UK condemns Trump’s racist tweets in unprecedented attack against US congresswomen - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15018918
noemon wrote:That someone should shut up(or have his rights impaired in any way) because that someone is a foreigner is the very definition of racial discrimination as provided to you for the nth time:


Please show us, exactly, where Trump told any of these four "people" in question to shut up?

You can't do that, can you? You've been harping on something that didn't even happen...
#15018922
Got to rid the USA of the establishment ones in the middle. The liberals who are spouting crap and selling the country down the river and the enrich themselves at any cost Republicans who don't have nationalistic feelings and want the money and are self-serving and won't respond to the average voter in the USA. Both of them need to be kicked in the ass out of power. They are useless.

They are both of them without any backbone or principles. Let the ones who are loyal to real principles fight it out for power. The sellouts got to go.
#15018930
noemon wrote:The fact of the matter is that Trump is a shameless racist whose racism ticks all the boxes of the definition:
UNHR 1969 wrote:
PART I

Article 1

1. In this Convention, the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.


That is an overly broad definition of what most of us in the USA consider racial discrimination, because it can be used used to claim "racial discrimination" against anyone that express disagreements with you. And that is what the left do all the time now. They say that you are either a Nazis or a racist.

noemon wrote:Just because political opponents d isagree with you it does not mean that you should tell them to go back where they came from, otherwise people would tell Trump to go back to Scotland and to his wife to go back to Slovenia. And to most white American people to go back to Europe. If you ‘re going to normalise this sort of argument, get ready to be deported by a future non-white administration. If you were tild this kind of thing you would be screeching “racism” and being a victim over the rooftops.

And just because someone, like Trump, disagrees with you does not mean that person is a Nazis or a racist. The actual point Trump was attempting to make is that those congresswomen's words and policies were not patriotic to America; and if they did not like it here in America, they could leave. I am sure that would apply to white Americans that say the same thing, as well. Certainly, it should apply to any member of the Antifa terrorist group.

Trump actually defended Nancy Pelosi against Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez charge of racism against her squad of four congresswomen of color.

President Trump says Speaker Nancy Pelosi is not a racist and that freshman lawmaker Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has been “very disrespectful” toward the leader.


However, Nancy Pelosi will not accept Trump's goodwill but believes she must disagree with Trump on everything. Pelosi attempts to prove she is not racist by saying that Make America great again really means to make America white. This also resulted in her recently violating a rule of the House of Representatives with a remark to condemn the President for making a racist remark.

UPDATED: Parliamentary chaos as House Democrats ban and unban Pelosi from House floor
by John Gage July 16, 2019

"Characterizing an action as racist is not in order," Hoyer ruled after the chairman Rep. Emanuel Cleaver stormed off saying he was "abandoning the chair." The ruling meant Pelosi could not speak on the House floor until the whole House voted to overturn the daylong ban.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... ump-racist
#15018941
blackjack21 wrote:At no point did Trump tell anyone to "shut up." That is a lie. Where does he mention race anywhere in his comments? Nowhere. That's where. That's just all media lies.


If you repeat these nonsense 200 times you might actually convince yourself. It is highly doubtful that you are convincing anyone however as even the pro-Trump conservatives in here have already agreed that his tweets mean: "shut up and go back where you came from". "Where you came from" referring to the ethno/racial composition of the particular congresswomen. And your "political opinion is no longer valid unless you go back where you came from". It is cute that you are denying what words actually mean to sustain your ridiculous apologetics.

If you've been following Trump's tweets, that is what he has been talking about and it is already well known in the United States what AOC, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib have been saying.


You seem quite incapable of following a rational conversation. I quoted your claim that these women have made ethnic slurs against the Jews. I asked you for evidence for it and I also told you that even if they did, 2 wrongs do not make a right. You have offered neither the evidence nor any counter argument.

I'm not sure how I took over your editor and identified and posted as you. However, you don't seem to have any interest in making sense.
The reality is we don't really know who or what SpecialOlympian is. He claims to be black, gay, and a CFA charter holder at a penthouse investment firm in LA where he can never be fired, because of his minority status. He very well could be white for all any of us know. Perhaps you know something we don't know. Personally, I really don't care. I was just noting that you were a-okay with comments about exterminating white people coming from SpecialOlympian because you believe he is white and not black and gay. The reality is that we are not the NSA, so we do not get to learn much more than someone's IP address and where it originates, as Libertarian353 and all his alternate identities aptly demonstrated.


I do know that he is a white American person because I know him in person, there are also others who know him in person. I also told you before that if a Black person made such a thread about Black people I would not consider it racist just like I do not consider white people(Special Olympian) satirising other white supremacist people to ridicule white supremacist logic and expose you as the true whiners and outrage promoters that you truly are. You cry for far less, you demand victim status for far less and accuse others for racism for far less. As such your ridiculous apologetics become all the more cringeworthy. You utilise the argument that because Trump has black friends he can never ever be racist or make racist statements while at the same time accuse white people for anti-white racism. :lol: It seems indeed that clearly you have no interest on making any sense whatsoever.

This has been argued ad inifinitum. Presenting evidence of Trump's bigotry doesn't mean we all reach the verdict you are hoping for.


Acolytes suspend their reasoning faculties, especially acolytes who agree with racism at a fundamental level.

You fell for it hook, line and sinker...
Trump knew that this reaction was coming before he said it. He did it by design to demonstrate the "you can't criticize non-whites even when they criticize you unfairly" point of political correctness. That they lost the 2016 election on this strategy and are doubling down on it is amazing to me.
The whole point of it is to get media attention. For Trump, there is no such thing as bad press. He doesn't want your approval. He wants your attention, and he got it.


Of course Trump knows that racism works, it put him into the white house in 2016 and he is betting it will put him again in 2020 which as I have said will be a wonderful development for US politics as it will finally create clear fault-lines between the Dems and the Republicans and finally establish a real 2 party-system.

Lastly, you keep talking about Theresa May when in fact both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt have condemned Trump’s tweets.
#15018946
Godstud wrote:How can it go any higher? He's the racist President of the USA. Him getting media attention for this is his own fault, for being such a jackass.

I have seen all of your comments and I think they make you the Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation

@ Tainari88
So you say your idea is to take power away from the captalist, who you believe are racists, so that they lose control of their own country and you can turn it into another failed socialist 'shithole' country. That is exactly why patriotic Americas, like me, who want to prevent America from ever becoming a socialist country, voted for Trump. And that is why I will vote for him again.

noemon wrote:I quoted your claim that these women have made ethnic slurs against the Jews. I asked you for evidence for it and I also told you that even if they did, 2 wrongs do not make a right. You have offered neither the evidence nor any counter argument.

However, you think that one wrong is fine as long as it is on your political side.

Top Foreign Affairs Dem rebukes Ilhan Omar for ‘vile anti-Semitic slur’
03/01/2019

Rep. Ilhan Omar is drawing criticism again for comments about Israel — this time suggesting that pro-Israel activists and lawmakers hold “allegiance to a foreign country.”

In a lengthy and blistering rebuke late Friday, Rep. Eliot Engel, the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said Omar’s remarks amounted to a “vile anti-Semitic slur” and called on the Minnesota Democrat to apologize.

“I welcome debate in Congress based on the merits of policy, but it’s unacceptable and deeply offensive to call into question the loyalty of fellow American citizens because of their political views, including support for the U.S.-Israel relationship,” the New York Democrat, who is Jewish, said. “Her comments were outrageous and deeply hurtful, and I ask that she retract them, apologize, and commit to making her case on policy issues without resorting to attacks that have no place in the Foreign Affairs Committee or the House of Representatives.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/ ... ur-1199495

blackjack21 wrote:At no point did Trump tell anyone to "shut up." That is a lie. Trump also didn't tell the squad to go back where they came from and stay there. Trump didn't even mention any of them by name. Trump told them to go back and fix those places, then come back and show us how it is done. In other words, demonstrate your effectiveness with your ideology somewhere else and then come and try it here once you have succeeded--which it won't, because socialism fails by design. It's really easy to debate what Trump said when you go off of what Trump actually said, rather than some distorted media representation of what he said. This is why Trump wins, because he makes you look like a liar to undecided voters among other things.

Where does he mention race anywhere in his comments? Nowhere. That's where. That's just all media lies.

Exactly. The rest of your post is accurate too. Great post blackjack21. However, many ignorant posters can't see facts and truth when it comes to politics and Trump.
#15018947
ness31 wrote:I watched Trumps speech where he spoke about this group of 4 congresswomen. Can’t say I found it particularly offensive.


His comments were dishonest and stupid but I didn't here anything that was overtly racist. I could go on for hours criticizing all the stupid bullshit he spewed in those brief statements but all the libtards can come up is their tired old cries of racism. :knife:
#15018949
Sivad wrote:His comments were dishonest and stupid but I didn't here anything that was overtly racist. I could go on for hours criticizing all the stupid bullshit he spewed in those brief statements but all the libtards can come up is their tired old cries of racism. :knife:

What do you say Trump was dishonest about in his comments? I guess I must have missed that.

Watch President Donald Trump Take Aim At Democrats’ ‘Squad’: ‘They Hate Our Country’ | NBC News
Published on Jul 15, 2019

Last edited by Hindsite on 17 Jul 2019 20:11, edited 1 time in total.
#15018951
Hindsite wrote:However, you think that one wrong is fine as long as it is on your political side.


Projecting your own self to others I see. I asked for evidence of the claim but did not take a position at all. Now prove that Omar’s comments on foreign policy are more racist than Trump’s and explain why Trump has not deleted his tweets and apologised like Omar has done according to your own source. Unless you do that and call for Trump to delete his tweets and apologise you are the one who thinks that the wrong is fine as long as it is on your political side.
#15018954
noemon wrote:Projecting your own self to others I see. I asked for evidence of the claim but did not take a position at all. Now prove that Omar’s comments on foreign policy are more racist than Trump’s and explain why Trump has not deleted his tweets and apologised like Omar has done according to your own source. Unless you do that and call for Trump to delete his tweets and apologise you are the one who thinks that the wrong is fine as long as it is on your political side.

I already provided you with a reference from a Democrat congressman, who is also a Jew that said her comment was a “vile anti-Semitic slur” and called on the Minnesota Democrat to apologize. I am sure a Jew can identify a “vile anti-Semitic slur” when he hears one. You ignorant people in the UK may not be able to know the difference, unlike the Jews in Israel and America. You are being dishonest in claiming you are not taking a position, since you have taken a leftist position from the very beginning. Trump clarified what he meant by his tweet and it had nothing to do with racism at all. It had to to do with their anti-Israel and anti-American statements, actions, and policies.
#15018956
Explain in your words why Omar’s comments are more racist than Trump’s and explain why Trump has not apologised for them like Omar has. You keep insisting that your wrong is OK because it is on your side while hypocritically accusing others. :knife: :lol:
#15018961
noemon wrote:Explain in your words why Omar’s comments are more racist than Trump’s and explain why Trump has not apologised for them like Omar has. You keep insisting that your wrong is OK because it is on your side while hypocritically accusing others. :knife: :lol:

I don't consider Trump's comments or actions racist at all, and I have already stated the reason. Therefore, I see no reason for Trump to apologize for comments that he did not mean as racist, but only as criticisms of their comments and actions in Congress that are anti-American and anti-Israel and pro Al Qaeda terrorists. These four congresswomen support each other and refuse to criticize each other's outrageous remarks and actions. So that makes them all equally guilty in my eyes.
#15018968
Hindsite wrote:I don't consider Trump's comments or actions racist at all, and I have already stated the reason. Therefore, I see no reason for Trump to apologize for comments that he did not mean as racist, but only as criticisms of their comments and actions in Congress that are anti-American and anti-Israel and pro Al Qaeda terrorists. These four congresswomen support each other and refuse to criticize each other's outrageous remarks and actions. So that makes them all equally guilty in my eyes.


Of course you do not consider Trump's wrong as wrong because it is on your side, while at the same time you are whinging and crying about Omar further cementing the fact that you guys are not "anti-establishment" or "anti-outrage" as you hilariously claim to be. You are simply the same as the "libs". As I said you need to explain why you think the comments Ilhan Omar made about Israeli influence in US foreign affairs are more racist than Trump's comments against 4 American congresswomen. You accused me that I believe that Omar's "wrong" is ok because it is on my side even though I made absolutely no statement to that effect, when in fact the exact opposite is true and you are projecting your own hypocrisy here.

Sivad wrote:His comments were dishonest and stupid but I didn't here anything that was overtly racist. I could go on for hours criticizing all the stupid bullshit he spewed in those brief statements but all the libtards can come up is their tired old cries of racism. :knife:


Racism cannot be discounted, ever. When you start discounting racist comments by refusing to call them out for what they are, you end up terrorising your own population just so you do not get to be called a "libtard." The only libtards crying outrage here are the Trump supporters accusing white people for anti-white racism, accusing everyone else for Trump's own statements and refusing to abide by the same standards that they accuse Omar of. Hypocrisy much, but I'm sure for the people drinking the kool-aid the only issue here is the people calling the spade a spade. :knife:
#15019031
noemon wrote:Of course you do not consider Trump's wrong as wrong because it is on your side, while at the same time you are whinging and crying about Omar further cementing the fact that you guys are not "anti-establishment" or "anti-outrage" as you hilariously claim to be. You are simply the same as the "libs". As I said you need to explain why you think the comments Ilhan Omar made about Israeli influence in US foreign affairs are more racist than Trump's comments against 4 American congresswomen. You accused me that I believe that Omar's "wrong" is ok because it is on my side even though I made absolutely no statement to that effect, when in fact the exact opposite is true and you are projecting your own hypocrisy here.

I have already explained it and so did blackjack21. So if you can't understand English, then that is on you.
#15019034
noemon wrote:Do you believe that his tweets serve a higher purpose than the "hyperbolic" criticism they received?

No. I think he probably wants to get an over the top response and he knows that many Americans agree that the US is great and are a bit miffed by people who have chosen the country as their new home but hardly have anything positive to say about it. I believe that this sentiment is extremely common across the world and it should not become taboo to express it in the west.

There are two other aspects to this. The first is how to express something like this. Trump is always extremely blunt which I think suits his temperament, but as mentioned above it also often works to make the opposition look worse when they retaliate. I suspect that Trump as a person and politician doesn't function in any other way, so this tactic flows from the idea of making the best politically of his personality.

The second is his motive and I see no evidence that he is motivated by the ethnicity/race of the targets of his attacks. He didn't mince his words with Teresa May or McCain either. I'm strongly opposed to imputing ethnic/racial prejudice as a causal factor when minorities are at the receiving end of criticism. And to make the same point I made (albeit probably badly) in the Labour anti-semitism thread, I also oppose this when it happens to Corbyn who experienced it, for instance, with his comment about a group of Zionists not understanding English irony.
#15019056
noemon wrote:If you repeat these nonsense 200 times you might actually convince yourself.

I don't have to repeat it even once. I posted Trump's actual words for you and everyone else to see. He did not mention anyone by name, by race, or by ethnicity. He did mention four progressive women. So you could have charged him with sexism or disdain for progressivism, which could have stuck. Trump baited you into making the leaps in logic you made. Your conclusions came from your mind, not from Trump's words. Trump is raising support among modernists while thrashing post-modernists. His poll numbers went up among his supporters.

noemon wrote:It is highly doubtful that you are convincing anyone however as even the pro-Trump conservatives in here have already agreed that his tweets mean: "shut up and go back where you came from".

Once again, you are taking someone else's words and making them mean something other than what they said. I posted Trump's words so that people can review what he actually said, not what the media deliberately and mendaciously mis-reported. It's this practice why the mainstream media has lost its legitimacy. The days of Walter Cronkite are long gone. Today, people look at a news anchor and assume s/he is lying about something.

noemon wrote:I quoted your claim that these women have made ethnic slurs against the Jews.

Again, it's already well known. If the media in Europe doesn't cover it, take it up with the media in Europe.

noemon wrote:I do know that he is a white American person because I know him in person, there are also others who know him in person.

I don't see why someone's background would make any difference in a text-based forum, but that's because I am not a relativist. I don't know SpecialOlympian personally, but like Libertarian353, he makes so many contrary claims it's impossible to derive who or what he is from his text. Since he claims to be an LSD user, I assume he's simply hallucinating most of the time as he seems to find everything funny, which I interpret as pseudo-bulbar affect disorder.

noemon wrote:I also told you before that if a Black person made such a thread about Black people I would not consider it racist just like I do not consider white people(Special Olympian) satirising other white supremacist people to ridicule white supremacist logic and expose you as the true whiners and outrage promoters that you truly are.

That's a post-modern view. The modern view is that the law applies equally to all people, so act and intent are what matters. Someone's background or identity does not.

noemon wrote:You utilise the argument that because Trump has black friends he can never ever be racist or make racist statements while at the same time accuse white people for anti-white racism.

I don't think making racist statements makes a person racist. I think racist acts do. Trump doesn't act like a racist. Far from it. Racist statements in America are most common among African Americans. Listen to hip hop and rap, for example. You'd never hear the sort of things black artists say accepted by society if they were coming from white artists, and that includes anti-homosexual and misogynist views.

noemon wrote:Lastly, you keep talking about Theresa May when in fact both Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt have condemned Trump’s tweets.

The thread is about Teresa May popping off at Trump again. We'll see what BoJo says when the UK wants a trade deal with the US while Trump is president. :lol: I'm sure principles will be deprecated and disposed of expediently at that time. The UK is a shambles as a result of globalism. It has become just one more globalist outpost with some GPS coordinates, but the UK itself has practically speaking ceased to exist.

Hindsite wrote:Exactly. The rest of your post is accurate too. Great post blackjack21. However, many ignorant posters can't see facts and truth when it comes to politics and Trump.

As a result of my post, they all have Trump's text before them. They cannot be characterized as "ignorant." So you have to conclude that they know exactly what they are doing. So does Trump, by the way. Noemon argues in ways that are somewhat similar to Pants-of-dog. I've read a lot of PoMo literature--Lionel Trilling, Richard Rorty, John Rawls, etc. Solidarity or agreement is more important to them than facts, which they consider to be subjective and relative. That's why you will hear noemon and Pants-of-dog constantly asking if you agree about something. That's solidarity, and the purpose is to replace truth or facts with agreement. It is quite obvious that Trump isn't some sort of Ku Klux Klan type as he likes far too many blacks and Jews for him to fit that mold.

Richard Rorty: The Contingency of Language wrote:If we are ever again to live in that dawn in which the young Wordsworth exulted, to recapture Schiller’s conviction that art and politics together may jointly shape a new humanity, we need to make a distinction between the claim that the world is out there and the claim that the truth is out there. To say that the world is out there, that it is not our creation, is to say, with common sense, that most things in space and time are the effects of causes which do not include human mental states. To say that truth is not out there is simply to say that where there are no sentences there is no truth, that sentences are elements of human languages, and that human languages are human creations. Truth cannot be out there – cannot exist independently of the human mind – because sentences cannot so exist, or be out there. The world is out there, but descriptions of the world are not. Only descriptions of the world can be true or false. The world on its own – unaided by the describing activities of human beings – cannot.

The suggestion that truth, as well as the world, is out there is the legacy of an age in which the world was seen as the creation of a being who had a language of His own. This suggestion runs together the truth that the world sometimes causes sentences to be true or false with the falsehood that what causes a sentence to be true is, somehow, itself true – that the world splits itself up, on its own initiative, into sentence-shaped chunks called ‘facts’. If one runs these together, it is easy to start capitalising the word ‘truth’ and treating it as something identical either with God or with the world as God’s project. Then one will say, for example, that Truth is great, and will prevail.


For the atheists, there is no truth. Only agreement. Only solidarity.

While I find his vlogs sometimes pointless, Dr. Steve Turley, a theology professor, really nailed it today. It's worth your ten minutes, but I've teed it up at 4:51 into the vlog to where he says something that is profound--where the modernist now understands, but still rejects the post-modernist. At about 8:30, he makes another key point that leads up to something important. Globalists are still doubling down on a defense of globalism that relies upon philosophical modernism for its legitimacy in a legal and commercial sense.



While I don't necessarily agree that globlism's demise is imminent, its reliance on violence is imminent if it is to rely on philosophical post-modernism for cohesion and legitimacy, because there is no philosophical truth to post modernists. That's why noemon's questions tend to come pre-loaded with conclusions of fact not in evidence. For example:

noemon wrote:Explain in your words why Omar’s comments are more racist than Trump’s and explain why Trump has not apologised for them like Omar has.

So @Hindsite, noemon wants you to at first accept that Trump's comments are racist and then describe the relative difference--the relativism is built-in to the question and the sleight of hand is the built-in conclusion that Trump's comments are racist in spite of the fact that he did not mention race at any point, nor was he criticizing anybody's race. It seems you have picked up on this, and so has the population at large.

Hindsite wrote:I don't consider Trump's comments or actions racist at all, and I have already stated the reason.

Well done.

noemon wrote:Racism cannot be discounted, ever.

Why not? In a multicultural world, some cultures may be racist. Some may not. Why all the vigilance against racism from white people, but not from blacks or Hispanics or Arabs? It seems that you are indeed discounting racism, while claiming you never do.
#15019072
blackjack21 wrote:For the atheists, there is no truth. Only agreement. Only solidarity.

That's not entirely true. Modernists and marxists (materialists) accept that truth exists. However, they are more prone to relativistic attacks, because they have to justify this philosophically rather than axiomatically by referring to a higher being.
#15019078
noemon wrote:Racism cannot be discounted, ever.


What in the hell does that even mean? Of course racism can be discounted, it can be discounted whenever there is a more plausible interpretation of what's being expressed than racism.
#15019079
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:That's not entirely true. Modernists and marxists (materialists) accept that truth exists. However, they are more prone to relativistic attacks, because they have to justify this philosophically rather than axiomatically by referring to a higher being.

I am certain that blackjack21 was referring to absolute truth, instead of agreed upon truth to obtain solidarity.
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