[B0ycey]

As I have previously stated, the Lib Dems are the Trash Bin, for which disaffected voters put their votes in, there is nothing more to their position than that & anyone reading more into it is just dreaming.

If The Brexit Party isn't a Trash Bin vote, I don't know what is. I doubt Farage could rely on either Labour or Tory votes in a general election although Lib Dems are an established party with actual policies. If their upward trend continues they may well be the biggest party the next election so just like always, wrong again Nonsense.

[SolarCross]

This is a victory for Europe. The turnout was about 51%, up from 43% the last time, and even though the center-right EEP and center-left S&D lost some votes, the liberal ALDE and the Greens gained massively. Together the 4 groups at the center are expected to get 505 of the 751 seats in the European parliament. The populist far-right failed to perform. European politics is the politics of the center. The extremists cannot takeover European politics.

Aren't the Greens extremists? Also "liberals" these days seem pretty extreme especially in the US though I guess the ALDE are not that kind of "liberal".

[Prosthetic Conscience]

There are now more MEPs for South East England called Alexandra Phillips than Conservatives ...



Not a mistake - Brexit and Greens really did have 2 people with the same name on their lists.

Aren't the Greens extremists? Also "liberals" these days seem pretty extreme especially in the US though I guess the ALDE are not that kind of "liberal".

No, they're not extremists. They have an overwhelming interest in saving the environment, but that's pretty mainstream, really. Hell, I live there. Perhaps you do too.

Nor, for that matter, are American liberals "extreme". They tend to support policies that wouldn't have looked out of place in a 1950s Republican manifesto.

[noemon]

But it's also a victory for Brexit despite the doom and gloom some people are forecasting. Farage winning more votes is a clear victory.

Plus Boris Johnson is almost certain to win the leadership.

These elections forced Jeremy Corbyn to openly support a second referendum and resurrected the Lib Dem party from the dead. Currently you have 1 major party openly supporting a second referendum and the Lib-Dems also becoming a major party due to their anti-Brexit rhetoric. Before these elections you had no major party supporting a second referendum and the Lib Dems were being ignored as irrelevant. Now you have 2 significantly large political forces openly supporting it.

Also, the gains made by the Greens and the Lib Dems are far greater(almost triple in fact) than the gains made by Farage/UKIP since the previous EU elections.

Farage/Ukip increased their share of the vote by 8.3% which is not that significant when one considers the 24.3% lost by the Tories and Labour combined as well as riding on the back of Brexit.

While the Greens and Lib Dems(both explicitly anti-Brexit) increased their share of the vote by 18.9% + 3.4% = 22.3% if one accounts for anti-Brexit Change UK on top of that.

And if one adds the 1.2% SNP increase as well that brings the total to a whopping 23.5% increase for explicitly anti-Brexit parties.

It seems that the entire % lost by the Tories and Labour combined has gone into openly anti-Brexit parties.

Previous EU Election Aggregate Result:

Greens/LibDems

13.5% -> 32.4% 18.9%

UKIP/Farage

26.6% -> 34.9% 8.3%

UK (99% counted):

BoJo will most likely refuse to become Tory leader at this juncture because Brexit has not been resolved and early elections have not been called. BoJo is an idiot but not enough of an idiot to commit political suicide by becoming captain of a sinking ship. My bet is that irrelevant political lightweights of the same kind as Theresa will take over during this transitional period so that they can be disposed of without much cost to the party and the main party heavy-weights. People like Dominic Raab or Leadsom. The Tories are now in open-crisis mode and it remains to be seen whether they will choose to go down for full Brexit, for anti-Brexit or for sitting quietly in a corner and letting someone else deal with Brexit by calling early elections. At this point I would bet that they are more likely to go with option 3, so that they can recuperate and plan for the next elections. Them sitting on the lime-light seems to be making things a lot worse for them and regardless which way they will go, they will be destroyed as a political force as one or both of their wings(far-right and centre) will abandon them. Their far-right wing has already abandoned them in favour of Farage so it remains to be seen on whether they will try to earn them back by going full far-right retard or whether they will focus on their centre wing so that they do not lose them too to the Lib-Dems and thus evaporate entirely.

[Beren]

The far-right/Eurosceptics couldn't break through and the EU election was a thing for the first time, which is good.

In the UK Labour will have to pledge to a second referendum, I suppose.

In France Macron is still a probable winner in 2022, I guess. Did the Yellow Vests manage to delegate any MEPs?

In Hungary the biggest news is that ALDE got two MEPs from Hungary while far-right Jobbik lost two of them (so they got only one), meanwhile, the Greens collapsed and former PM Ferenc Gyurcsány's Democratic Coalition got four seats and became the leading opposition party.

[SolarCross]

No, they're not extremists. They have an overwhelming interest in saving the environment, but that's pretty mainstream, really. Hell, I live there. Perhaps you do too.

In fairness it is all relative. I just have a hard time considering half-starved hippy vegans the mainstream but from their perspective it is everyone else that is weird I suppose.

Nor, for that matter, are American liberals "extreme". They tend to support policies that wouldn't have looked out of place in a 1950s Republican manifesto.

A few policies maybe but some are definitely pretty extreme and the rhetoric is insane. Maybe you could say every political affiliation has its noisy extremist minority that makes the rest look bad but I am not sure it is such a minority anymore for the "liberals" of the US. I do suppose it is just a fad that will pass in a generation or so. We are at peak Bezmenov perhaps.

[Reichstraten]

Besides France and Italy, the ENV (right-wing populists) is a failure.

[Ter]

Besides France and Italy, the ENV (right-wing populists) is a failure.

Does it make you feel better by spinning the result ?
France and Italy are among the biggest countries in the EU.
And you forgot to mention the good results of populist parties in a number of other countries like Finland, Belgium, Sweden, Hungary, Poland and so on.
The mood has shifted away from the globalists/federalists.

[Reichstraten]

The mood has shifted away from the globalists/federalists.

No, that doesn't shed light on why the Liberals and Greens won a lot of seats.
The mood has shifted away from the moderate centre to both eurosceptics and pro-EU parties.
The media just prefer to talk about the eurosceptics all the time.

[blackjack21]

This post is hilarious as it's quite evident that you cannot post anything without adding a whinging disclaimer of what poor victims the far-right are. This victimisation of the far-right is becoming more and more cringe-worthy. But all this crying is fake.

Keep in mind, all of this is happening in your head. I never made any disclaimers or said that Eurosceptics were "victims". I said the media is doing its level best to spin huge gains for Eurosceptic parties as a big win for the Green party and a huge loss for UKIP (Nigel Farage's former party). Trying to interpolate emotional states into what people say in text is a fools errand.

European and British media have been posting about Farage, Le Pen, La Lega in Italy, Orban and Poland for weeks and have all recognised and reported those gains not just from last night but weeks ago.

The American media doesn't. The American media is almost acting as if Europe didn't exist.

The major upset that no-one predicted and no-one reported is in fact the astronomic rise of the Green Parties across Europe.

It was debated right here on PoFo before the election. Again, it was clear to people on PoFo, but it was not predicted or reported by the media, because the media didn't want that to happen. In the UK, they wanted a victory for Labor. Remainers voted for the Green party--something discussed here on PoFo.

Second, Kurtz and New Democracy are bog standard conservatives

Kurz just got bounced: Austrian chancellor Sebastian Kurz ousted in no-confidence vote

Who exactly organised the sting on the far-right remains the subject of fevered speculation in both Austria and Germany. Media reports have identified the Viennese lawyer Ramin Mirfakhrai as the middleman who put the FPÖ politicians in touch with the purported heiress.

Mirfakhrai confirmed his involvement in a written statement, but did not reveal any further participants, merely describing the sting as a “civil society-driven project in which investigative-journalistic approaches were taken”.

Spiegel and Süddeutsche have refused to comment on the video’s origins in order to protect their sources. Strache has called the video “a honey trap stage-managed by intelligence agencies”, but also alluded to a controversial Israeli spin doctor with links to Austria’s centre-left Social Democratic party (SPÖ) and a German satirist, Jan Böhmermann.

Seems he wasn't as lucky as Trump. However, it is getting clearer that deep state actors are a problem for politicians not towing the globalist line.

same as Merkel's party which most of you guys consider leftist

Merkel is dangerously globalist, not leftist. There's obviously a significant difference.

if I were in Greece I would have voted for New Democracy for example as did most of my family. These people have nothing to do with the other bunch you associated them with

Get used to it. They get conflated in the US media all the time, and I'm sure it won't be long before it's a common occurrence in the EU media. After all, what on Earth do Nazis and the Republican party have in common? Evangelical Christianity? Capitalism?

silly-fascist Tommy boy who's your hero and got humiliated in these elections. As did Sargon of Akkad as well.

UKIP got sidelined by Nigel Farage and the Brexit party, and it was a brilliant move on his part. By forming a new party late in the electoral cycle, the establishment didn't have time to trash its name and standing. Tommy Robinson and Sargon of Akkad are not exactly politicians. Maybe they will be at some point. Tommy Robinson is what Barack Obama might call a "community organizer," a polite term for shit disturber. I like that about Tommy Robinson, but it doesn't mean I pin my hopes on him in any way, but rather that he exposes the people I want exposed. Nigel didn't want the built-in bad press that they engender, so he sidestepped them. It was a tactical move that was part of his larger strategy, and executed brilliantly.

Major parties have been punished and less mainstream parties have picked up their votes both on the left and the right.

Why are they being punished noemon?

This is a trend we have been witnessing almost in every single EU election as people are more confident to vote less mainstream parties than in national elections where they return back to their bases. In fact Farage, Le Pen and many others would not even exist as political parties if it were not for the European elections as these parties historically only managed to get elected in the European elections alone. Nationalists have stolen votes from bog standard conservatives while Green parties and Liberal parties have stolen votes from Labour-Left parties. The divide has not moved a single inch further to the right or left, though.

It's not a right vs. left dynamic. It's globalist versus nationalist, and nationalist parties are winning in key countries. Brexit appears imminent, while globalist parties are no longer eminent.

This is a victory for Europe.

The UK leaving the EU is a victory for Europe? Will you say the same for France and Italy? National Rally and League won. The EU will be quite a different place if France or Italy leave. Their sentiment is years behind the UK, but they are heading in the same direction now.

European politics is the politics of the center. The extremists cannot takeover European politics.

Taking over European politics is not the objective. Leaving the EU is the objective.

But it's also a victory for Brexit despite the doom and gloom some people are forecasting.

That's just standard media psyops on behalf of globalists. They are in a state of shock, but they have been since 2016.

If The Brexit Party isn't a Trash Bin vote, I don't know what is.

It's the latter.

They have an overwhelming interest in saving the environment, but that's pretty mainstream, really.

Environmentalism is a globalist position that involves putting the screws to working classes in the US and Europe while maintaining massive trade deficits with China and giving them all sorts of leeway on environmental degradation such that China is the world's worst polluter and the Greens are on board with that. Some of the people can be fooled all of the time. The Gilets Jaunes movement illustrates the limitations of what the Green party can do.

Nor, for that matter, are American liberals "extreme". They tend to support policies that wouldn't have looked out of place in a 1950s Republican manifesto.

Transgender bathrooms, new sets of gender non-binary pronouns, legal sanctions for not complying? Not exactly 1950s Republicanism...

and the Lib-Dems also becoming a major party due to their anti-Brexit rhetoric.

They were the only remainers that would openly say so. The electorate appreciates a little candor.

BoJo is an idiot but not enough of an idiot to commit political suicide by becoming captain of a sinking ship.

Refusing leadership is also political suicide. Europe will only deal reasonably with the UK post-Brexit. They have to try to make Brexit painful for the UK.

The far-right/Eurosceptics couldn't break through and the EU election was a thing for the first time, which is good.

Breaking through only needs to happen on a national level, and it did in the UK, France and Italy.

I just have a hard time considering half-starved hippy vegans the mainstream but from their perspective it is everyone else that is weird I suppose.

They have a few significant problems: first, they are either economically comfortable (virtue signalling) or disinterested in bourgeois lifestyle (hippies); second, being copacetic with massive trade deficits with huge polluting nations is not consistent with their stated philosophy (hypocritical) nor is it something blue collar voters find tolerable (popular). So I think their upside is limited.

Besides France and Italy, the ENV (right-wing populists) is a failure.

What becomes of the EU if France or Italy leaves? It's not about left wing versus right wing. It's about globalism versus nationalism.

France and Italy are among the biggest countries in the EU.

True, but more importantly economically. With Britain leaving, the EU economy shrinks considerably. If France or Italy leaves, it starts looking more like a German empire, which is essentially what it has become. Empires generally don't last due to significant internal contradictions. I expect the same fate for the EU in the long term.

[Nonsense]

:lol:

If The Brexit Party isn't a Trash Bin vote, I don't know what is. I doubt Farage could rely on either Labour or Tory votes in a general election although Lib Dems are an established party with actual policies. If their upward trend continues they may well be the biggest party the next election so just like always, wrong again Nonsense.

If what you say was true(it isn't of course)then it's an awfully large Trash Bin then BOycey.

FARAGE's BREXIT Party wouldn't be needing Labour or Tory voters support,because voters who would normally support those two parties, would no longer label themselves as Labour or Tory & they would be free floating voters able to cast their votes where they wish.

That is how a real vibrant democracy works, not from traditional blind loyalty, or because the family have 'always' voted this or that way.

[Beren]

Breaking through only needs to happen on a national level, and it did in the UK, France and Italy.

Brexit is rather agonising in the UK and there's no breakthrough in France, and Salvini's European ambitions are dead.

This election was a historic event and has stabilised the EU nonetheless and the results should be a disappointment to populists and Eurosceptics. The pure fact it took place and was taken seriously in the UK too is a win in and of itself for the EU and in my opinion the results are pro- rather than anti-EU as well.

[B0ycey]

If what you say was true(it isn't of course)then it's an awfully large Trash Bin then BOycey.

So remainers are throwing away their votes but leavers aren't? This EU election was a statement from the electorate from both sides of the divide and remain won. They may have split the vote between parties when leavers only had The Brexit Party (and I suppose UKIP) to vote for, but where Lib Dems have a real opportunity to keep hold of their gains that they are getting from the public, I can't see Farage keeping hardly any of his in Labour heartlands during a election campaign because he is a Tory in Brexit clothing.

FARAGE's BREXIT Party wouldn't be needing Labour or Tory voters support,because voters who would normally support those two parties, would no longer label themselves as Labour or Tory & they would be free floating voters able to cast their votes where they wish.

That is how a real vibrant democracy works, not from traditional blind loyalty, or because the family have 'always' voted this or that way.

The Brexit Party only have one policy. Leave the EU. They are not an established party like the Lib Dems. Only hardcore Brexiteers would vote for a one trick party in a general election as history had proven with UKIP.

[Nonsense]

The far-right/Eurosceptics couldn't break through and the EU election was a thing for the first time, which is good.

In the UK Labour will have to pledge to a second referendum, I suppose.

.

I would say that, were Labour to even think of such a thing, particularly with a 'remain' option, they will, (I confidently predict)lose the general election & even just proposing a simple 'confirmatory' referendum would be a simple replay of the post 2016 parliamentary sabotaging of the 2016 referendum result.

The country will not stand for it, either of the two main party's would really be facing an existential crisis, the Tories for their failure to implement BREXIT & Labour for their contribution to sabotaging it.

In such a scenario, thge unthinkable would happen, the BREXIT Party would win the next election & the Lib Dems would be the main opposition.

The Tories, along with Labour would be in terminal decline as 'minor' opposition parties & completely irrelevent to the political discourse in that brave new world of U.K life.

The reasonbs that Labour give for opposing leave, is bogus & dishonest.

It's bogus, because it flies in the face of their manifesto promise to honor the 2016 referendum result , along with their stated objective's to 'protect' jobs , blah,blah,blah, when the fact is, their unremitting denial of acceptance of any WA, is in direct contrast to the manifesto commitment to honour the result.

Labour have made a rod for their own back that is going to jeopardise their election prospects, which is equal to the Tories cardinal error of not achieving a BREXIT by 29 March 2019.

[Beren]

were Labour to even think of such a thing

It's already happened: viewtopic.php?p=15007866#p15007866

[Nonsense]

So remainers are throwing away their votes but leavers aren't? This EU election was a statement from the electorate from both sides of the divide and remain won. They may have split the vote between parties when leavers only had The Brexit Party (and I suppose UKIP) to vote for, but where Lib Dems have a real opportunity to keep hold of their gains that they are getting from the public, I can't see Farage keeping hardly any of his in Labour heartlands during a election campaign because he is a Tory in Brexit clothing.



The Brexit Party only have one policy. Leave the EU. They are not an established party like the Lib Dems. Only hardcore Brexiteers would vote for a one trick party in a general election as history had proven with UKIP.

No, I never said that, I said that disaffected voters were using the Lib Dems as a Trash Bin for their votes, that's not throwing them away because their votes are still being utilised, were they defaced or whatever, that would be throwing them away.

The BREXIT Party won the euro election in this country, no doubts on that score, they simply won the largest share of the vote than any other party, from a relatively low turnout.

Roughly speaking, they had twice the Lib Dem total, three times the Labour total, the Tories, well, a pifling 10% of the vote share is hardly worth commenting on & the clowns that formed a new party after defecting from their elected constituency parties(Change U,K) are just a footnote in political history in this country.

It's already happened: viewtopic.php?p=15007866#p15007866

I did see that on the news,but of course, there was little detail, that's where the devil is,should it include 'remain' as an option,it will be seen as an attempt at revoking A50, which is what Labour intends, thus confirming the dishonesty in the way that they have engaged with parliament to sabotage the 2016 vote.

[Beren]

Labour doesn't have a choice, @Nonsense, they have to join the coalition behind Remain with a second-referendum-on-any-deal approach.

[B0ycey]

No, I never said that, I said that disaffected voters were using the Lib Dems as a Trash Bin for their votes, that's not throwing them away because their votes are still being utilised, were they defaced or whatever, that would be throwing them away.

I don't know what the fuck you are on about. The disaffected voters would have more likely not voted at all then vote Lib Dems. The Lib Dems are the remain vote. Thinking otherwise makes you sound dumb.

The BREXIT Party won the euro election in this country, no doubts on that score, they simply won the largest share of the vote than any other party, from a relatively low turnout.

They won because the leave vote didn't split. Something I commented would happen a few weeks back when I thought leavers would claim victory when the reality is Remain got far more votes. And you have proven me right.

Roughly speaking, they had twice the Lib Dem total, three times the Labour total, the Tories, well, a pifling 10% of the vote share is hardly worth commenting on & the clowns that formed a new party after defecting from their elected constituency parties(Change U,K) are just a footnote in political history in this country.

If 20.3% times two equals 31.6% sure.

Lib Dems including the Greens have more votes than the Brexit party. Put all the other remain parties in the equation and Remain won comfortably yesterday. Your foresight and predictions are rubbish. Even Labour know that the remain vote is their target audience now and once BoJo had taken us out the EU and the economy crashes, Corbyn will discover that this was the correct call to take now when the next general election comes calling.

[Nonsense]

Labour doesn't have a choice, @Nonsense, they have to join the coalition behind Remain with a second-referendum-on-any-deal approach.

Well, like the Tories, they are divided, so by sitting on the fence, enabled CORBYN to claim some false degree of party unity after the MP's that left the party probably spooked him.
I accept that there is pressure on him to get off the fence & to get on the 'remain' platform.

The trouble with doing so, is that it flies in the face of the 2016 referendum result to leave the E.U & the manifesto that said that they would honour that result.

So, by getting on to the 'remain' side, he & Labour are simply acknowledging the dishonesty of their tactics in parliament since 2016.

It's that deceitfulness that Tom WATSON, John McDonald , Emily THORNBERRY et al, have voiced since the euro results have hit home, when demanding another referendum.

It makes it look pretty silly really, when we have had two proxy 'referendums' since 2016, in the form of the 'Local' & now the 'euro election' results that have effectively resulted in 'leavers' winning in both cases.

The next 'trial-by-jury' will be the next general election when judgement day arrives for the parties & their 'remainer' MP's.

[Beren]

Well, like the Tories, they are divided, so by sitting on the fence, enabled CORBYN to claim some false degree of party unity

I think those who voted for Labour in this election are hardcore Corbynites regardless of his stance on Brexit and party unity can be restored if he compromises on Brexit. He could even be leader of the whole Remain coalition against BoJo and no deal that way. As a matter of fact he rather must be.