretty bad at organised labour and militancy. Canadians would be absolutely paralysed by a significant gas tax, but they would just wait a few years and then vote that person out of office.

I suspect the US would do the same.

Macron didn't screw it up with the gas tax alone, it was just the last straw that broke the camel's back, however, he only fulfilled a presidential election campaign pledge.

France’s super-rich will benefit most from Macron’s tax breaks

So while he gave tax breaks to the rich, he also meant to introduce a gas tax.
#14999958
Y
ou really like to make these racist little comments about indigenous people to me.


Racist? What did I say that was racist?

You are the one constantly honoring the religious beliefs of American Indians but referring to Christianity in a bigoted manner.
#15000056
Red_Army wrote: Also you know I live in Alaska right? I'm not some ivory tower intellectual looking at America


Your desire to distance yourself from the average urbanite marxist psuedo-intellectual in $200K of student debt or the geriatric urbanite marxist professors (largely responsible for the debts of the former) is admirable.

Red_Army wrote:that's not it at all. It's more about the lack of organized activism, especially with regard to the lack of a major labor party. France has both of these in spades and we don't. Activism in the US has long been treated essentially like a concert that you go to and then pat yourself on the back.


You don't need organized political parties of a "true left" nature to oppose a gas tax or spontaneously riot as a response to bad policy.

Whether or not "protest culture" is a narcissistic reflection of our social-media obsessed youth movements is an entirely seperate matter and only reveals that protests aren't taken seriously by anyone including the protestors themselves. This is not due to a lack of grass-roots organization but an actual lack of desperation; which is obvious and was my point.

IF Americans had to deal with a gas tax even half of that seen in France, you would be looking at a nation-wide revolt because of the desperation it would create. You don't need established organizations for activism and protest for this to be the case, you just need the will to do so. We agree that Americans don't have the political will right now, but that is not because of a lack of a real communist party, but an excess of comfort and ease. Things like a gas tax would disrupt such ease in a country as rural and decentralized as the United States. Thats all I am saying.
#15000063
SolarCross wrote:That is true for the UK too. People go on protests but it is more like a recreational activity than revolution, a cheap alternative to going to a pop concert.

After more than 20 weeks without any further achievement than they achieved after 10 weeks or so we could say the same about the Yellow Vests too perhaps, however, let's see if they can get some seats in the EP, which might be their actual political goal if they still have any.

Rancid wrote:This sums it up. Things are still too good in America for there to be some sort of mass revolt.

I also think VS nailed it this time, however, I wonder whether Macron could have got away with the gas tax alone if he hadn't given tax breaks to the rich as well. Gas tax is not such a big deal in Europe, as far as I know gas is heavily taxed throughout the continent.
Last edited by Beren on 19 Apr 2019 14:59, edited 1 time in total.
#15000064
Red_Army wrote:
that's not it at all. It's more about the lack of organized activism, especially with regard to the lack of a major labor party. France has both of these in spades and we don't. Activism in the US has long been treated essentially like a concert that you go to and then pat yourself on the back.


You are right. It is a lack of organized activism mostly because the US is an essentially conservative country. Both of our parties are right wing by European standards. We are not up for long-haul politics.

And we are too comfortable. If we had been in even a minor recession during the Trump presidency he would be gone by now and Pence would be a born again New Dealer.

Unemployment is virtually over and though a great many Americans are paid laughable wages, they don't and have never mattered. The US is run by oligarchs. It really is as simple as that.
#15000066
Beren wrote:After more than 20 weeks without any further achievement than they achieved after 10 weeks or so we could say the same about the Yellow Vests too perhaps, however, let's see if they can get some seats in the EP, which might be their actual political goal if they still have any.

20 weeks seems pretty serious; that is a bit more than a fun day out.

Beren wrote:I also think VS nailed it this time, however, I wonder whether Macron could have got away with the gas tax alone if he hadn't given tax breaks to the rich as well. Gas tax is not such a big deal in Europe, as far as I know gas is heavily taxed throughout the continent.

What do they say they are protesting: the tax breaks which don't affect them or the gas taxes which do? You should know if something is already overpriced and it gets a price hike then that hurts more than a cheap thing getting a price hike. Gas taxes are already at the max of what is tolerable.

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