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#15011583
Nice try Steve. Wave all the flags you want to. My service started during Vietnam and ended after Gulf one. My lifelong health care was part of the deal the government made with me. Serve 20 years and pay no more. Of course they backed out of part of that deal and so we pay for our health care now. Just not very much.

And I am not bad mouthing the VA. It is nice fallback for veterans. It is NOT universal coverage for veterans like the retired coverage is. Or like medicare or medicaid is. So save the drum beating for someone else.

Politics Observer has the position I truly appreciate. He is grateful for the coverage our government has given us and so am I. He and I both realize that there are many wonderful Americans, some of them veterans, who die because they can't afford health care. And this is an avoidable shame.

For the price per person we pay in the US for health care, if we provided the amazing level of care that a country like France provides, for every person citizen or not, and have enough money left over to give every person in the US free limousine rides to their appointments and government expense and cover dental and drugs.

Whining like special snowflakes because someone else gets basic care, saving us all money, because we get pinged a little on our taxes is just stupid. If Steve is so all-fired worried about those people who can't afford health care on what they are being paid to work then he ought to be looking at the minimum wage, the cost of insurance, and all kinds of shit and not trying to blame undocumented aliens for a problem that existed before they got here and that would not get one bit better if they left.
#15011585
@Drlee

Amen to that Drlee!

@BigSteve

You are not going to like my answer Steve, but I am going to be honest with you. I think you are, like many Trump supporters, a racist bigot who also don't give a damn about the poor, many of whom work very hard for very little and get no help at all. Trump is a massive dishonor and disgrace to this country and has no business being in the White House let alone near a veterans cemetery. He needs to be in prison as Pelosi said. That's where Trump belongs: in prison and getting some kind of therapy. Not at the White House. He has damaged this country greatly by appealing to the prejudices, racism and fears of many white Americans. And that's why he got elected: by appealing to the racism, prejudices and fears of many white Americans. He didn't have any good policy or leadership skills at all. Not in the least bit. You remember a lot of immigrants who don't even have US citizenship are serving in our armed forces risking their lives for us. They are good people and immigrants are human beings like you and me.
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 11 Jun 2019 22:00, edited 2 times in total.
#15011586
The Trump administration's political genius continues to amaze me if it's true that Mexico agreed to all of this before the tariff threat. Obviously they would not have actually done it under normal circumstances because they have never done so before, the threat of tariffs however if combined with the tacit existence of an already in place but unlikely to be enforced agreement would allow the Mexican administration to save face when they fold. Truly the "art of the deal'.
#15011587
@Hong Wu

Trump is a narcissistic con man no different than many infamous cult leaders we have seen that led their followers to their doom via manipulation. People like Trump are not geniuses or true leaders. They are con men.
#15011588
BigSteve wrote:I'm proposing not taxing hard working Americans to provide coverage for people who shouldn't be here...


You have proposed many things.

You're choosing to be ignorant and stupid by repeatedly bringing up skin color. I don't care what color they are. I care about what they do...


Sure. Considering how you call them vermin and would allow them to die, I find it hard to believe you have the moral high ground.

The point is that no one is going to deport them all. It is not economically viable.

And since that is the case, we might as well keep these hardworking undocumented workers healthy.

So, lemme' get this straight: You can claim that it's not unfair, and offer nothing to explain why, but you expect me to explain (again) why I think it is?


So far, the only argument you have made is that taxing, as a system of wealth redistribution, is unfair.

I disagree. I think it is a useful harm reduction policy until we abolish capitalism entirely. It partly alleviates some of the inherent unfairness of a system where people get more rights and power as they accrue more wealth.

So, unless you can show your version of fair is more fair than my version, we are at an impasse.

It fails the people who would provide it for themselves and their families if they could afford it...


I believe that others have shown you how the government already subsidises these people, helping them get insurance they would not otherwise be able to afford.

You're only "supposed" to buy health insurance if you want health insurance. Period. A "capitalist" would understand that you don't force someone to buy something they don't need or want.


Actually, capitalists understand that if you can get the state to force people to buy their product, they can make more money.

Which is what happened.

Plenty of people out there would buy health coverage for themselves if they could afford it. But they can't, which means they sure as :D can't afford to be taxed so it can be provided to someone else...


I believe that others have shown you how the government already subsidises these people, helping them get insurance they would not otherwise be able to afford.

One needn't be an SJW to have a sense or right and wrong...


So that is a "yes"?

That's not the primary consideration here. The primary consideration is forcing someone to pay for something for someone else. Like the hardworking undocumented workers who are sucking off the government, the folks who are going to be taxed don't have health insurance. either. Why should hardworking undocumented workers get it and not them? There's no provision in the proposal for that...


I believe that others have shown you how the government already subsidises these people, helping them get insurance they would not otherwise be able to afford.

Anyway, at this point, I will assume you agree that it is a good idea from a medical viewpoint.

Such profound ignorance you display.

By stupidly trying to make this about race, all you do is prove that you don't have a valid argument based on facts. As such, I'm done with you.

You're dismissed...


So we agree that it makes sense from a medical perspective.

You have not disagreed with my claim that a universal public health care program would be even less expensive.

You have no rebuttal to the point that the prison system does not have the required number of slaves/inmates.

Anything else?
#15011597
Politics_Observer wrote:@Hong Wu

Trump is a narcissistic con man no different than many infamous cult leaders we have seen that led their followers to their doom via manipulation. People like Trump are not geniuses or true leaders. They are con men.

You call it a con, I call it setting oneself and their country up for a win. In the long run, everyone benefits from stable immigration controls.
#15011598
Drlee wrote:If Steve is so all-fired worried about those people who can't afford health care on what they are being paid to work then he ought to be looking at the minimum wage, the cost of insurance, and all kinds of shit and not trying to blame undocumented aliens for a problem that existed before they got here and that would not get one bit better if they left.


I don't blame them for a problem which already existed. I just don't see the need to exacerbate it.

If someone is going to get taxed more to pay for coverage for illegal aliens, then it stands to reason that they wouldn't get taxed more to pay for that coverage if the illegals weren't here. So, yeah, it would improve...
#15011601
Politics_Observer wrote:You are not going to like my answer Steve, but I am going to be honest with you. I think you are, like many Trump supporters, a racist bigot who also don't give a damn about the poor, many of whom work very hard for very little and get no help at all.


Well, then I suppose you can [deleted]. I thought you might be one of the reasonable ones, but you're nothing more than another [deleted] lib who hates Trumps so much that you have some ignorant need to believe the worst about someone who voted for him.

I've said, countless times, that I don't give a flying fuck what someone's skin color is. Anyone who suggests I do is a fucking idiot.

Do I give a damn about the poor? Ask my accountant, who makes sure all of my charitable contributions are in order come tax time. I haven't always been in the financial position I am now. So, talk to the local youth services group which, every Christmas, sees a sizable donation from me to make sure local kids don't go without under their Christmas tree. I know, all too well, what it's like to do without. I'm confident that my annual charitable donations amount to more than you make in a year, so spare me your "don't give a damn about the poor" bullshit.

I can't help everyone, but I help who I can...

Trump is a massive dishonor and disgrace to this country and has no business being in the White House let alone near a veterans cemetery. He needs to be in prison as Pelosi said. That's where Trump belongs: in prison and getting some kind of therapy. Not at the White House. He has damaged this country greatly by appealing to the prejudices, racism and fears of many white Americans. And that's why he got elected: by appealing to the racism, prejudices and fears of many white Americans.


[deleted] You're no better than someone who looks at a black guy and assumes he's a criminal. You look at a Trump supporter and assume that he's a racist. How spectacularly narrow minded of you.

And prison? For what? Feel free to take your time, because none of your [deleted] liberal friends have proven smart enough to answer that, either...

He didn't have any good policy or leadership skills at all. Not in the least bit.


If you want to know why Donald Trump is President, all you have to do is look at Hillary Clinton. Good, decent Americans didn't want that lying piece of shit, who violated the espionage act while serving as Secretary of State, as President. Saying Trump should be in prison is laughable. Violating the espionage act during time of war is punishable by death. That Hillary Clinton wasn't hanged is offensive to anyone with even the slightest sense of decency.

Donald Trump is not the cause of the divide in this country. He's the result of it. Barack Obama did his level best to destroy everything good about this country, and Clinton was going to see that continue. The Republicans could've run my neighbor with the twitch, who wears his pajamas all day, and Clinton would've lost...

You remember a lot of immigrants who don't even have US citizenship are serving in our armed forces risking their lives for us. They are good people and immigrants are human beings like you and me.


I proudly served with many of them and, you know what? Every fucking one of them came to the United States LEGALLY. I have no problem, at all, with "immigrants". I have a very big problem with "ILLEGAL immigrants". Until you and your fellow brain trusts on the left wrap your heads around that, the problem of illegal immigration will never be solved. It will only be dealt with, and in ways that you and the rest of the foul left won't like...

[mod note: the deleted insults crossed the line - let's try to not make this personal. Prosthetic Conscience]
Last edited by BigSteve on 11 Jun 2019 23:54, edited 1 time in total.
#15011602
Pants-of-dog wrote:You have not disagreed with my claim that a universal public health care program would be even less expensive.

You have no rebuttal to the point that the prison system does not have the required number of slaves/inmates.



I didn't disagree or rebut your claims because they're ignorant, and because you're unworthy of my time...
#15011603
BigSteve wrote:I disn;t disagree or rebut your claims because they're ignorant, and because you're not worth my time...


Most people stop debating with POD pretty quickly, BS. He tends to play semantics while changing his goalposts pretty often...

Btw, I used to be a Socialist of the Old Left variety (not sure human nature makes it possible or workable for very long, but i'm back and forth on that), and these modern fake ''Leftists'' and Liberals truly disgust me, so if you want to discuss these matters without the slightest contamination by identity politics and all that rot I'd be happy to oblige.
#15011606
I proudly served with many of them and, you know what? Every fucking one of them came to the United States LEGALLY.


Ah. No. No they didn't. There are about 900 dreamers on active duty as we speak. There was an official program in 2009 allowing certain undocumented aliens to join the military and share their badly needed language skills.

But you don't hear the administration talking about stories like those of Jose Gutierrez, who fled Guatemalan poverty as a teenage orphan, hopping freight trains for the 2,000-mile journey to America. A tall and quiet boy described as extremely intelligent, Gutierrez lived in a series of group homes in America or with foster families as he learned English, finished high school and, at 18, became a legal resident. He joined the Marine Corps after 9/11, was part of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, and left everything he brought to his new country on a battlefield there — killed in action on March 21, 2003.


Vermin?
#15011607
BigSteve wrote:I didn't disagree or rebut your claims because they're ignorant, and because you're unworthy of my time...


And yet you are unable to show how my claims are ignorant.

Anyway, this seems to be a proposal to extend a public insurance system that already exists and already serves low income California residents. The number of people covered will go from 13.3 million to 13.4 million.

This coverage only extends to hardworking undocumented worker adults between ages 19 and 25.
#15011608
That's right POD. This is another typical right wing witch hunt.

But Big Steve. I am with you bro. This terrible program to fund these Illegal young people so they be safe and not use the far more expensive emergency room is expensive. It will utterly destroy those poor working 'Mericans who have to pay for your "vermin". It is a game changer for the residents of the "cesspool" California. The program is projected to cost each Californian....wait for it.....this is going to sting....$2.48 per year. That's right. Less than the cost of a beer.

Now you should really get up on your high horse when you hear this....California is scheduled to have a budget surplus of $30 billion. See what those big spending "liberals" did. The got stuff and actually paid for it. Wouldn't it be nice if the current Republicans would do that? But no. They have chalked up the largest deficit in US history. Here's an idea for you Steve. Why not get California to loan Trump the money for his wall?
#15011624
BigSteve wrote:you're unworthy of my time...

BigSteve wrote:you're nothing more than another bed-wetting lib

BigSteve wrote:you have some ignorant need

BigSteve wrote: I don't give a flying fuck

BigSteve wrote:is a fucking idiot.

BigSteve wrote:You're pretty pathetic

BigSteve wrote:you can piss off and die.

BigSteve wrote:Ask my accountant
:eek:
BigSteve wrote:your idiot liberal friends

BigSteve wrote:lying piece of shit


Steverinio ……...you are the MAN. A brilliant raconteur, a successful and wealthy and generous citizen. A self made man and over all terrific guy.

Steve …. I love you man ……………..I love you big guy.
#15011642
BigSteve wrote:Ask my accountant

Why would a mall cop need an accountant?

Average salary : $25,041*

Many of the entry level jobs in mall security are part-time hourly positions that require little training or education. The average salary is around $25,000, meaning the starting salaries are likely to be even lower than that.


* Source: simplyhired.com



:?:
#15011665
Drlee wrote:Ah. No. No they didn't. There are about 900 dreamers on active duty as we speak.


Super.

I retired in 2001.

The immigrants I served with, mostly Filippino, were in the United States legally. Please don't pretend that you're smart enough to know anything about my experiences...
#15011666
ingliz wrote:Why would a mall cop need an accountant?

Average salary : $25,041*

Many of the entry level jobs in mall security are part-time hourly positions that require little training or education. The average salary is around $25,000, meaning the starting salaries are likely to be even lower than that.


* Source: simplyhired.com



Your jealousy is palpable.

Maybe if you'd get off your dead ass and actually work, you can have nice things, too. Or, I guess you can continue to live in your Mom's basement.

Doesn't matter to me...
#15011694
Please don't pretend that you're smart enough to know anything about my experiences...


I retired before you. Long. But then I don't really believe you served. I knew many navy people and not one of them would even think of being as insulting to others as you seem to revel in being. Service people are generally not pompous and blustering. They are certainly not inclined to disrespect people as a first course of action.

I served alongside real heroes. Mine was a generation of war veterans. One does not shoot of his mouth or act disrespectfully to people like that. It may not work out well at all. Simply put, people who have served in the military do not behave as you do or they are eliminated.

Maybe if you'd get off your dead ass and actually work, you can have nice things, too. Or, I guess you can continue to live in your Mom's basement.


You don't know Ingliz. He is older than you are. You don't know where he lives. Or how he behaves. But we who have posted here for a decade or more do and we are not inclined to see your insults as anything other than the reaction of someone who has been completely outclassed. Perhaps if you got to know some of the folks here you would realize that you can actually learn something from them. That is what grown ups do.

But my belief is that you are a parrot account and the mods just haven't figured it out yet.
#15011697
BigSteve wrote:Or, I guess you can continue to live in your Mom's basement.

What the ego repudiates is split off and placed in another.*

Maybe it's not my place to say but have you ever thought of trying therapy? It might help you manage your insecurity and feelings of vulnerability.


* Otto Fenichel, The Psychoanalytic Theory of Neurosis
#15011701
ingliz wrote:have you ever thought of trying therapy?


I have run into a lot of cases like this. They are not that rare. Encountered my first ones on the PS29 playground in grammar school. An identifying characteristic is total denial that they have any issues/problems whatsoever. That would undermine the basic foundation of their schtick.
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