On the Insidiousness of "We have 12 Years to Save the Planet." - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15027829
Pants-of-dog wrote:@SolarCross

What is the evidence?

Watch his video if you want to know. I mentioned the fact that AOC's chief of staff said that her "Green New Deal" was not about climate change, but about the redistribution of wealth.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/aoc ... te-change/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... as-economy
#15027950
The argument is that climate change hysteria is a hoax in an attempt to redistribute wealth by the left-wing idiots of the world.


Of course many of Trumps less educated supporters believe it is a hoax. Of course it is not and the evidence is absolutely overwhelming. The shear number of scientists who support the fact (not theory) of man made climate change could not be the result of conspiracy and the number of real scientists who believe it is not true is infinitesimally small.

Then we look at the shear lunacy of the assertion that the fight to control the climate will redistribute wealth at all. It will not. The burden will fall to the poorer people and nations far more than to the wealthy for whom the efforts will be insignificant or a profit center. Let me give you an example.

Starting in January the current Freon used in air conditioners will no longer be produced. Replacing all of the old ones as they fail or even just run low on Freon will be a huge boon to the HVAC industry. I am replacing my AC on Monday. It will cost me $8000.00. I will get a slightly lower bill because the unit I have chosen will be more efficient than the one I have. I can afford this. They store clerk down the street will take a huge hit. Even the cheapest $5000.00 replacement will be devastating for him. (It is 1/4 of an average entry level worker's after tax annual wage.) And I live in a climate where AC is not a luxury but rather a necessity.

So no change. The guy who manufacturers and installs this necessary piece of protecting our ozone layer gets richer and the little guy gets hit hard.

What you don't understand Hindsite, and what I did not understand before I got over a certain level of income, is that expenses, even fairly large ones, do not materially affect one's lifestyle. Even at my top 5% level (which is not wealthy by the standards of the people you refer to) these kinds of expenses might just mean that I keep the Prius or Porsche another year before I trade it. Or that I fly coach rather than business class on my next mini-vacation. If even that. For the very wealthy 1%? Everything is a profit center.

Did you know that even higher taxes are an opportunity for the wealthy classes to make more money? They really only sting people like me and I can't even see the top from where I stand.

You can deny climate change if you want to. It would be like painting stupid on your chest but then under a MAGA hat that would be just redundancy in signage. Your claim that the motivation for fighting climate change is redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor is nonsense. For the very wealthy everything is motivated by money and all movement of money an opportunity. That is why they call it capitalism.
#15027960
I'm amazed by the callousness of some of our Conservative posters when it comes to environmental issues, take electric cars,

yes of course these use huge quantities of rare earth metals, of course they have a huge Carbon budget over their life cycle, but does anyone deny that they improve the air quality in Brentwood. These actors and actress and other celebrities are fighting for us all, they are talking truth to power day after day, film after film, awards ceremony after awards ceremony. i think these modern day heroes deserve better air qualities even if the rest of us have to make some small sacrifices for these visionaries and thought leaders.
#15028020
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Hindsite

Quote the relevant text.

You are not the boss of me.

Rich wrote:These actors and actress and other celebrities are fighting for us all, they are talking truth to power day after day, film after film, awards ceremony after awards ceremony. i think these modern day heroes deserve better air qualities even if the rest of us have to make some small sacrifices for these visionaries and thought leaders.

I guess they also deserve the right to pollute the air with their private jets.

Drlee wrote:Of course many of Trumps less educated supporters believe it is a hoax.

It is actually a ruse in order to take over the economy to redistribute wealth.
Last edited by Hindsite on 20 Aug 2019 18:24, edited 1 time in total.
#15028226
It is actually a ruse in order to take over the economy to redistribute wealth.


And every nation, government and scientist in the entire world is in on the ruse? :lol:

Here is a suggestion. Do not sign up for college courses.

You did not read my post. Or if you did it went right over your head.

It is true that we sometimes call Trump supporters names. Right at the moment "deplorable" is not the word that comes to mind. :moron:
#15028237
Drlee wrote:And every nation, government and scientist in the entire world is in on the ruse?

Some are just too stupid to know. President Trump and his supporters know better.

Drlee wrote:Here is a suggestion. Do not sign up for college courses.

Don't worry. I am not stupid enough to pay for their indoctrination.

Drlee wrote:You did not read my post. Or if you did it went right over your head.

I did not want to lower my head to stick it in the sand.

Drlee wrote:It is true that we sometimes call Trump supporters names. Right at the moment "deplorable" is not the word that comes to mind.

Near genius comes to my mind.
HalleluYah
#15028705
When asked about the evidence presented in a video he posted regarding climate change being a hoax, Hindsite wrote:...AOC's chief of staff said that her "Green New Deal" was not about climate change, but about the redistribution of wealth.

Is this really all the information available in the 50-minute video you posted?

Is the rest of that useful video you posted just some guy saying "totally false" and snearing, for 49 minutes?

Perhaps you should start reading texts and quoting the relevant parts from them, since asking posters to "watch a movie" really doesn't do much to further your own texts on this site.

You could have posted a three-minute trailer for "War of the Worlds" as proof that Martians have attacked England. But, in the end, it's movies that are hoaxes.
#15030456
Drlee wrote:Of course many of Trumps less educated supporters believe it is a hoax.

Many educated people think it is a hoax too. This is probably helped along by proponents of AGW theory buying beach houses and flying around in private jets, while lecturing everyone else not to do such things. Obviously, they don't believe it themselves.

Drlee wrote:Of course it is not and the evidence is absolutely overwhelming. The shear number of scientists who support the fact (not theory) of man made climate change could not be the result of conspiracy and the number of real scientists who believe it is not true is infinitesimally small.

The number of scientists who support the theory (not fact) is not evidence. Climate cannot be replicated in controlled tests, consequently AGW theory can never be more than a theory. It's not reproducible/testable, so it fails a very fundamental scientific test.

Drlee wrote:Then we look at the shear lunacy of the assertion that the fight to control the climate will redistribute wealth at all. It will not.

Humans cannot control the climate. So there will be no actual fight to control the climate. There will only be taxes and regulations designed to control private property. Clever people figure out how to profit from it.

Drlee wrote:Starting in January the current Freon used in air conditioners will no longer be produced. Replacing all of the old ones as they fail or even just run low on Freon will be a huge boon to the HVAC industry. I am replacing my AC on Monday. It will cost me $8000.00. I will get a slightly lower bill because the unit I have chosen will be more efficient than the one I have. I can afford this. They store clerk down the street will take a huge hit. Even the cheapest $5000.00 replacement will be devastating for him. (It is 1/4 of an average entry level worker's after tax annual wage.) And I live in a climate where AC is not a luxury but rather a necessity.

First, Freon hasn't been used in new air conditioning units for at least 10 years. R-22 is still available for ACs built to use it. However, the effort to limit CFCs started decades ago. So this isn't that big of a deal.

Again, this is just a regulatory scam. For example, if you wanted to build a new cable car line in San Francisco, you couldn't. Regulations say the technology is unsafe. However, you can keep running existing lines, because they are grandfathered in and considered part of the city's "heritage." The automotive industry runs on these types of scams to prevent poorer countries from developing viable automotive industry and exporting to first world countries. It is these non-tariff barrier that are used against the US so that countries run massive trade surpluses with the United States.

Drlee wrote:What you don't understand Hindsite, and what I did not understand before I got over a certain level of income, is that expenses, even fairly large ones, do not materially affect one's lifestyle. Even at my top 5% level (which is not wealthy by the standards of the people you refer to) these kinds of expenses might just mean that I keep the Prius or Porsche another year before I trade it. Or that I fly coach rather than business class on my next mini-vacation. If even that. For the very wealthy 1%? Everything is a profit center.

Yes, but that's why it doesn't matter whether AGW is real or not, and why you shouldn't waste your time on that type of debate. I think land use has more of an effect than CO2. I think plastic in the ocean is a bigger problem. Yet, I have 30 solar panels on my roof. I received a 30% tax credit to install the system. I financed the system with 0% down and a 6% note. The $180 a month I pay is a fraction of the $450 a month I would be paying PG&E's extortionate rates, which are allowed by regulation and enhanced by carbon taxes. So the poor dumb guy who either has bad credit or can't do the math and doesn't know the cost differential between owning panels ($0.07-0.09 per KWh) versus the tiered rates of PG&E ($0.19-0.37 per KWh, depending on your usage) don't know how much they'd save by not letting politicians via utilities rape you. Of course, renters are fucked in such a system. Notwithstanding, I have a 20-year warranty on my panels. I've had to replace a microinverter at no cost to me. I have one panel out and one that is "flickering", and they are going to be replaced in the next few weeks. What this is a tax cut for rich people--a way to introduce regression--that is hidden behind AGW virtue signaling. I don't have an electric car, because I work at home and don't commute. The last time I penciled that out, it wasn't worth it unless gas was at $4.50 a gallon. That may change, or may already have changed. I'm sticking with the Bimmer for now.

I placed $100k with a zinc battery manufacturer startup that is in low rate initial production. They are looking to replace lead acid. Advantages are that the batteries are cheaper to produce than lead acid or lithium ion, lighter than lead acid (but heavier than lithium-ion), have a longer service life than lead acid and are not flammable (like lithium ion) or toxic (like lead acid) for the purposes of disposal. Trucking companies like them, because the no-idle regulations mean that truckers need to store some power and lead acid means weight, replacement every 24-months or so, higher cots and higher disposal fees. These zinc batteries will be used for submarines, cellular base stations, and data center backup power too. Now subs will be looking for efficiency, so service life is a big consideration, weight is secondary, and toxicity is becoming more important. Base stations and data centers have to weigh the cost and fire risk of lithium ion and the toxicity of lead acid, but they are immobile so weight is not a consideration. All this stuff gets considered pretty carefully. This is an LRIP situation, but zinc batteries may replace lead acid in cars too. I'll probably be out of the investment long before that happens. It's interesting the types of people you meet in these private placements.

Drlee wrote:Did you know that even higher taxes are an opportunity for the wealthy classes to make more money? They really only sting people like me and I can't even see the top from where I stand.

Yes. Regulatory burdens are a market opportunity too. I stand to at least double my investment within 18 months.

Drlee wrote:Your claim that the motivation for fighting climate change is redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor is nonsense. For the very wealthy everything is motivated by money and all movement of money an opportunity. That is why they call it capitalism.

You are right within local markets. Within international markets, countries like China do not bear the same environmental responsibilities--even as the second largest economy in the world, we're supposed to believe they are still a poor developing country and imposing burdens on them would not be fair.

Rich wrote:i think these modern day heroes deserve better air qualities even if the rest of us have to make some small sacrifices for these visionaries and thought leaders.

The market opportunity and the significant environmental gains come in niche markets that are quite dirty. For example, replacing diesel tractor trailers at the Port of Los Angeles/Long Beach would reduce the asthma risks associated with diesel particulates. At the port, they don't have to travel long distances. So they can swap out batteries pretty quickly. Impose some regulations, and you have a niche market to make money and the virtue signaling covers up the fact that it's a scam for people in the know to make money. Consumers get the bill, and they believe they are "doing good" by paying more.

Hindsite wrote:I guess they also deserve the right to pollute the air with their private jets.

"Reserve" the right, not deserve the right. The motherfuckers actually write off the cost of the flights when they are doing "charity" work like working toward clean air. These people are that cynical.
#15030459
blackjack21 wrote:Many educated people think it is a hoax too. This is probably helped along by proponents of AGW theory buying beach houses and flying around in private jets, while lecturing everyone else not to do such things. Obviously, they don't believe it themselves.

Yeah, like Al Gore.

blackjack21 wrote:Humans cannot control the climate. So there will be no actual fight to control the climate. There will only be taxes and regulations designed to control private property. Clever people figure out how to profit from it.

Yeah, like Al Gore. :lol:

blackjack21 wrote:First, Freon hasn't been used in new air conditioning units for at least 10 years. R-22 is still available for ACs built to use it. However, the effort to limit CFCs started decades ago. So this isn't that big of a deal.

An AC repairman told me that R-22 will not be made for sale after this year, so when their stock is gone that's it. He said the price of the R-22 is already going sky high. I don't think it bothers them, since it will give them the excuse to sell us the new AC units.
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