Vast protest in Hong Kong against extradition law - Page 35 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15031968
I didn't say he was the victim, I said they never told him exactly why he was arrested and why he couldn't go that way.

I think they were right to arrest him for disorderly/drunken conduct, but he was clearly never told this was the reason.
#15031980
skinster wrote:Cops - not the ones he pushed at and told to fuck off - said he couldn't pass an area, he was aggressive, pushed through and was arrested.

Also, he's funded by the NED and at the beginning of the clip is trying to get guys on a train to riot. :lol:



:excited:


In your defense, I'm sure the CIA is involved in this in some way. However, I think the concerns/fears that Hong Kongers have around their loss of freedoms are very valid, and very real too.

I do believe these protest would be happening even if the CIA were not involved, but I'm sure they are helping to encourage them to continue. That said, lots of people around the world are also encouraging them to protest. I don't believe the CIAs involvement invalidates any of that. I suspect, that is where we disagree on this.
#15032102
colliric wrote:I didn't say he was the victim, I said they never told him exactly why he was arrested and why he couldn't go that way.

I think they were right to arrest him for disorderly/drunken conduct, but he was clearly never told this was the reason.

Are you quite familiar with Hong Kong laws and quite sure that the police have to tell you why you are being arrested? Can you cite the statute? I'm guessing no to both.

The thing about you must be informed of why you're arrested is largely a concoction of American TV shows.

I unsuccessfully tried out his defense when I was arrested in America for the first time when I was 13 (I was eventually charged with disorderly conduct for impeding traffic. There was a new law that made skateboarding illegal anywhere but the crosswalks and so I decided to go skate the crosswalk in front of the cops to protest).

What's more, I have 10 years in Asia, and being drunk in public is A okay.
#15032204
Crantag wrote:Are you quite familiar with Hong Kong laws and quite sure that the police have to tell you why you are being arrested? Can you cite the statute? I'm guessing no to both.

The thing about you must be informed of why you're arrested is largely a concoction of American TV shows.

I unsuccessfully tried out his defense when I was arrested in America for the first time when I was 13 (I was eventually charged with disorderly conduct for impeding traffic. There was a new law that made skateboarding illegal anywhere but the crosswalks and so I decided to go skate the crosswalk in front of the cops to protest).

What's more, I have 10 years in Asia, and being drunk in public is A okay.



I am no lawyer but the HK bill of rights does seem to indicate that a person is entitled to know why they are being arrested at the time of arrest.

https://www.elegislation.gov.hk/hk/cap383?pmc=0&m=0&pm=1

Article 5
Liberty and security of person
(1)Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention. No one shall be deprived of his liberty except on such grounds and in accordance with such procedure as are established by law.
(2)Anyone who is arrested shall be informed, at the time of arrest, of the reasons for his arrest and shall be promptly informed of any charges against him.
(3)Anyone arrested or detained on a criminal charge shall be brought promptly before a judge or other officer authorized by law to exercise judicial power and shall be entitled to trial within a reasonable time or to release. It shall not be the general rule that persons awaiting trial shall be detained in custody, but release may be subject to guarantees to appear for trial, at any other stage of the judicial proceedings, and, should occasion arise, for execution of the judgment.
(4)Anyone who is deprived of his liberty by arrest or detention shall be entitled to take proceedings before a court, in order that that court may decide without delay on the lawfulness of his detention and order his release if the detention is not lawful.
(5)Anyone who has been the victim of unlawful arrest or detention shall have an enforceable right to compensation.
#15032286
Another weekend, another HK protest in Australia. Many minorities are also protesting in support. Many of these groups have been sidelined in recent decades by the establishment in order to avoid offending the CCP.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-07/hong-kong-solidarity-in-australia-with-uyghurs-tibetans-diaspora/11420386

How Hong Kong's protest movement is forging solidarity with Australia's Uyghurs and Tibetans

By Erin Handley and Iris Zhao
Updated about 2 hours ago

Looking down a narrow Melbourne street, you view a crowd of people holding anti-China banners and Australian flags.


Key points:

Uyghurs, Tibetans and others are uniting in solidarity with Hong Kong
The say the Chinese Communist Party is repeating patterns of oppression
But pro-Beijing protesters say Hong Kong is "none of their business"
On the surface they might not have much in common, but recent events have given them a common cause — solidarity with Hong Kong protesters.

Hong Kong's long months of increasingly violent protests have galvanised disparate groups in Australia, many of whom have embittered histories with the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

They see parallels between China's treatment of Tibet, its internment of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang, its "aggression" in the South China Sea, and the crisis of democracy unfolding in Hong Kong.

....




And a quote from Vietnamese protesters.

Among those most vocal are the Vietnamese diaspora, who chanted: "The only good communist is a dead communist".


:lol:


I think it is time to start discussing a roadmap to ending communist holdout governments in the Far East. It isn’t in anyone’s interest to see a repeat of the end of the Soviet Union and the resulting crony capitalism. A transition must involve establishing a functional independent judiciary before ending communist party rule.

@JohnRawls

What are your thoughts on transitioning from a communist absolutist state to a democratic state?
#15032431
@foxdemon

Its hard to answer this. Theoretically it is possible but i assume it would also require going to social democracy of sorts. The problem with that is that other communist states will heavily crack down on you if you try to do that since it would be considered "Anti-communist" or "Capitalist" or "Imperialist influence".(Venezuela - Cuba is an example) Depends on the flavour of the day. Czechoslovakia tried it. Most of the people did support Communism/Socialist in Czechoslovakia at the time and they didn't really wanna shift to social democracy of sorts but instead wanted to try to implement the democratic model within the communist/socialist framework. Well, the Soviets put them out of their misery pretty fast even though the people were communists and the leaders. This was not a capitalist conspiracy of any sort.

For China it is a bit easier since nobody can really crack down on China from the communist camp. (Since the camp is pretty much dead) This is not an easy decision to make though since it kinda requires the people in power to surrender their power in many aspects: legal, financial, personal standing etc. Also, even Karl Marxes theory states, that such developments are heavily dependant on the overall development of the country.

China, as it is now, is not more developed compared to USSR as it is now. (Average statistics) Too many factors are against China in this regard. They can't do it in an instant like Czechoslovakia tried and would have succeeded if the SU didn't get involved. But they can do it steadily no doubt over 1 or 2 decades. There needs to be a will for this which there is none because it requires giving away power to the people and this only comes with some form of understanding between leadership and people. Currently the people can't protest/voice their opinion so there is no real understanding and its a dictate. I think something negative needs to happen in China for this protest to start. Hong Kong protests spreading out of Hong Kong is one such possibility but not really likely. Perhaps when the mainlanders will get sick of this system also.
#15032664
Central was shut down today too. The Tsim Sha Tsui waterfront and oceanside malls were sparsely populated, very few of the usual mainland tourists that make this place work. I'm not sure if it's just because of the subway issues or if the tourists are coming less. If it's the latter it could really start to put a pinch on Hong Kong's economy. The HKD has been pegged to the USD for quite awhile and such an arrangement usually requires economic stability. I'm baffled all around.

First, the Chinese authorities shocked me by capitulating at all. Won't the protestors just expect to win again the next time extradition is raised, which it has to be if Hong Kong is ever to truly become a part of greater China?

Second, I'm shocked that the average Jiu out here didn't realize that it would be smart to take this win. Or at least I was shocked for about a day, I always forget how a normal human mind works because I'm so weird. By now they are excited, it has the momentum of a broad social movement. Thug life types are getting away with breaking shit and loving it. The smart path is unlikely to be followed at this late juncture.

Chapter Three: I could speculate on various "hard power" solutions but when I noticed the decrease in tourists, a "soft power" outcome occurred to me. If these tourists stopped coming for a couple months, Hong Kong is so dependent on them that it would practically bring the city crashing down for them to be removed. There is also no international outcry that could be made either. Saying "you stopped sending most tourists!" is about as savage a criticism as saying that Trump used a sharpie.

IMHO this is the smartest thing China could do and living here, my sentiment is mostly that I don't want any more people to get hurt. I'm not out here because I love democracy or whatever, at the same time it's impossible not to empathize with people when you see how genuinely emotional they are and I wish that an amicable solution regarding how these two groups of people who need each other could be found.
#15035256
Right now, PRC is preparing for its upcoming National Week holiday starting on October 1st as it celebrates its 70th anniversary. The internet in general has been getting hit hard and the government is enabling VPN blocks which will go into full effect for the duration of the holiday, along with a week or two after it ends, as normally happens here. It’s a strain for them to be able to block VPN usage in China, but they always do it during National Week, June 4th week, CNY, and whenever Xi is doing something important.

With troops waiting in Shenzhen, I would be surprised if China did not crack down on the Hong Kong protesters before National Week happens, because it would be an enormous loss of face for the CPC to have unrest in Hong Kong while PRC celebrates its most important political holiday. If PRC does nothing in the coming week, then Hong Kong will be left to its own devices for the time being for the short term, which seems like an unlikely decision considering the city’s importance and the economic and social impact of the protests.
#15035270
Bulaba Jones wrote:Right now, PRC is preparing for its upcoming National Week holiday starting on October 1st as it celebrates its 70th anniversary. The internet in general has been getting hit hard and the government is enabling VPN blocks which will go into full effect for the duration of the holiday, along with a week or two after it ends, as normally happens here. It’s a strain for them to be able to block VPN usage in China, but they always do it during National Week, June 4th week, CNY, and whenever Xi is doing something important.

With troops waiting in Shenzhen, I would be surprised if China did not crack down on the Hong Kong protesters before National Week happens, because it would be an enormous loss of face for the CPC to have unrest in Hong Kong while PRC celebrates its most important political holiday. If PRC does nothing in the coming week, then Hong Kong will be left to its own devices for the time being for the short term, which seems like an unlikely decision considering the city’s importance and the economic and social impact of the protests.

I've been hearing the same talk, and my VPN has also been shit lately.

There's definitely a possibility that China will crack down on Hong Kong before National Day. Is it probable? I don't really think so, but I'm confident that it's an option being considered. The CPC definitely doesn't want a big subversive showing by Hong Kong protesters on National Day, and I certainly see an imminent crackdown as potentially in the cards.
#15035275
In light of these two posts, stay safe over National Day, @Patrickov.

I could have Stockholm syndrome, but I tend to feel that the Hong Kong protesters have gone too far.

And I don't know that I agree with @Patrickov that often, about issues entirely unrelated to this situation.

But he's one of Pofo's sons, and I'm saying be safe, man. Maybe stay home that day. Or don't, it's your call.
#15035359
https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/le ... dba1929fe9

The drama continues....

Personally I believe the Communist Party doesn't give a shit about Hong Kong and they're just callously letting things burn.

I don't believe there will be any intervention anymore. They're clearly callously deciding to do nothing and ride it out.
#15035364
Crantag wrote:In light of these two posts, stay safe over National Day, @Patrickov.

I could have Stockholm syndrome, but I tend to feel that the Hong Kong protesters have gone too far.

And I don't know that I agree with @Patrickov that often, about issues entirely unrelated to this situation.

But he's one of Pofo's sons, and I'm saying be safe, man. Maybe stay home that day. Or don't, it's your call.



I have a job so I never participate in any protests that could turn violent. The police is doing their best not to let those peaceful ones be conducted legally though, so we might have few choices in due time.

P.S. Had a busy month so I only get to see my yellow card today.
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