Trump's Dumb Economics - Page 63 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15023753
People who file for bankruptcy are generally not good at business. If you have to do it numerous times, it means you are shit at business. Blaming the economy on it, is a nice deflection, but not realistic.
#15023787
Godstud wrote:People who file for bankruptcy are generally not good at business. If you have to do it numerous times, it means you are shit at business. Blaming the economy on it, is a nice deflection, but not realistic.

A person that grows millions of dollars into billions of dollars is a good businessman in my opinion.
#15023790
You mean someone who was given money(Daddy gave it to him) and managed to make less than if he'd simply given it to someone else who knew what they were doing , to make even MORE money.

:lol:

Trump's not a good businessman. That's simply fact.


The creation myth of the billionaire businessman Donald Trump just imploded
The truth, as laid bare by the Times reporting, which included reviewing more than 100,000 pages of financial documents, is that Donald Trump was born into a very wealthy family and through a series of complicated tax maneuvers -- many of which, at best, skirted the law -- was propelled upward by his father's heavy behind-the-scenes financial support.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/03/poli ... index.html

Donald Trump Might Be the Worst Businessman in America
But The Times’s investigation, based on a vast trove of confidential tax returns and financial records, reveals that Mr. Trump received the equivalent today of at least $413 million from his father’s real estate empire, starting when he was a toddler and continuing to this day.

But the story doesn’t end there. In 2004 Donald Trump talked his siblings into selling off the remainder of their father’s holdings. His share was $177.3 million, which he used to shore up his own business ventures. That is the same year Trump went to work for NBC as the star of The Apprentice.

Trump was clearly in deep financial trouble: he sold off his father’s assets to pay creditors, filed for bankruptcy, sued his banker to avoid a loan payment, and took a job hosting a reality TV show. And yet, at the about the same time, he went on a $400 million spending spree with cash. On top of that, he got more than $300 million in loans from Deutsche Bank. Keep in mind that in 2017, Deutsche Bank reached a $630 million settlement with American and British regulators for turning a blind eye to money laundering from Russian investors.

This demonstrates that Donald Trump might be the worst businessmen in America. He squandered his father’s entire fortune and might very well have gotten a Russian bailout about a decade before deciding to run for president. Even the most financially-challenged among us should be able to understand that sorry tale.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/10/1 ... n-america/
#15023803
Godstud wrote:You mean someone who was given money(Daddy gave it to him) and managed to make less than if he'd simply given it to someone else who knew what they were doing , to make even MORE money.


I'm certainly a guy who likes to make money. I've made a lot of it.

Could I have made more? Yeah, probably. But sometimes risks come with the territory. I sold a business in 2010 for a considerable amount of money, and I profited greatly from the sale. Had I held on until 2013 before I sold it, I would've made even more money on the sale. But there were other ventures to explore, and the capital from the first sale financed those ventures (not all of which were focused on making money).

If all you want to do is make money, hire someone to handle your financial affairs. But if you want to do something with your money, being "safe" isn't always the optimal way to go...
User avatar
By Godstud
#15023804
Good points @BigSteve, but that is still not an argument that supports the myth that Trump's a good businessman, let alone, economist.
#15023812
Godstud wrote:Good points @BigSteve, but that is still not an argument that supports the myth that Trump's a good businessman, let alone, economist.


No, but your argument hardly proves that he's a bad one.

The guy is crazy rich. Now, sure, he was handed a lot of cash from his father. But he's done things with that money. some things have worked, others haven't. Either way, he's got a lot more money now than what he got from dear old Dad.

There are a myriad of reasons why businesses go bankrupt, so saying his businesses did (he didn't) because he's a bad businessman is profoundly short sighted. Furthermore, not filing bankruptcy isn't necessarily a sign of prosperity, as many businesses fail without going through bankruptcy proceedings.

The bottom line is that you can't sum up someone's business acumen based on numbers such as these...
User avatar
By jimjam
#15023814
Hindsite wrote:Trump has never filed for personal bankruptcy. Those business bankruptcies were necessary


Damn! I learned something today. Bankruptcy is a success when Obese Donald is bankrupt

I should know by now that Obese Donald has never ever made a mistake :lol:
#15023817
jimjam wrote:Damn! I learned something today. Bankruptcy is a success when Obese Donald is bankrupt

I should know by now that Obese Donald has never ever made a mistake :lol:

Far-left liberal socialist have a hard time learning to overcome their propaganda political indoctrination.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15023831
Hindsite wrote:Far-left liberal socialist.


You mean I'm not yet a Commie? Phew, that's a load off.

Here's how Obese Donald is screwing up with China. I grew up with Donnie, lived in NYC for 27 years and got familiar with his MO ad nauseum. He was always background noise. His M.O. is to be completely unpredictable, throw his opponent off guard, lie a lot, and then throw a hundred or so lawyers at his opponent to wear him down. At this point, renege on any agreements and offer him a shit deal that he will jump at simply to get out of the ring. This shit works pretty good on a contractor who is dumb enough to fall for Donnie's lies and false promises in the first place. China? Not so much. I am in favor of Don going after China. They play fast and loose (like Don) and needed to be tweaked back. Don is, more or less, using his standard M.O. Don is not stupid but neither is China. China simply needs to jerk Don off (which will anger him and result in poor decisions) and wait him out. China will be around long after the fat guy drops dead or leaves the stage one way or the other. China has national pride (not to mention really big money) at stake and cannot be intimidated by the fat man. China is also super networked around the globe and can easily make Don's easy to win trade war ….. not so easy. We are already seeing panic taking hold around the globe as investors tire of the fat man's unpredictable nonsense. Big money requires a safe and predictable environment; the opposite of what the fat man promotes. When the chips are down it is every man for himself and the money is stashed in safe havens. Investment slows. This is the stage we have just entered as a result of the fat man's emotional loss of control. It is an interesting chess game but, unfortunately, Donnie is a five card stud kinda guy and way outclassed in a chess environment.

I could go on but it is now time to have a beer, smoke a nice Cuban and watch the stars.
#15023836
Actually, it was China that reneged on the deal in the beginning. China eventually said they would buy from our farmers and reneged on that deal too. Is your solution, just to continue to let them screw over us anyway they want by continuing the usual gutless liberal policy of economics?
User avatar
By Godstud
#15023841
@BigSteve Trump got his money from his father in 1971. If he'd simply put it into a financial company and had them do everything for him, he's still have far more money that what he has now. We're talking 45+ years, you know... it'd be hard not to be fantastically wealthy, unless you're a complete numpty.

$400 million at 5% interest over 45 years is around $3.6 Billion. I could do better than that with my financial consultant who makes me (on average), 8% annually over the last 25 years. That's be about $12 billion+, over that 45 years.
#15023873
Godstud wrote:@BigSteve Trump got his money from his father in 1971. If he'd simply put it into a financial company and had them do everything for him, he's still have far more money that what he has now. We're talking 45+ years, you know... it'd be hard not to be fantastically wealthy, unless you're a complete numpty.

$400 million at 5% interest over 45 years is around $3.6 Billion. I could do better than that with my financial consultant who makes me (on average), 8% annually over the last 25 years. That's be about $12 billion+, over that 45 years.


I understand all of that.

But, clearly, Trump wasn't concerned with simply having as much money as he possibly could. If he was, he'd have gone the route you outline. But, instead, he did things with his money. Some worked out, some didn't. But being involved in bad business endeavors is hardly the mark of a successful businessman. On a "being successful" scale of one to ten, Trump is certainly closer to ten than he is to one.

I've had some great success in my life, but I've also suffered losses. I've made incredibly good investments, but I've also made some horribly bad ones. Any successful person who says he's never made a bad move is lying to you...
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By Godstud
#15023875
Trump's success is poor according to most sources, which I already presented. This isn't something that has improved over 45+ years. It's pretty easy to make a lot of money when you start out with a lot, too.

BigSteve wrote:I've had some great success in my life, but I've also suffered losses. I've made incredibly good investments, but I've also made some horribly bad ones. Any successful person who says he's never made a bad move is lying to you...
Yes, failing is what people do, and people who repeatedly fail are only proving that they aren't good at what they do, or they aren't learning from their mistakes. I've had my poor investments, and my great successes.

Elon Musk failed a lot, but he always learned from his failures, and so only became richer, instead of poorer.
#15023876
Godstud wrote:Elon Musk failed a lot, but he always learned from his failures, and so only became richer, instead of poorer.


And Trump has more money now than he what his father gave him.

I know you need to paint Trump as a failure, but the reality is that he's not. He's been quite successful...
User avatar
By Rancid
#15023885
Hindsite wrote:A person that grows millions of dollars into billions of dollars is a good businessman in my opinion.


Good scam artist, get it right.

Anyway, I don't get too upset of Trump since I can pretty much leave the US right after he ruins it all. Kind of a shame though, it will have been fun while it lasted. YOu know, actually contributing to the American economy and not being a parasite like you.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15023893
BigSteve wrote:I know you need to paint Trump as a failure, but the reality is that he's not. He's been quite successful...
I pointed out that if he'd just put the money in the bank he'd have as much money. Anything less than around a 7% return on your money means you aren't doing a good job investing it.

At the current returns I am getting off my investments(decent, but not amazing), I'd have the amount of money he has(if I started out with the same), after about 24 years, not after 48 years...

He's not "quite successful". He's mediocre. I am confident that given the same startup money, YOU could do the same in about 25 years, not almost 50. Is mediocrity considered successful, to you?
#15023905
jimjam wrote:Damn! I learned something today. Bankruptcy is a success when Obese Donald is bankrupt

I should know by now that Obese Donald has never ever made a mistake :lol:

When the Wall Street establishment bails itself out at taxpayers' expense and avoids bankruptcy, I suppose you could call that a success too. However, the fact that they did that is a big part of why Donald Trump is president in the first place. Nobody is going to listen to the "experts" as to what makes an "expert." We've had enough of their Kook-aid.

jimjam wrote:Big money requires a safe and predictable environment

It doesn't require it. It prefers it. Big profits come when volatility is higher, but it's unsettling. Options traders are making money now as premiums increase. The geo-economic reality is that tariffs do need to go up, and the US needs to embrace new trading partnerships beyond China. This free trade for China thing has gone on way too long, and we never saw democracy or human rights improvements. Instead, we see companies like Google helping China police its political dissidents and refusing to work with the United States government.

Hindsite wrote:Actually, it was China that reneged on the deal in the beginning. China eventually said they would buy from our farmers and reneged on that deal too.

A lot of people would like to see the US eclipsed as the world's largest economy. However, the strategic situation has changed considerably. The US is more or less independent of Middle East oil, and Iran is picking on oil tankers bound for Europe. The US can engage or not. We have options we didn't have 20 years ago. Trump is showing that we can do without China too. It may be hard on small farmers, but it beats selling out your nation's future to a communist oligarchy.

A buddy of mine really hopes Trump comes up with a China deal to soothe the markets. I think plunging the global economy is worth de-coupling from China. The globalists are the ones who are interested in lining their own pockets and to hell with national cohesion and political stability. So they are the ones who are having a bit of heartburn from Trump's presidency. That's a political trend elsewhere too. So it's really not unique to the United States.
User avatar
By jimjam
#15023912
Hindsite wrote:Actually, it was China that reneged on the deal in the beginning. China eventually said they would buy from our farmers and reneged on that deal too. Is your solution, just to continue to let them screw over us anyway they want by continuing the usual gutless liberal policy of economics?

Of course they reneged. Obese Donald lies and reneges all the time. They are simply feeding Don some of his own medicine. Didn't you read what I posted? China announced today that they will not buy our agricultural products, which dovetails with their talks to buy Russian grain. The Chinese are also going to be buying Iranian oil. Xi is playing chess; Trump is playing checkers.They understand their opponent and will play him like a fiddle. Make the fat guy angry and watch him do something stupid that will weaken his hand. The fat guy did not spend adequate time studying his opponent. He is mostly using his usual M.O. of creating chaos to confuse and scare his opponent and then jumps in with a shit deal. Guess what? China is neither confused nor scared and Don does not have a key element of his over touted deal making skills at his disposal …… attacking his opponent with dozens of killer lawyers.

"the usual gutless liberal policy of economics"? Please spare me the vapid and pedantic rhetoric. Let us not confuse "guts" with poor moves and stupidity. You were nice enough to explain to me the benefits and wonders of bankruptcy and how when Donald declares bankruptcy it is not indicative of a failure but, really, a brilliant business move. Well, lets all sit back and watch while the fat guy engages in the national and world wide equivalent of bankruptcy...… chaos, recession (if we are lucky) and/or depression. China has been making strategic alliances around the world while we set about alienating anyone we could. Recently, in cooperation with the govt of Brazil, China completed a port facility that they will operate. For all their trouble Brazil is an Agra powerhouse. That business is forever gone from our farmers.

The entire world is getting ready to do business around us rather than with us. Is everyone ready for yet another GOP depression?But, of course, since it is Donald ……. all this will be postured as a brilliant business success. :?:
Last edited by jimjam on 06 Aug 2019 16:49, edited 1 time in total.
#15023923
Godstud wrote:I pointed out that if he'd just put the money in the bank he'd have as much money. Anything less than around a 7% return on your money means you aren't doing a good job investing it.


You're completely missing the point.

Yes, he could've had more money if he'd just had someone running his investments. The point you're missing is that having as much money as possible isn't his concern. If it was, he would be taking his annual Presidential salary...

He's not "quite successful". He's mediocre. I am confident that given the same startup money, YOU could do the same in about 25 years, not almost 50. Is mediocrity considered successful, to you?


No, he's pretty fuckin' successful. It's ludicrous to state otherwise...
User avatar
By jimjam
#15023943
blackjack21 wrote:It doesn't require it. It prefers it. Big profits come when volatility is higher, but it's unsettling

Yup ….. you got me on a technicality. Berlin in 1945 had some bitchin real estate deals. In the meantime "In Trump We Trust" is not where I want to put my billions. I'll store it under the floor of my basement until Obese Donald's mess settles down.

blackjack21 wrote: US needs to embrace new trading partnerships beyond China

good luck with that. while we cannot rule it out, it is obvious to the world that Donald is better at reneging on deals, pulling out of them and lying constantly …… most nations and billionaires are now simply waiting for a change in leadership. Donald's chaos driven business environment has it's drawbacks when applied to Planet Earth.

blackjack21 wrote:This free trade for China thing has gone on way too long, and we never saw democracy or human rights improvements. Instead, we see companies like Google helping China police its political dissidents and refusing to work with the United States government.


agree. However Macho Man's bull in the China (pun :lol: ) M.O. don't work so good.
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