What's your game plan? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Godstud
#15012428
I am currently in self-imposed exile from Alberta. I might come back and visit, but not sure of the reception I will get in a province that went "Full Retard" during the last provincial election.

I hope to start up a business in the Spring 2020, out of Edmonton, so I might need to take more interest in local politics.
#15012441
m21 wrote:The game plan is obviously to build a revolutionary party by intervening in the current class struggle and infusing socialist theory into left-wing mass movements. Also there is obviously no way you can stop this.


Why keep trying socialism when it has never worked?
What if some people do not want to be socialists?
#15012443
Julian658 wrote:Why keep trying socialism when it has never worked?


It has worked.

What if some people do not want to be socialists?


Many people do not want to be capitalists.

When this happens, capitalists usually shoot them, take over their government, imprison them, and a host of other things.

Since all of these things are apparently acceptable today, why would they bot be acceptable in some socialist future?
#15012450
Pants-of-dog wrote:Getting a job in the current system merely supports the status quo.


Communists if they had any intention of doing anything should organize together to create their own commune in western countries, and if it's successful it will grow and attract more people.

But of course most communists just sit on the internet and talk about theories that don't work in reality, especially without a repressive dictatorship to keep the smartest and most talented people from leaving. Communism doesn't work without that repressive dictatorship needed to keep the whole system from falling apart at the seems, give people freedom and it all goes to hell.
#15012456
Unthinking Majority wrote:Communists if they had any intention of doing anything should organize together to create their own commune in western countries, and if it's successful it will grow and attract more people.


Where would this take place?

Here in Canada, the only way to do this is to buy land. Buying land, of course, also supports the status quo. There is nothing radical or revolutionary about it. There is also the problem of laying claim to indigenous lands, if you are one of those Marxists that actually opposes colonialism.

Who would be able to do this?

Buying land is limited to those who can afford the capital investment. This excludes large portions of the working class. And then, you need someone who can take time off work to go and set it up. Most Marxists do not have that sort of free time.

And yet some do. There are probably many Marxist communes out there.

But of course most communists just sit on the internet and talk about theories that don't work in reality,


I think it depends on your milieu. When I think of a Marxist, I picture a Latino manual labourer because those are the Marxists I grew up with.

especially without a repressive dictatorship to keep the smartest and most talented people from leaving. Communism doesn't work without that repressive dictatorship needed to keep the whole system from falling apart at the seems, give people freedom and it all goes to hell.


This is not correct.
By Rich
#15012457
Godstud wrote:I am currently in self-imposed exile from Alberta. I might come back and visit, but not sure of the reception I will get in a province that went "Full Retard" during the last provincial election.

Yes it must be hard coming back from a country where liberty, democrat rights and free speech are so vigorously defended. Why don't you call out the Thai Royal family for the parasites they are? I'm happy to call out the British Royal family as worthless parasites.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15012470
@Rich What does anything I do have to do with the Royal family from anywhere?

You'd be fucking surprised at the freedoms you have in a country you are obviously ignorantly obvilious of.

Democracy? Check. It's as good as the US Plutocracy.

Freedom of Speech? No such thing. There are always limits.

So :lol: to your bullshit trolling. Weaksauce, as always.
#15012586
Pants-of-dog wrote:This is not correct.


In 2014, Cuba lifted the requirement for exit visas for Cubans to travel and/or leave the country. However, people who have high skills, education, talents etc like doctors and athletes etc still can't leave the country without Cuba's permission, and often still can't leave.

Why do you think that is? It's because many people with any skill, education, or talent that could make a lot more money in another country are going to leave a country that denies them that right and steals their money to give to the less skilled/educated/talented or to keep in their own coffers like the hypocrite Castro's do as they sleep in fine linens inside mansions on their own private islands.
#15012588
Unthinking Majority wrote:In 2014, Cuba lifted the requirement for exit visas for Cubans to travel and/or leave the country. However, people who have high skills, education, talents etc like doctors and athletes etc still can't leave the country without Cuba's permission, and often still can't leave.


And?

Legal restrictions on emigration and immigration exist in every country. Do you think everyone in the USA is allowed to get a passport?

Why do you think that is? It's because many people with any skill, education, or talent that could make a lot more money in another country are going to leave a country that denies them that right and steals their money to give to the less skilled/educated/talented or ...random ad hominems....


Not really.

It is for two reasons:

1. It is the Cuban people who have invested in these educated professionals, not the USA, so the USA should not profit from said investment. If you want to talk about taking the wealth of more deserving people, you should also look at how brain drain works.

2. Huge numbers of people also immigrate from developing capitalist countries. And this is simply due to economic opportunities.
#15012658
Pants-of-dog wrote:And?

Legal restrictions on emigration and immigration exist in every country. Do you think everyone in the USA is allowed to get a passport?



Not really.

It is for two reasons:

1. It is the Cuban people who have invested in these educated professionals, not the USA, so the USA should not profit from said investment. If you want to talk about taking the wealth of more deserving people, you should also look at how brain drain works.

2. Huge numbers of people also immigrate from developing capitalist countries. And this is simply due to economic opportunities.


Socialism can only exist with coercion and oppression in an authoritarian state. It is futile to defend such a system.
#15012696
Julian658 wrote:Socialism can only exist with coercion and oppression in an authoritarian state. It is futile to defend such a system.


I have no idea why you keep repeating this incorrect claim to me after I have shown you it was wrong.
#15012741
Pants-of-dog wrote:And?
Legal restrictions on emigration and immigration exist in every country. Do you think everyone in the USA is allowed to get a passport?


All US and all your fellow Canadian citizens have a right to get a passport, unless they have some pending criminal charges, have crazy criminal restrictions ie: on a terrorist watch list, etc.

All Canadian and US citizens have mobility rights, they have the right to leave and return to the country, unless of course they have serious criminal issues like above.

It is the Cuban people who have invested in these educated professionals, not the USA, so the USA should not profit from said investment. If you want to talk about taking the wealth of more deserving people, you should also look at how brain drain works.


Your theory about educational investment is also flawed, since athletes can't leave the country either, without consent. You might think differently if you had high ability and work ethic in Cuba & were subsidizing everyone else via your hard work while the mediocre, dumb, and lazy leached off of you. If you feel bad & want to give them your money, you're free to do so in a liberal democracy.

So what you're saying is that Cuban professionals, and anyone else seemed of high value to the state, are slaves to Cuba? You should look at how slavery and mobility rights work. How basic basic human rights work, as guaranteed in the UNDHR, US Bill of Rights, Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms. You and most other communists want to trade so-called "wage slavery" with "high ability" slavery.
#15012742
Fixing a country like the US is really easy. Communism is not required, nor would it be effective. The US just needs to implement the moderate level of social programs and wealth redistribution seen in most other liberal democracies in the West. That will dramatically improve US health outcomes, education, crime rates, poverty etc.

There's no such thing as "wage slavery". Every single person in a capitalist democratic country is free to open their own business and work for themselves if they want. They can be a one man show if they won't want to "wage slave" anyone else. The key point here is that everyone has a choice. Anything is possible with some hard work, perseverance, and making some good decisions. Liberty is a wonderful thing, ain't it?

Sure some people start off with a better head start than others. That's life, tough, it has been he case since the dawn of humanity. Stop feeling sorry for yourself, and take the cards you've been dealt and create a good life for yourself. The freedom for every single person to do this (or not do this) is a wonderful, wonderful thing. We are only slaves to our own decisions & actions in life.
#15012759
Unthinking Majority wrote:All US and all your fellow Canadian citizens have a right to get a passport, unless they have some pending criminal charges, have crazy criminal restrictions ie: on a terrorist watch list, etc.

All Canadian and US citizens have mobility rights, they have the right to leave and return to the country, unless of course they have serious criminal issues like above.


...or they owe child support, or they cannot afford the costs of a passport and travel, or they are homeless and do not have ID, or they are in jail for a minor drug offense, or on parole, et cetera.

Your theory about educational investment is also flawed, since athletes can't leave the country either, without consent.


Please provide evidence for this claim. Also, if you think athletes do not require investment, you are incorrect.

You might think differently if you had high ability and work ethic in Cuba & were subsidizing everyone else via your hard work while the mediocre, dumb, and lazy leached off of you. If you feel bad & want to give them your money, you're free to do so in a liberal democracy.


This is an interesting appeal to emotion.

So what you're saying is that Cuban professionals, and anyone else seemed of high value to the state, are slaves to Cuba? You should look at how slavery and mobility rights work. How basic basic human rights work, as guaranteed in the UNDHR, US Bill of Rights, Canadian Charter of Rights & Freedoms. You and most other communists want to trade so-called "wage slavery" with "high ability" slavery.


No, they are not slaves, since they are not required to work in their chosen profession at all if they want to do something else.

Anyway, what about other socialist governments that did not have emigration laws that were or are almost as strict as western immigration laws?

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