Election 2020 - Page 12 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By colliric
#15020475
Hong Wu wrote:I believe that some day, people are going to look back upon Trump's Presidency as a golden age. Particularly in contrast to what comes after it.


Just like what happened with Ronald Reagan.

4 turds followed him. With the Bush turds being only slightly less turdy.
By Hindsite
#15020490
annatar1914 wrote:You watch. After some more of these losers drop out and/or crash and burn on live TV, you'll see Marianne Williamson's candidacy explode seemingly out of nowhere, like's Trump's did.

I seriously doubt it.
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By annatar1914
#15020491
Hindsite wrote:I seriously doubt it.


You are of course welcome to doubt it all you want, and I myself hope that I'm wrong, but just watch. I got the same feeling about her that I did when I said Obama would be elected President in 2008, when everybody was saying to me ''no, stupid, it'll be Hillary Clinton, nobody would vote for a guy with a Muslim name...". And when Trump announced his candidacy I knew he was going to be the winner too...

I'm saying that Marianne Williamson will be the Democratic Party candidate for President in 2020. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong.
By Hindsite
#15020495
annatar1914 wrote:I'm saying that Marianne Williamson will be the Democratic Party candidate for President in 2020. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong.

I predict that she will lose, big league or bigly. :lol:
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By annatar1914
#15020501
Hindsite wrote:I predict that she will lose, big league or bigly. :lol:


Look. I know what this woman and her type of operator can do, just as surely as I know what President Trump can do, both are what people in the know call ''master persuaders''. I look at Marianne Williamson's candidacy and I'm taking her very seriously, as should everybody else.
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By BigSteve
#15020507
I truly cannot wait to see the parade of liberal dipshits crying on every network when their candidate, whoever it may be, gets stomped into a shitty mudhole by Trump...
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By jimjam
#15020519
annatar1914 wrote:Look. I know what this woman and her type of operator can do, just as surely as I know what President Trump can do, both are what people in the know call ''master persuaders''. I look at Marianne Williamson's candidacy and I'm taking her very seriously, as should everybody else.

quite frankly I was not aware of her. She was lost in the crowd for me. On your recommendation I did a few utubes of her and, must say, was quite impressed. She is super smart, speaks very well and ………… resonates. She has substance and speaks to America's current mess. The situation is very fluid ….. thanks annatar, I will be watching her.
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By colliric
#15020525
annatar1914 wrote:Look. I know what this woman and her type of operator can do, just as surely as I know what President Trump can do, both are what people in the know call ''master persuaders''. I look at Marianne Williamson's candidacy and I'm taking her very seriously, as should everybody else.


I'm not taking her seriously. The Democrats will not put up a New Age Guru candidate that will no doubt be accused of being a Witch and into the Satanic occult(regardless of whether she is or isn't). That's political suicide. Fox News will be pulling out the Champagne as soon as the primaries are over if she's the candidate.

jimjam wrote:She is super smart, speaks very well and ………… resonates. She has substance and speaks to America's current mess.

Her religious beliefs tank her candidacy. Trump and Fox News would murder her in the main campaign based on her odd religious views.

I stand by my beliefs the Democratic voters will shy away from a female candidate this election after 2016's disastrous result.

Bernie, Biden or Booker will win the candidacy. I want Bernie, and Biden is still favourite, but I think Booker will win it overall at this exact moment, I think he will win the Primary battle on youth and maybe the black vote might come back out for him. Kamala Harris has the best chance of the women.

They won't go Trump VS Pocahontas surely???
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By annatar1914
#15020528
jimjam wrote:quite frankly I was not aware of her. She was lost in the crowd for me. On your recommendation I did a few utubes of her and, must say, was quite impressed. She is super smart, speaks very well and ………… resonates. She has substance and speaks to America's current mess. The situation is very fluid ….. thanks annatar, I will be watching her.


Well, this is what I ''do'' when examining political races.... I take my own wishes out of the equation, and see it strictly as what it is, something at least as old as Edward Bernays but probably centuries older, what I've called; ''master persuasion''. I narrow it down to who has it, the subtle neuro-linguistic keys quite consciously used by master persuaders to move people where they want to go unconsciously anyway, and who doesn't have it.

In this race, President Trump and Marianne Williamson have what it takes in this area, so I think it'll come down to these two. It'll look like the craziest spookiest shit you've ever seen.
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By colliric
#15020544
annatar1914 wrote:In this race, President Trump and Marianne Williamson have what it takes in this area, so I think it'll come down to these two. It'll look like the craziest spookiest shit you've ever seen.


A dirty tactics negative campaign would work too easily with Marianne Williamson. She is a practitioner in New Age Religion. Cue the "Worships Satan and is a Witch!" classic attack. She has not explicitly stated what type of New Age Religion she believes in, but voters will probably assume she's Wiccan of cause.

I just don't see it happening, her religion kills any chance of her winning. I'm not sure why you do to be honest with you, but I guess you could say the same about my realistic prediction Corey Booker will turn out the "I'm the next Obama" Black voters and win. I'm going on my hunches too.

I don't see the Women getting up in the primaries. I think it's already in reality now a 5 horse race. Sanders-Biden-Booker-Harris-Warren.
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By blackjack21
#15020546
annatar1914 wrote:I look at Marianne Williamson's candidacy and I'm taking her very seriously, as should everybody else.

There's still plenty of time, but she's not even in the top 5 in terms of polling. She has to do something to change that.

colliric wrote:Bernie, Biden or Booker will win the candidacy.

Booker isn't even polling two percent. He's got a big hill to climb too.

colliric wrote:They won't go Trump VS Pocahontas surely???

I think that would be political suicide; however, politics have been pretty weird in the US since 2008. So anything's possible. She's in the top-5 polling.

colliric wrote:Kamala Harris has the best chance of the women.

She's polling behind Warren consistently. I think biting off on all the AOC stuff will limit her upside. I also think playing the race card against Biden will turn off a lot of voters. The Democrats just don't seem to get how tired people are of race as an issue. A lot of people voted for Obama on the idea that we would become a post-racial country. Obama trolled race throughout his presidency, and Trump is playing a similar game on the resentment of blue collar white who the Democrats crazily assert have "white privilege."

annatar1914 wrote:In this race, President Trump and Marianne Williamson have what it takes in this area, so I think it'll come down to these two.

The "Squad" has really screwed the Democratic party up in that so many of the candidates signed on to the Green New Deal, etc. Williamson is for reparations for slavery, which is a non-starter. Nobody alive today held slaves. The US government didn't hold slaves. Slavery was antecedent to the United States, and the US had to tolerate it with limits just to get accession to ratifying the constitution so that it wasn't swallowed up by the British Empire again. It's another cynical attempt to buy black votes, and it may work to get blacks to continue to vote Democrat. However, it has almost zero chance of being enacted into law as it is a financial giveaway based primarily on race--especially at a time when Democrats are asserting that people can assert all sorts of different identities without any basis in fact. Everyone could just identify as black. It would be madness.
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By colliric
#15020552
Williamson's biggest problems are in fact her religious beliefs. Her religion screws up any chance she'll be taken seriously by voters. No matter how articulate she is.

I assume @annatar1914 is taking her religion into account?
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By annatar1914
#15020797
@blackjack21 ;

There's still plenty of time, but she's not even in the top 5 in terms of polling. She has to do something to change that.


Right now, all she has to do is watch some of the other candidates flame out. She's probably got enough money to do that, or will shortly.

The "Squad" has really screwed the Democratic party up in that so many of the candidates signed on to the Green New Deal, etc. Williamson is for reparations for slavery, which is a non-starter.


Anybody who knows the sort of things needed to come to power knows that reparations is probably a non-starter like you say. But, being in favor of reparations or being against reparations places a clear divide between the two types of politician in the collective mind of the African American community.


Nobody alive today held slaves. The US government didn't hold slaves. Slavery was antecedent to the United States, and the US had to tolerate it with limits just to get accession to ratifying the constitution so that it wasn't swallowed up by the British Empire again.


Historical truth...



It's another cynical attempt to buy black votes, and it may work to get blacks to continue to vote Democrat. However, it has almost zero chance of being enacted into law as it is a financial giveaway based primarily on race--especially at a time when Democrats are asserting that people can assert all sorts of different identities without any basis in fact. Everyone could just identify as black. It would be madness.


Political fact....

But, again, like I said it will place Williamson in among a category of candidates that have the appearance of caring about ''Justice'' in relation to righting a historical wrong, as is perceived. Everybody gets on the gravy train of some historical injustice or other, hoping for an individual payout without individual effort.

Yet here it's the perception that matters. If people are taught to feel victimized and aggrieved and hold historical grudges, it becomes a salve, a balm to seemingly explain life's present day misfortunes. Any attempt to counter this ''explanation'' is just seen as part of the same series of injustices by the same unjust people, extended into the present day.

So for Williamson, it costs nothing to say she stands for reparations, which are not in kind but only in degree and scale not truly different than any other Liberal Bourgeoisie giveaway welfare program, created to mollify working people and keep them for revolting and crashing the System. Of course, to pay one working class group at the expense of another also divides those groups, which is also useful for Capitalism.
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By blackjack21
#15020843
annatar1914 wrote:Yet here it's the perception that matters. If people are taught to feel victimized and aggrieved and hold historical grudges, it becomes a salve, a balm to seemingly explain life's present day misfortunes. Any attempt to counter this ''explanation'' is just seen as part of the same series of injustices by the same unjust people, extended into the present day.

I think that's an excellent point. It works well when you put a Jeb Bush or a Mitt Romney into the mix, because they don't want to be called racist and they won't challenge the premise. It doesn't work when someone like Trump was involved. Slavery was something done principally by other than the eldest sons of the British aristocracy and their posterity who had to go out and stake their own claim, because they didn't stand to inherit land and title in the UK. Slave owners lost everything in the Civil War. They would be the "guilty party" if one were to ask for damages. Having half the country razed in a Civil War and having your house burned, your property taken and maybe even losing your life is generally punishment enough for something that wasn't even a crime at the time.

Trump will just note that the problems today are really about taking manufacturing out of the United States (outsourcing), and illegal immigrants driving down wage rates. That's actually the problem, and that's why it resonates. People like Jeb Bush, Mitt Romney, John Kasich and the like are all for that system though, which is why they would never challenge it. Trump just has to mention tariffs (taxes on rich traders) to highlight the fact that they get to trade globally tax free, where someone in California cannot even buy a pack of gum made in the United States without paying a 9% sales tax on it and the manufacturer being subject to scores of regulations and taxes in additional to the income tax. The manifest unfairness of it is very apparent to voters, and they respond to Trump's rhetoric and even tolerate an otherwise boisterous blowhard because virtually nobody else will talk about those specific issues. That's why he can potentially pull an inside straight again, as improbable as it is.
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By colliric
#15020871
annatar1914 wrote:@blackjack21 ;
Right now, all she has to do is watch some of the other candidates flame out. She's probably got enough money to do that, or will shortly.


You still have not responded to why you believe her religious beliefs are not controversial enough to sink any chance she has. She is already struggling with the current negative campaigning:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/mari ... nti-vaxxer
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By annatar1914
#15020872
colliric wrote:You still have not responded to why you believe her religious beliefs are not controversial enough to sink any chance she has. She is already struggling with the current negative campaigning:
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/mari ... nti-vaxxer

.
@colliric

Marianne Williamson's heterodox views on religion/spirituality are not controversial among likely Democratic voters, in fact are probably well represented there. America is not a religiously orthodox society, and the beliefs of many even among the ''mainstream'' American religions are not exactly reflected in said religions creeds and statements of belief, either.

And there's no such thing as negative publicity, especially in her case. You'll see.
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By colliric
#15020878
I still think she has no chance because the field is packed with top Democrat talent(just the five names of Biden-Warren-Harris-Sanders-Booker should intimidate most others). But then you never know, this could also be a classic "raise my profile for the next campaign in 2024" play. Not like that hasn't happened before.

I don't believe the same situation is happening as happened to the Republican party in 2016, they were facing a "traditional changeover" election and alot of "Sharks circling" candidates put in, but 8 years in opposition (as we call it Downunder) had clearly produced no real genuine contenders and the media was saying "must be Bush" even though three Bush repub presidents in a row was obviously NOT happening. In hindsight only Ted Cruz, Rubio and Jeb Bush had some vague recognition amongst Republican voters.

I think this Democratic Primary is however full of potential talent and a good entertaining campaign should ensure, but everyone knows Trump is likely to win again. Some young ones are clearly using it as classic profile raising for the 2024 run. You can bet Gillibrand and Booker will be back in 2024 if they don't win. Biden, Warren and Sanders, this is it for them though.
By Hindsite
#15020879
colliric wrote:Bernie, Biden or Booker will win the candidacy. I want Bernie, and Biden is still favourite, but I think Booker will win it overall at this exact moment, I think he will win the Primary battle on youth and maybe the black vote might come back out for him. Kamala Harris has the best chance of the women.

Booker and Harris are not old white men and can not be accused of racism by the Democrats because they are not white. Booker can also speak Spanish, which is likely to gain a lot of Latino votes, especially those of the illegal immigrants from south of the border.
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By jimjam
#15022709
Marianne Williamson has proved curiously magnetic to the viewing public during the brief moments she’s actually been able to speak from her lectern, literally on the fringe, at the televised Democratic primary debates so far. For long stretches of time, the CNN moderators did not include Williamson, 67, in the discussion, and yet she demonstrated an ability to cut through. “We have an administration that’s gutted the Clean Water Act. We have communities, particularly communities of colour and disadvantaged communities all over this country, who are suffering from environmental injustice … this is part of the dark underbelly of American society,” she said to a burst of applause.

“If you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivised hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I’m afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days,” she said.
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By annatar1914
#15022710
jimjam wrote:Marianne Williamson has proved curiously magnetic to the viewing public during the brief moments she’s actually been able to speak from her lectern, literally on the fringe, at the televised Democratic primary debates so far. For long stretches of time, the CNN moderators did not include Williamson, 67, in the discussion, and yet she demonstrated an ability to cut through. “We have an administration that’s gutted the Clean Water Act. We have communities, particularly communities of colour and disadvantaged communities all over this country, who are suffering from environmental injustice … this is part of the dark underbelly of American society,” she said to a burst of applause.

“If you think any of this wonkiness is going to deal with this dark psychic force of the collectivised hatred that this president is bringing up in this country, then I’m afraid that the Democrats are going to see some very dark days,” she said.


I said it from the start; Marianne Williamson will be the Democratic Nominee for President. That's not to say that I agree with her or anything, but she's a master persuader and even Donald Trump Jr. recognized that in her I think with a tweet about her. It's not magic, I have my reasons.
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