Anarchist/“Anti-Fascist” Attacks Detention Center - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15018335
We can add US News & World Report to the list of MSM(D) that have actually mentioned the attack, though it has even fewer details than any of the others and fails to mention that he described himself as an “anti-fascist.” No follow-up articles or opinion pieces about it from any of those that have already reported it that I can find, it looks like it’s already headed for the circular filing cabinet the MSM(D) reserves for stories that don’t fit its narrative.

Meanwhile, Andy Ngo—the journalist assaulted by AntiFA and sent to the hospital with a brain hemorrhage—has linked to AntiFA’s response to the firebomber’s claim to be AntiFA. Apparently, they’re fine with it. He also found video of Van Spronsen at an AntiFA rally in 2018.
#15018337
Doug64 wrote:No, I took your words to mean that the Border Patrol killed the children. That's what "at the hands of" means, after all, that the treatment, good or bad but usually bad, is caused by those it refers to. And you haven't offered any evidence that the Border Patrol killed any of them, and evidence that they didn't in two of the cases--they didn't cause the girl's congental heart defects, and they apparently didn't cause the boy's heart attack. So neither of the children died at the hands of the Border Patrol.


Let me know when you are done attacking the strawman and want to deal with the fact that your country is forcibly separating families, and sometimes the kids die while in the custody of US officials.

And that this is a rational reason for attacking a detention center.

@Kaiserschmarrn

Yes, I should said “in the custody of” to avoid this confusion.
#15018459
Another day ending, and the only new major media outlet I can see covering the story is the Daily Telegraph, running the AP story--a foreign media outlet is giving this better coverage than much of the MSM(D). Meanwhile, the Violent Left is happy to claim the attacker as their own: On Willem Van Spronsen & His Final Statement

The way he--and they--are happy to adopt as an inspiration for their movement a murderous terrorist that did his best to get huge numbers of innocent men, women, and children slaughtered (John Brown) is scary.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Let me know when you are done attacking the strawman and want to deal with the fact that your country is forcibly separating families, and sometimes the kids die while in the custody of US officials.

Now that we've proven you can't provide a basis for your slander of our law enforcement, we can get back to the fact that when you break the law and are a flight risk, you often end up separated from your family. In this case I would prefer that the families were kept together, and the Trump administration has been looking for ways to accomplish that while still enforcing our immigration laws in spite of the Democrats and some judges doing everything in their power to prevent that. The possible safe-third-country agreements that Trump is trying to negotiate with Mexico and Guatemala would go a long way to keeping those families together.

And that this is a rational reason for attacking a detention center.

Sure, so long as you also believe that it is a rational reason to attack jails and prisons. After all, families are separated there as well.
#15018462
Doug64 wrote:The way he--and they--are happy to adopt as an inspiration for their movement a murderous terrorist that did his best to get huge numbers of innocent men, women, and children slaughtered (John Brown) is scary.


Do you have any evidence that he attacked anyone?

If not, this portrayal of him as this blood-crazed murderer is misleading.

Now that we've proven you can't provide a basis for your slander of our law enforcement, we can get back to the fact that when you break the law and are a flight risk, you often end up separated from your family. In this case I would prefer that the families were kept together, and the Trump administration has been looking for ways to accomplish that while still enforcing our immigration laws in spite of the Democrats and some judges doing everything in their power to prevent that.


You can play the blame game between Republicans and Democrats, but I do not care. The fact is that you guys are treating asylum seekers as criminals, and that is not only wrong according to the treaties you guys have accepted as law, but also wrong according to Christian beliefs.

The fact that they applied for asylum within the borders instead of at a legal point of entry is a bureaucratic issue, not a criminal one.

Your government currently has border officers refusing to hear asylum claims at legal points of entry. They get on a waiting list instead.

The possible safe-third-country agreements that Trump is trying to negotiate with Mexico and Guatemala would go a long way to keeping those families together.


No. Especially if you think they are actually economic migrants, which is a conservative belief about these migrants. Logically, economic migrants would continue to the USA for economic reasons.

If, on the other hand, they are fleeing the violence caused by drug gangs trying to supply the US cocaine habit, they are still in danger because now they are stuck near the very border that all the gangs are trying to control.

Sure, so long as you also believe that it is a rational reason to attack jails and prisons. After all, families are separated there as well.


Since I do not share your false equivalency of asylum seekers=criminals, then your comparison makes no sense.
#15018465
Pants-of-dog wrote:So ICE has started killing white people too now?

It was the police. Isn't that awesome? See? They aren't racist!

Pants-of-dog wrote:And the Tacoma police force has been killing white people for a while?

Cops pretty much kill anyone who comes at them with a deadly weapon. Here's an example of white cops killing a white guy:





Pants-of-dog wrote:Anyway, what is it about this particular shooting that is interesting?

The guy they shot was a leftist who was triggered by all the media propaganda that ICE was running concentration camps. He said he was with Antifa.

Hong Wu wrote:Getting mentally ill people worked up over these supposed atrocities is shameful.

I'm sure the left will at some point start whining that the perp never got a fair trial unlike James Fields.

Pants-of-dog wrote:This is how you get around the moral quandary of forcibly separating families and the having the children die in the custody of US police.

What moral quandary?

Pants-of-dog wrote:I am not sure he was mentally ill. His actions were consistent with the rational idea that we should not kill children and we should stop others from doing so.

Then, you are suggesting he got information from the media and acted on it?

Doug64 wrote:When you have national leaders and opinion-shapers repeatedly equating our law enforcement with mass-murdering racists, someone is eventually going to respond accordingly.

Yes. I think they may have had transient moment of clarity and realized that they have blood on their hands. It won't last long though.

Doug64 wrote:What is more interesting is how the MSM(D) responds (or doesn’t) to the shooting. After all, their knee-jerk reaction when something similar happens targeting Leftists or minorities is to blame it on Conservative rhetoric, loudly and often.

Well, the major distinction is that the conservatives aren't calling for violence, but the leftists are calling for violence. Once again, they got what they wanted. Except they ended up getting another leftist killed, kind of like the Heather Heyer thing. Only, this time they can't go after the cops, because he clearly had a deadly weapon.

Doug64 wrote:Actually, keeping the families together is wise.

Except in some cases, they aren't really families. There is a market for renting kids to cross the border.

Doug64 wrote:I haven’t heard any reports that this shooter is mentally ill, just a true believer. If you actually believe our law enforcement officers are mass-murdering racists and so a threat to those they incarcerate, physically attacking them is perfectly reasonable. And that’s what the Left has been at least insinuating if not outright saying plainly for ages.


Pants-of-dog wrote:Why are you guys treating asylum seekers as prisoners and creating the conditions where children die?

If you cross more than one nation's borders, you aren't typically seeking asylum. You're just trying to use the asylum process to get a temporary work permit and hoping the overloaded system forgets about you.

Pants-of-dog wrote:This, by itself, is reason enough to free people from immigration detention centers.

I'd support shipping them to Canada.

annatar1914 wrote:Look, here's the real issue you have with this. You hate America, the American Government, and the Capitalist system, the Western world in general.

And inexplicably migrates to the heart of the empire s/he hates... Bizarro.

Pants-of-dog wrote:From the evidence I have seen, this happens less than half the time when looking at people who are suspected of child trafficking, which is only a minority of all family cases.

Yes. However, law enforcement is required to address all cases, and the cheapest and most effective way to do that is to separate the children from the adults. Detention centers aren't a great place to practice family values.

Pants-of-dog wrote:The fact that they applied for asylum within the country rather than at a point of entry (where there is a reasonable chance they will be denied an opportunity to apply for asylum) is a bureaucratic issue, not a criminal one.

It is a criminal issue, because they crossed into the country illegally. Nobody is denied an opportunity to apply for asylum. There is just a reasonable chance that they will not be admitted to the United States while awaiting a hearing. So they enter illegally, because they know that if they are released into the US following detention they will have a temporary work permit, so they even have a leg up over illegal aliens who cross and are not caught by ICE, because now they can work at McDonalds, etc. legally.

Pants-of-dog wrote:If the issue actually is that your system is overwhelmed, then devote more resources to the problem.

Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats control the house and voted against providing additional funds, even for much needed beds, etc.

Palmyrene wrote:Children are dying there.

It's statistically insignificant and it's not because ICE is intentionally killing kids.

Palymyrene wrote:They're refugees. They're running away from that.

Maybe they just need you to explain to them the benefits of anarchy.

Palmyrene wrote:There's a difference between that and running away from persecution to legally obtain asylum which is exactly what they're doing.

They aren't being persecuted. They're just poor and looking for an opportunity to make more money.

AFIAK wrote:So if you park your car in a disabled space for 5 minutes your kids get taken away? That seems reasonable to you?

That's an infraction. So no. If you get pissed off about it and punch the meter maid, then yes.

AFIAK wrote:I find it fascinating the apologetics Americans make for their police state.

Americans don't really oppose a police state, so they generally don't apologize for this. I find it fascinating that people want to come here if they think it is so bad and racist.

Doug64 wrote:We can add US News & World Report to the list of MSM(D) that have actually mentioned the attack, though it has even fewer details than any of the others and fails to mention that he described himself as an “anti-fascist.”

Yeah, they are all on to Trump tweeting about AOC, Tlaib, Omar and that other broad, and completely unaware that they are once again doing Trump's bidding.

Doug64 wrote:No follow-up articles or opinion pieces about it from any of those that have already reported it that I can find, it looks like it’s already headed for the circular filing cabinet the MSM(D) reserves for stories that don’t fit its narrative.

That's because it is a politically motivated crime directed at the government to effect a change of policy, and therefore technically it is a terrorist attack perpetrated by the left.

Doug64 wrote:Meanwhile, Andy Ngo—the journalist assaulted by AntiFA and sent to the hospital with a brain hemorrhage—has linked to AntiFA’s response to the firebomber’s claim to be AntiFA. Apparently, they’re fine with it. He also found video of Van Spronsen at an AntiFA rally in 2018.

Tucker Carlson pointed out that none of the Democratic presidential candidates condemned the terrorist attack. So it seems they are fine with it too. I wonder if they are bothered that the perp is dead as Kelsey's nuts?

Pants-of-dog wrote:Let me know when you are done attacking the strawman and want to deal with the fact that your country is forcibly separating families, and sometimes the kids die while in the custody of US officials.

Well, this thread is about a guy going bonkers about that and getting killed. Most Americans are cool with detaining illegal aliens. We're simply reacting to a guy who was going to use incendiaries and a rifle to light up an ICE detention facility. He might have even got illegal aliens killed if he'd been able to set the buildings on fire.

Pants-of-dog wrote:And that this is a rational reason for attacking a detention center.

Why do you think it's rational to use incendiaries at a government facility that's not made of wood? We certainly have a rational reason for law enforcement killing this guy, don't you agree?

Pants-of-dog wrote:You can play the blame game between Republicans and Democrats, but I do not care. The fact is that you guys are treating asylum seekers as criminals, and that is not only wrong according to the treaties you guys have accepted as law, but also wrong according to Christian beliefs.

People who cross the United States border instead of at a point of entry are breaking the law, whether they subsequently seek asylum or not. So they are being treated as criminals, because they are criminals. The US has a separation of church and state, so Christian beliefs are immaterial to law enforcement.

Pants-of-dog wrote:You can play the blame game between Republicans and Democrats, but I do not care. The fact is that you guys are treating asylum seekers as criminals, and that is not only wrong according to the treaties you guys have accepted as law, but also wrong according to Christian beliefs.

Asylum claims are adjudicated by courts, not border patrol. We also have a separation of powers between the executive (border patrol, ICE, CBP, etc.) and the courts.

Doug64 wrote:Since I do not share your false equivalency of asylum seekers=criminals, then your comparison makes no sense.

They are all free to leave detention if they return to their country of origin or the country from which they entered the US. They choose detention.
#15018466
blackjack21 wrote:

And inexplicably migrates to the heart of the empire s/he hates... Bizarro.


What's truly bizarre, something i've noticed increasingly since i've been back on this forum, is all the alleged ''Leftists'' who actively hate the working class peoples around the world and, hating Capitalism, want to accelerate the collapse of society so ''then'' (allegedly) they can carry out their Revolution. These fakes and phonies don't care about the real regular working people in the concrete reified sense, they are diverted instead into shitty Identity Politics and subtle Marxist scholasticism, while real persons suffer from Liberalism.

So here, we have a fanatical Anarchist terrorist scumbag, a cipher his entire life, being lionized in death as some kind of ''Hero'', since you know Trump is literally Hitler and all that... :roll:

And btw, let's see what happens to Jewish political donor money and Jewish votes come 2020, with all the outrageous comparisons made between ''Concentration Camps'' run by the Fascists, and Detention Centers run by a government trying to stop a tidal wave of illegal border crossings and settlement here in the US... I think quite a few Jews know who the real ''Fascists'' are this time.
#15018468
annatar1914 wrote:What's truly bizarre, something i've noticed increasingly since i've been back on this forum, is all the alleged ''Leftists'' who actively hate the working class peoples around the world and, hating Capitalism, want to accelerate the collapse of society so ''then'' (allegedly) they can carry out their Revolution.

That's actually a very good point. These people are stoking these migrations knowing full well that the promise made to the migrants of a better future isn't going to materialize, but that's clearly not their goal.

At any rate, I think the Democrats are putting themselves in an impossible situation:

#15018517
Pants-of-dog wrote:Do you have any evidence that he attacked anyone?

If not, this portrayal of him as this blood-crazed murderer is misleading.

If you’re referring to John Brown, crack open a history book. If you’re referring to this attacker, he made the connection to John Brown himself in his manifesto, as have a number of posts by members of AntiFA lauding his “sacrifice.”

You can play the blame game between Republicans and Democrats, but I do not care. The fact is that you guys are treating asylum seekers as criminals, and that is not only wrong according to the treaties you guys have accepted as law, but also wrong according to Christian beliefs.

The fact that they applied for asylum within the borders instead of at a legal point of entry is a bureaucratic issue, not a criminal one.

Entering this country illegally is a violation of law, even if you apply for asylum afterwards. And the vast majority of these claims for asylum are fraudulent, as evidenced by the fact that around 80% of them are ultimately rejected.

Your government currently has border officers refusing to hear asylum claims at legal points of entry. They get on a waiting list instead.

Putting them on a waiting list is agreeing to hear the claims, once their turn comes up. If you want that to happen faster, push the Left to help devote more resources to immigration enforcement.

No. Especially if you think they are actually economic migrants, which is a conservative belief about these migrants. Logically, economic migrants would continue to the USA for economic reasons.

Remember, 4 out of 5 asylum requests ultimately being rejected. And yes, make it more likely that people attempting to force their way into this country will be removed from the country and they will be less likely to come—certainly less likely to bring their families.

If, on the other hand, they are fleeing the violence caused by drug gangs trying to supply the US cocaine habit, they are still in danger because now they are stuck near the very border that all the gangs are trying to control.

Oddly enough, according to US law violence caused by drug gangs is not a valid reason to claim asylum, it requires persecution based on ethnicity, religion, or politics.

Since I do not share your false equivalency of asylum seekers=criminals, then your comparison makes no sense.

Remember, 4 out of 5 asylum claims rejected—they aren’t true asylum seekers, and if they enter the US illegally rather than wait patiently in Mexico to see if their scam will work then they are breaking our laws.
#15018524
Doug64 wrote:If you’re referring to John Brown, crack open a history book. If you’re referring to this attacker, he made the connection to John Brown himself in his manifesto, as have a number of posts by members of AntiFA lauding his “sacrifice.”


So, you have no evidence that he actually attacked anyone, and so your portrayal of him as a violent murderer is misleading.

Entering this country illegally is a violation of law, even if you apply for asylum afterwards. And the vast majority of these claims for asylum are fraudulent, as evidenced by the fact that around 80% of them are ultimately rejected.


It is such a minor violation of law that this separation of families is obviously a gross overreaction.

And an asylum claim is not fraudulent simply because it is rejected. For example, someone may be fleeing homophobic violence, and the it would be rejected simply because of Trump’s new polices and not because they do not need asylum.

Putting them on a waiting list is agreeing to hear the claims, once their turn comes up. If you want that to happen faster, push the Left to help devote more resources to immigration enforcement.


So you agree that officials are not hearing asylum claims. They are instead putting people on waiting lists and letting them suffer as illegals in Mexico for months a a time, including families.

And why do you need the Left to get the government to do the honorable thing?

Remember, 4 out of 5 asylum requests ultimately being rejected. And yes, make it more likely that people attempting to force their way into this country will be removed from the country and they will be less likely to come—certainly less likely to bring their families.


This is basically a concession that the new policies concerning asylum seekers are merely a racist ploy to deter immigration.

Oddly enough, according to US law violence caused by drug gangs is not a valid reason to claim asylum, it requires persecution based on ethnicity, religion, or politics.


Yes, I am aware that Trump has recently changed the policies so that people fleeing violence and that fear for their lives are not considered asylum seekers who are fleeing for their lives.

This is probably why so many claims are rejected, and not because they are not fleeing threats to their lives and safety.

Remember, 4 out of 5 asylum claims rejected—they aren’t true asylum seekers, and if they enter the US illegally rather than wait patiently in Mexico to see if their scam will work then they are breaking our laws.


And for the third or fourth time, this lawbreaking is so minor as to be irrelevant, and they would not even need to do that if Trump was not trying to get re-elected by playing the racist card and not allowing people to apply.
#15018544
@blackjack21

It's statistically insignificant and it's not because ICE is intentionally killing kids.


There has been 26 rapes of children at ICE facilities this year. Last time I checked one week ago it was 22. 4 rapes in under a week.

Keep your bullshit statistic where it belongs. Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation.

Maybe they just need you to explain to them the benefits of anarchy.


If you knew what anarchy was you would know how retarded that statement is.

They aren't being persecuted. They're just poor and looking for an opportunity to make more money.


Ah and is the source for this statement your heart?
#15018550
blackjack21 wrote:That's actually a very good point. These people are stoking these migrations knowing full well that the promise made to the migrants of a better future isn't going to materialize, but that's clearly not their goal.

At any rate, I think the Democrats are putting themselves in an impossible situation:



Anyone who can't denounce that attack is no better than the piece of shit who committed it. They are complicit, as their refusal to denounce it is tantamount to giving it their support...
#15018560
Zionist Nationalist wrote:do you have any proof that they are being persecuted?


The fact that they're applying for asylum at all.

Most illegal immigrants don't go directly over the border. They smuggle themselves over boats or planes.

The only people who walk directly over to the border are people applying for asylum.

Where's your proof dumbass. You aren't even brave enough to tag people properly. You're just afraid of what I'll say.
#15018565
Willem Van Spronsen wrote:There’s wrong and there’s right. It’s time to take action against the forces of evil.

The anarchist prophets of the 'propaganda by the deed' can argue all they want about the elevating and stimulating influence of terrorist acts on the masses. Theoretical considerations and political experience prove otherwise.

Trotsky (1911)

Individual acts of violence are a ridiculous waste. Of time that could be better spent organising, and lives.
Last edited by ingliz on 16 Jul 2019 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
#15018567
The fact that they're applying for asylum at all.


those days any person of colour can apply for asylum thanks to the liberals

The only people who walk directly over to the border are people applying for asylum.


not true there are plenty of people just do it because they dont have permission to enter and they know that they are not real asylum seekers they just seek a quick way to get in to get a better life

Where's your proof dumbass. You aren't even brave enough to tag people properly. You're just afraid of what I'll say.


What exactly is going on in those countries that they need asylum?
nothing really the drug war in mexico is not happenoing all over the country and mexico is actually middle income country
#15018569
Zionist Nationalist wrote:those days any person of colour can apply for asylum thanks to the liberals


No you're wrong. That's not how the laws for applying for asylum work.

not true there are plenty of people just do it because they dont have permission to enter and they know that they are not real asylum seekers they just seek a quick way to get in to get a better life


No because putting yourself through the legal process of seeking asylum would see them immediately turned away since they would not fit the requirements for seeking asylum.

Thus, they go around the wall, not over it.

What exactly is going on in those countries that they need asylum?


US funded cartels and dictatorships which oppress the population. These people are in danger of their lives. You don't just take your entire family with none of your belongings to flee to another country casually. You do it because you're desperate.

nothing really the drug war in mexico is not happenoing all over the country and mexico is actually middle income country


Cartels literally rule the country. I recall reading the AMA or interview of a former hitman who worked for the cartels and they said the cartels have their fingers over all of Mexico. There is nothing they don't touch.

And the refugees seeking asylum are coming from the poor or wartorn parts of Mexico not the rich parts.
#15018570
ingliz wrote:The anarchist prophets of the 'propaganda by the deed' can argue all they want about the elevating and stimulating influence of terrorist acts on the masses. Theoretical considerations and political experience prove otherwise.

Trotsky (1911)

Individual acts of violence are a ridiculous waste of time that could be better spent organising, and lives.


Those are some big words coming from Trotsky out of all people.

Propaganda by deed is only a part of anarchist organization. It certainly isn't the only part.
#15018575
No you're wrong. That's not how the laws for applying for asylum work.


I know but thats how it actually works those days in Europe.


No because putting yourself through the legal process of seeking asylum would see them immediately turned away since they would not fit the requirements for seeking asylum.

Thus, they go around the wall, not over it.



exactly thats becasue they are not refugees just opportunists


US funded cartels and dictatorships which oppress the population. These people are in danger of their lives. You don't just take your entire family with none of your belongings to flee to another country casually. You do it because you're desperate.


US actually fought to stop cartels from taking over entire countries like the case with pablo escobar

they did fund dictatoships during the cold war but that era have ended in 1991 way before you were even born :lol:


Cartels literally rule the country. I recall reading the AMA or interview of a former hitman who worked for the cartels and they said the cartels have their fingers over all of Mexico. There is nothing they don't touch.

And the refugees seeking asylum are coming from the poor or wartorn parts of Mexico not the rich parts.



The fact that the cartels rule parts of mexico is just showing that the Mexican government is dysfunctional and doing a terrible job at protecting its citizens
its not a reason to seek asylum

and what is the endgame?

maybe transfer all of south and central america into the US since according to you everybody there have a right to apply for asylum right?
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