Trump's Tariffs: Who actually benefits? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15004819
Trump has stated over and over again that billions and billions of dollars will come to the USA via the increase to tariffs on imported Chinese goods.

Meanwhile, endless media outlets have been shouting from the rooftops that China does not pay the tariffs. They push forward with the position that the burden of this 15% increase will ultimately come from the pockets of American companies.

While it's well known that Trump is economically illiterate, there must be something more to this. In no way does Trump actually believe that China will pay the 25%. We have to assume that Trump simply must be aware of what will happen as a result of this increase and how it could benefit us.

Apparently, China is also well aware of what will happen. Their response to the new 25% tariff, is to increase their tariffs on goods imported from the US.

Huh? Why? If they're collecting more money from us, shouldn't they just take the money and run? Why increase the tariff on their end as well? Were not paying for it, right?

It looks as though both of these countries are just interested in making their citizens pay higher prices for imported goods. Or maybe, were just not grasping what's going on.

Think about all this for just a moment. The US increases the tariff and then China increases theirs. It doesn't look to make any sense....but it does. The effect of tariff increases has been taken too literally by the media. All people see is US companies paying more money.

But what happens when imported goods become to expensive for US companies? What happens when the tariff makes the price for imported good too high? Where might you look to get a better price?

You would look to buy domestic products, silly.

The point of increasing the tariff is to persuade local business to stop purchasing from abroad and instead spend the money right here in the good ole' USA. China doesn't pay the tariff: we do. But why pay it when you can get goods for a better price right here at home?

China understands this. If the increase to the tariff results in less Chinese imported goods being sold in the US, it only makes sense for China to increase their tariff to do the same to us. Pretty simple.

Of course, this whole plan fails if domestic products are still too expensive even with the increase.
#15004837
Gravy wrote:The point of increasing the tariff is to persuade local business to stop purchasing from abroad and instead spend the money right here in the good ole' USA. China doesn't pay the tariff: we do. But why pay it when you can get goods for a better price right here at home?

China understands this. If the increase to the tariff results in less Chinese imported goods being sold in the US, it only makes sense for China to increase their tariff to do the same to us. Pretty simple.

Of course, this whole plan fails if domestic products are still too expensive even with the increase.

That is pretty much it. The Chinese increase the tariffs on soybeans to make the soybeans more expensive to the Chinese in the same way so that the Chinese stop buying American soybeans.

The American businesses are going to have to get smart and get their goods from somewhere else, until China agrees to stop cheating. Trump said he wanted them to make more goods in America and buy American. They may feel some pain for awhile, but maybe it will wake them up to what is really happening. The left-wing media want Trump to fail so their Democrats can gain full power over the government, so they are not going to tell the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say.
#15004843
Nobody benefits from the Tariffs, except for local producers, who, unless they are exporting, will have reduced competition. Such is not the case, and Deranged Donald knows fuck all about economics and trade.

Dumb Donald's tariffs aren't helping Americans. They are costing the government $billions and passing costs onto the consumers. :knife:

Some are too stupid to notice, or acknowledge this, though.
#15004856
Godstud wrote:Nobody benefits from the Tariffs, except for local producers, who, unless they are exporting, will have reduced competition. Such is not the case, and Deranged Donald knows fuck all about economics and trade.

Dumb Donald's tariffs aren't helping Americans. They are costing the government $billions and passing costs onto the consumers. :knife:

Some are too stupid to notice, or acknowledge this, though.

Typical leftie liberal stupidity and ignorance. Tariffs don't cost the government $billions they raise the government $billions. They are a just a tax.
#15004862
So who's paying for the bailouts? Who's paying for the increased price of Chinese products? The consumers, that's who.

[KS mod edit: rule 2]
#15004872
Neither China nor US companies will pay the tariffs imposed by Trump. The US consumer will have to pay the tariffs. The additional income for the treasury is not that significant. It hardly makes a dent in the budget deficit. It's a side effect Trump uses to show that his trade war is a win-win instead of the lose-lose it really is.

Anyways, the tariffs are just the means to achieve the aim of reducing the trade deficit. Trump believes he can intimidate the Chinese (or Canada, or the EU, etc.) by playing the bully. Moreover, he has chosen trade hawks as advisers who now have to play the yes-men in order not to get axed. They need to dream up plans to put Trump's simplistic ideas about trade into practice. People like Lightizer have decades of trade experience in bullying US allies like Japan into submission. I wonder if they realize that China can't be bullied into submission like Japan?

In the end, the trade war will be bad for everybody, even for third party countries. Trump has the good fortune of having inherited a strong economy which even he can't ruin in one term. The Chinese are already feeling the economic pain since exports are down and growth is much reduced; however, they are prepared to take a lot more pain than Americans. Once the higher prizes are felt in the shops and stocks start to tumble (like the Nasdaq of the last couple of weeks) Republican supporters are going to get very nervous.
#15004911
We can begin with the Federal government. The tariffs will end up in the treasury. American businesses, though, may see a reduction in sales and thus will pay less taxes into the Treasury. In addition, those businesses who suffer enough reduction in sales that they have to reduce staffing will mean that those let go will pay less taxes into the Treasury.

And that's just the federal Treasury, but one of a number of 'cost centers' we can examine.
#15004912
I think the goal is not to benefit directly from the tariffs so much as to try and force China to give the US more advantageous trade deals.

The biggest issue is that both Trump and the Chinese are the kind to not blink easily, so we might see an actual trade war (instead of the imaginary one the MSM has tried to convince us we're in) for an unknown amount of time as the two sides try to get each other to blink first. A protracted trade war is unlikely though as both sides engage in a lot of trade and probably, neither country has the stomach for it to drag on for too long.
#15004965
I'm enjoying watch Trump supporters try to actually explain why they like this specific policy, which they are unable to understand or justify aside from Daddy Trump making them feel tingly in their peepees.

Hong Wu wrote:so we might see an actual trade war (instead of the imaginary one the MSM has tried to convince us we're in)


Lmfao @ this incredibly stupid take.
#15005151
Godstud wrote:....Dumb Donald's tariffs aren't helping Americans. They are costing the government $billions and passing costs onto the consumers.


Yes, the cost is passed onto the consumers. However, because consumers now realize that that the cost is too high; they'll look to get a better price locally.

Donald's theory, I assume, is that if local businesses stop purchasing Chinese imports, they'll buy American. The American businesses they purchase from will grow stronger over a period. Eventually, local market will become competitive again, which will result in businesses lowering their prices, which makes their products more affordable. The prices will be high for awhile, but if the money stays in America we'll all benefit from it.

I dont' agree with much of anything coming from Trump, but I do tend to side with this tariff strategy. I'm not going to tell you that American businesses shouldn't be buying locally made goods. Our country spends far too much money on Chinese imports. If we keep the money here at home, we'll struggle for awhile but eventually feel the benefit.

Torus34 wrote:We can begin with the Federal government. The tariffs will end up in the treasury. American businesses, though, may see a reduction in sales and thus will pay less taxes into the Treasury.


I'm not following you on any of this. It's not about the Treasury.

Let's take a company like Walmart for example. Walmart has over 3500 Supercenters in the USA.

During any business day, they track all the goods that are sold in each Supercenter. As a result, a purchase order is generated which is sent to corporate. Corporate then puts in an order for each and every product in that purchase order. Most of the products in those orders are Chinese imports.

So, the 25% tariff is paid by Walmart and the recipient of that tariff is us.

If the cost of those imports becomes too high as a result of the 25% tariff (It will be) then perhaps Walmart will buy local goods instead.

As to why you think the money will end up in the Treasury I have no idea.
Last edited by Gravy on 16 May 2019 20:28, edited 1 time in total.
#15005156
They're just going to buy from other countries in SE Asia, not America. As long as the dollar is strong enough to make outsourcing the cheaper option businesses will pursue it.

If we want to manufacture more of our own goods then we will need to devalue the dollar to the point where it makes sense for other countries to purchase cheap American labor to produce cheap plastic crap. Then we can be China! Yayyyyy!!! I want to work for American Foxcon!!!

Failing that, we can just put massive tariffs on all imported goods and have a Stalinist economy like North Korea where all or nearly all goods are manufactured within the country. Yayyyy!!!
#15005167
Gravy wrote:I'm not following you on any of this. It's not about the Treasury.

Let's take a company like Walmart for example. Walmart has over 3500 Supercenters in the USA.

During any business day, they track all the goods that are sold in each Supercenter. As a result, a purchase order is generated which is sent to corporate. Corporate then puts in an order for each and every product in that purchase order. Most of the products in those orders are Chinese imports.

So, the 25% tariff is paid by Walmart and the recipient of that tariff is us.

If the cost of those imports becomes too high as a result of the 25% tariff (It will be) then perhaps Walmart will buy local goods instead.

As to why you think the money will end up in the Treasury I have no idea.


Sir, to whom does Walmart pay the tariff?

Regards.
#15005172
Probably more American multinational companies will opt for Made in America, thus creating manufacturing jobs in the Unites States. Ralph Lauren’s product development team is based in New York but Team USA’s Summer 2012 Olympics apparel was controversially made in China. Apple's iPhones are still "assembled in China". America's middle class was liquidated by the rise of China as the factory of the world.



After coming under fire for outsourcing Team USA’s Summer 2012 Olympics apparel in China, Ralph Lauren contracted Carver to begin weaving together a supply chain that would outfit America’s Olympians in Made in America clothing from head to toe, starting with the sheep who provided the wool needed to knit Team USA’s sweaters for the 2014 Winter Olympics.

Thus began Ralph Lauren’s mission to source and manufacture every component of its Olympic uniforms in America, a commitment the company has sustained for three Olympic games, including the 2018 Winter Olympics.

This year, Carver again supplied wool for Team’s USA clothing, initiating a supply chain that produced opening and closing ceremony outfits for more than 700 Team USA athletes and staff members at this year’s Olympic and Paralympic competitions in PyeongChang, South Korea.

http://www.americanmanufacturing.org/bl ... inter-olym
#15005833
eanwhile, this is a perfect example of how Trump's trade tax is hurting America.

The tariffs on steel and aluminium have made manufacturing farm equipment more expensive.

The trade war with China has gutted the market for grains sold to China.

Farmers stop buying equipment because of the loss of income and uncertainty.

John Deere slows down production.

People lose their jobs.

White guys kill themselves with guns.

https://qctimes.com/business/deere-b...1VaTt6fvsnCO7k

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...g-of-whiteness. Meanwhile, this Trump tax is going to cost the average American family. And that is the real purpose of the tariffs. To bleed the American middle and lower class in order to help offset the hundreds of billions lost in the tax cuts for the wealthy. http://time.com/5587197/trump-china-...6t0ie7JIeUtwoY
#15005980
U.S. Reaches Deal With Canada, Mexico to End Steel and aluminium Tariffs
May 17, 2019

The Trump administration reached agreements with Canada and Mexico to end U.S.-imposed tariffs on steel and aluminium imports and unwind retaliatory measures, removing a major barrier to the three countries’ new trade pact.

Mr. Trump hailed the deal in a speech in Washington, saying the U.S. “just reached an agreement with Canada and Mexico and we will be selling our product into those countries without the imposition of tariffs or major tariffs.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-close- ... 1155811044

Tariffs are working to get better trade deals.
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