Non-Citizens Committed a Disproportionate Share of Federal Crimes, 2011-16 - DEBUNKED - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15006132
They say the best lies are 80 percent true, but this widely-referenced piece of anti-immigration propaganda posted by the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) misses that mark:

https://cis.org/Camarota/NonCitizens-Co ... mes-201116

It opens with this...

"Many immigration advocates argue that immigrants have much lower crime rates than natives... As my colleague Jessica Vaughan and I pointed in a paper some years ago, however, the picture is far from clear."

...which is NOT true:

Not only is it plain common sense that illegal immigrants avoid committing crimes because their arrest might lead to deportation, but also and more importantly there is instead substantial authoritative evidence supporting the facts that immigrants in general and illegal immigrants in particular are LESS likely to commit crimes than other American residents. Here is just one example, which alone proves the point:

https://www.cato.org/blog/illegal-immig ... g-evidence

The CIS continues with this...

"While there are other issues, the biggest problem with studying immigrant crime is that states and localities do not systematically track the country of birth, citizenship, or legal status of those they arrest, convict, or incarcerate. But the federal government does track the citizenship of those it convicts. New data from the U.S. Sentencing Commission [USSC] shows that of those convicted of federal crimes between 2011 and 2016, 44.2 percent were not U.S. citizens — 21.4 percent, if immigration crimes are excluded. In comparison, non-citizens are 8.4 percent of the adult population. Of this 8.4 percent, about 4 percent are illegal immigrants and about 4 percent are legal immigrants."

...which is also NOT true:

As the following research shows, with or without immigration crimes excluded, (a) USSC "non-citizen" statistics include more than illegal immigrants, (b) USSC "offender" statistics are not comparable to general population stats, and (c) the US Census Bureau does not (yet) collect citizenship status data anyway. In other words, NONE of the CIS statistics above (44.2%, 21.4%, 8.4& or 4%) provide a logically valid or authoritative basis for assessing the share of all crimes committed by either non-citizens or illegal immigrants:

https://docdro.id/ZiIpBdy

The CIS then goes on to assert "[it] is almost certain that a majority of the non-citizens convicted of federal crimes are illegal immigrants" and "non-citizens are more likely to commit crimes than citizens" - both of which are baseless claims, the first of which would be baseless even IF the CIS stats were valid.

Finally the CIS presents a series of statistics they claim to be based on tables showing convictions "compiled by the Government Accountability Office [GAO] at the request of the Senate Judicatory Committee." But they provide no link to any government website for the supporting GAO document, and the US Senate DOES NOT HAVE a "Judicatory Committee." Be it fraud or faux pas, this is a glaring example of why Media Bias/Fact Check rates the white nationalist Center for Immigration Studies as "questionable":

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center-f ... udies-cis/

Non-Citizens Committed a Disproportionate Share of Federal Crimes, 2011-16 - DEBUNKED.
#15006318
The criminal rate of illegal immigrants is: 100%.

But seriously, the idea that illegal immigrants commit less crime doesn't pass the smell test if you visit the local bario. I don't need ivory Tower quibbling over statistics to see what's going on right in front of me.

Also:


DNA testing shows that 1/3rd of people claiming a parent-child relationship with children at the border are lying. Let that sink in; 1 in 3 of the people with children got the child from some kind of child trafficking operation.
#15006333
@Hong Wu

I have met immigrants serving in our armed forces that are much more worthy of American citizenship than most American citizens. You do realize that quote "illegal" immigrants contribute a vast sum of money to social security and medicare that citizens like you and I benefit from. Most of these immigrants that pay into social security and medicare never see a dime of it, while you benefit from it while on the same token bash these same immigrants that have paid into your benefits.
#15006340
Politics_Observer wrote:@Hong Wu

I have met immigrants serving in our armed forces that are much more worthy of American citizenship than most American citizens. You do realize that quote "illegal" immigrants contribute a vast sum of money to social security and medicare that citizens like you and I benefit from. Most of these immigrants that pay into social security and medicare never see a dime of it, while you benefit from it while on the same token bash these same immigrants that have paid into your benefits.

You're cherry picking quite a bit to use legal immigrants in the armed forces as your example. 1/3rd of the people crossing the border with children are clearly not above employing the human trafficking of children; they haven't even made it all the way in yet and they're already criminals.
#15006347
@Hong Wu

I'm not talking about just immigrants serving in our armed forces. I am also talking about those immigrant here who do not have social security numbers and yet pay a lot of money into the system that you and I benefit from and who are otherwise not criminals though technically by your definition they are "criminals" because they came here "illegally." A lot of them are fleeing some desperate situations and if I were in their shoes I would probably do the same thing. You shouldn't be so judgemental of these immigrants fleeing some pretty extreme circumstances like in Central America for example where gangs and drug cartels have a stranglehold over neighborhoods experiencing extreme poverty. The people that come from these extremely impoverished neighborhoods in Central America that are ruled by drug cartels and gangs do not have the luxury of choice like you and I do.
#15006350
Politics_Observer wrote:@Hong Wu

I'm not talking about just immigrants serving in our armed forces. I am also talking about those immigrant here who do not have social security numbers and yet pay a lot of money into the system that you and I benefit from and who are otherwise not criminals though technically by your definition they are "criminals" because they came here "illegally." A lot of them are fleeing some desperate situations and if I were in their shoes I would probably do the same thing. You shouldn't be so judgemental of these immigrants fleeing some pretty extreme circumstances like in Central America for example where gangs and drug cartels have a stranglehold over neighborhoods experiencing extreme poverty. The people that come from these extremely impoverished neighborhoods in Central America that are ruled by drug cartels and gangs do not have the luxury of choice like you and I do.

OK. I'm a supporter of legal immigration, in fact I'm a legal immigrant myself for the moment at least, living in Hong Kong currently. Illegal immigration invites criminality. There is no binary choice between open borders and no immigration so let's not get emotional about it.
#15006355
Politics Observer wrote:You do realize that quote "illegal" immigrants contribute a vast sum of money to social security and medicare that citizens like you and I benefit from. Most of these immigrants that pay into social security and medicare never see a dime of it, while you benefit from it while on the same token bash these same immigrants that have paid into your benefits.

That's mostly crap. Most illegal aliens do manual labor for cash. They generally do not submit fraudulent I9s and W2s (which is a crime, meaning Hong Wu is 100% right) and get subject to withholding. Slaving illegal immigrants is not legally right or morally right. That's why people who support illegal aliens are moral reprobates.

Politics Observer wrote:I am also talking about those immigrant here who do not have social security numbers and yet pay a lot of money into the system that you and I benefit from and who are otherwise not criminals though technically by your definition they are "criminals" because they came here "illegally."

To pay in, they have to be illegally using someone else's social security number. You can't just pay in with no SSN tracking it. Again, it's criminal.

Politics Observer wrote:A lot of them are fleeing some desperate situations and if I were in their shoes I would probably do the same thing.

So you are willing to break the laws of another country if you fall into desperate straits.

Politics Observer wrote:You shouldn't be so judgemental of these immigrants fleeing some pretty extreme circumstances like in Central America for example where gangs and drug cartels have a stranglehold over neighborhoods experiencing extreme poverty. The people that come from these extremely impoverished neighborhoods in Central America that are ruled by drug cartels and gangs do not have the luxury of choice like you and I do.

What choices do we have? We're in the middle of a major political fight in the US too between non-nationalist multi-national corporations and voters who want corporations to serve the citizens of the country in which they are domiciled.

Hong Wu wrote:Illegal immigration invites criminality. There is no binary choice between open borders and no immigration so let's not get emotional about it.

Politics Observer is in favor of exploiting illegal immigrants, and suggests that such exploitation is beneficial to you; therefore, you should not object to exploitation. That's precisely why the internationalists are increasingly hated, not just in the US, but across the Western world.
#15006360
Hong Wu wrote:DNA testing shows that 1/3rd of people claiming a parent-child relationship with children at the border are lying. Let that sink in; 1 in 3 of the people with children got the child from some kind of child trafficking operation.


I doubt this. Please provide evidence for this claim.
#15006367
Pants-of-dog wrote:I doubt this. Please provide evidence for this claim.

Obviously, there is a self-imposed gag order on the mainstream media reporting this. You have to go overseas to get information about ICE public statements: Rapid DNA testing reveals a THIRD of migrants faked family relationship with children to claim asylum during ICE pilot of the procedure in Texas
There's a huge amount of fraud in the claims too, as Political Observer can no doubt attest to since he claims he would violate the law under such circumstances too.
Last edited by blackjack21 on 21 May 2019 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
#15006411
Pants-of-dog wrote:If the only source is a tabloid that is known for lying, it would be fair to say there is no objective evidence for this claim.

Here it is, straight from FakeNews CNN: Administration considers next steps in DNA testing on the border

Pants-of-dog wrote:It showed that one third of all families that were suspected of not being related at the border were not biologically related.

:roll: That's essentially a distinction without a difference. They aren't testing everyone just yet, but of those that they have tested in their pilot program, one third is a pretty interesting number. It suggests statistical significance is likely.
#15006418
if it came from Obese Donald it is a good bet that it is:

1)an outright bald faced lie
2)a de facto lie (way out of context)
3)a half truth that, when combined with the other half, is a lie.
4)meaningless self aggrandizement
5)grade school level nonsense designed to entertain the conned ones.
or
6)self serving political hot air

This one may well be my favorite:

“The Republicans … are developing a really great HealthCare Plan with far lower premiums (cost) & deductibles than ObamaCare,” Trump continued. “In other words it will be far less expensive & much more usable than ObamaCare. Vote will be taken right after the Election when Republicans hold the Senate & win … back the House.”

Anybody want to bet their life on this? I'll give you good odds :lol: .

It is way generous to say that Obese Donald has ……. a credibility issue. All politicians, of course, do but the Obese One is ….. The Greatest.
#15006452
jimjam wrote:if it came from Obese Donald it is a good bet that it is:

We understand your antipathy for Trump; however, the information comes from ICE. It's possible for people to lie about DNA results. However, it's very unlikely that Donald Trump would conceive of such a scheme and order DHS/ICE to carry it out.

So setting aside your disillusionment with Trump, it appears that there is a significant amount of human trafficking going on, and much of our political establishment is a-okay with that. Trump says he's not okay with it. Maybe he's lying about his sentiments. The issue is that it is going on, and our political establishment and the big businesses that support it can no longer be relied upon to do the right thing without tremendous pressure from the populace--and electing people like Trump to office. Many of our establishment politicians still don't seem to get why nobody likes them, and why trashing Trump does not make them more likable. It's a nearly global phenomenon now, so it is not limited in any way to Donald Trump.
#15006455
@blackjack21 @Hong Wu

Most of these immigrants just want a better life and aren't interested in breaking our laws plus the threat to life is very real for some of these migrants coming to the United States. And besides, it's AMERICAN money spent on drugs that is funding these drug cartels and criminal gangs who have such a massive stranglehold on these impoverished communities in Central America. So it's AMERICAN money that is playing a big role in driving this migrants to the United States.

And yes, if I faced the choice between being killed by a criminal gang or leaving I might decide to very well leave. We haven't walked a mile in these particular migrant shoes. Here is an excellent link that provides an explanation on how "illegal" immigrants are pay a lot of money into our tax system: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-d ... explainer/

Here is another link that busts some of the myths surrounding these migrants coming to the United States. One of the BIG FACTS is that these immigrants pay more into our system than they take out in government benefits: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/ma ... -s-economy
#15006553
Politics_Observer wrote:@blackjack21 @Hong Wu

Most of these immigrants just want a better life and aren't interested in breaking our laws plus the threat to life is very real for some of these migrants coming to the United States. And besides, it's AMERICAN money spent on drugs that is funding these drug cartels and criminal gangs who have such a massive stranglehold on these impoverished communities in Central America. So it's AMERICAN money that is playing a big role in driving this migrants to the United States.

And yes, if I faced the choice between being killed by a criminal gang or leaving I might decide to very well leave. We haven't walked a mile in these particular migrant shoes. Here is an excellent link that provides an explanation on how "illegal" immigrants are pay a lot of money into our tax system: https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-d ... explainer/

Here is another link that busts some of the myths surrounding these migrants coming to the United States. One of the BIG FACTS is that these immigrants pay more into our system than they take out in government benefits: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/ma ... -s-economy


You don't understand. They are brown, and Trump makes me feel happy when he uses the power of the most powerful government on Earth to target people on the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder. I voted for the cruelty, it's what I wanted.
#15006573
Politics_Observer wrote:
it's AMERICAN money spent on drugs that is funding these drug cartels and criminal gangs who have such a massive stranglehold on these impoverished communities in Central America. So it's AMERICAN money that is playing a big role in driving this migrants to the United States.


Legalizing drugs would drastically reduce mass migration from latin america, supporting social democracy down there would end it. Wingnuts are just going to have decide what's more important to them, their failed social and foreign policies that are driving mass immigration or their place in the pecking order of American culture and politics.
#15006608
@Sivad @SpecialOlympian

And that's part of the problem. Cruelty to put them "brown people back in there place." And you would think our policy makers would try and support democracy and strong economies down there but I guess for whatever reason they don't. God only knows why. I don't know. I think they're idiots to be honest. And it's AMERICAN money from buying drugs that is fueling the problem down there.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 22 May 2019 03:56, edited 1 time in total.

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