Trump hands over Syria to Turkey then threatens to "totally destroy & obliterate" her economy if... - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15040494
@blackjack21
As usual, you fail to make any coherent argument. You said Trump is a veritable cream puff compared to Obama, and that is just total bullshit. Trump bullies the world around to a much larger degree.

blackjack21 wrote:That would be true of globalists and their talking heads in the media.


Jeez, you're fucking clueless.

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#15040495
blackjack21 wrote:I left the Republican party in 2006 over immigration, because it frankly made no sense whatsoever to have a huge undefended border while fighting overseas. When they started calling everyone who disagreed "racist," that was when I had enough of the Republican party.

I agree with most of what you said except for this. There have been many from each party that wanted to allow cheap immigrant labor on a temporary basis. However, it has been the Democrats that are for open borders and have been calling everyone who disagreed "racist. That is even been happening right here on this forum. I have been called a racist by the left for having a different opinion.
Last edited by Hindsite on 08 Oct 2019 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
#15040496
Rugoz wrote:@blackjack21
As usual, you fail to make any coherent argument. You said Trump is a veritable cream puff compared to Obama, and that is just total bullshit. Trump bullies the world around to a much larger degree.

Trump has not displaced millions of people as Obama did. I would characterize that as both a substantive and coherent argument.

Rugoz wrote:Jeez, you're fucking clueless.

Yes. We know the Europeans like Democrats for some reason... Or at least the European media is capable of creating phony polls to that effect. However, Obama's policies and his friends in Europe created an immigration situation in Europe that has led to Brexit/UKIP/Brexit Party, Matteo Salvini and Lege, Marine Le Pen, AfD, Geert Wilders, Sebastian Kurz, Gilets Jaunes and on and on. You might be right. I might be fucking clueless. Then again, there do appear to be some political events in Europe that suggest that such trivial polls aren't particularly meaningful.
#15040499
blackjack21 wrote:Trump has not displaced millions of people as Obama did. I would characterize that as both a substantive and coherent argument.


I completely disagree with your assessment that the Obama admin is responsible for the civil war in Syria. That is simplistic bullshit. Moreover, Trump must be seen in the context of the time. He's overall a more aggressive president, it's just that military adventures have become very unpopular.

blackjack21 wrote:Yes. We know the Europeans like Democrats for some reason... Or at least the European media is capable of creating phony polls to that effect. However, Obama's policies and his friends in Europe created an immigration situation in Europe that has led to Brexit/UKIP/Brexit Party, Matteo Salvini and Lege, Marine Le Pen, AfD, Geert Wilders, Sebastian Kurz, Gilets Jaunes and on and on. You might be right. I might be fucking clueless. Then again, there do appear to be some political events in Europe that suggest that such trivial polls aren't particularly meaningful.


Just because many Europeans vote right-wing doesn't mean they like that hideous manchild of yours.
#15040507
From my understanding of what is quite mainstream history, Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds.

He gassed the Kurds after a revolt, which was encouraged by the US.

The US had promised to support the Kurds in the revolt. But then they changed their mind.

This isn't leftist Marxist history, this is mainstream history.

Trump and Steven Miller and Jarred Kushner don't understand it of course, but the Kurds do.
#15040521
@blackjack21 , continuation of our discussion;

That's more or less the case. Trump is recalibrating US foreign policy toward realism. The US doesn't have a compelling state interest to remain in Syria--although, clearly the neoconservatives have other ideas.


We'll see what happens. The drive towards the ''glories'' of Empire is a hard habit to break.


While Nemesis was a goddess, I often think of Trump as the Nemesis of the neoconservatives.


Fortunately most of the GOP base is weary of these wars.


That seems to be the case, but their calculations seem to be way off to the point it is difficult to take them seriously anymore. It doesn't help them that they've lied with such alacrity that people would prefer Donald Trump to what they've had to offer. At least Donald Trump hasn't started WWIII or created huge humanitarian disasters.


Indeed, their obvious hatred and arrogant condescension for regular working people is visibly palpable.


Regarding my view of half the American Population as Insane and the other half terminally Stupid;

Can you elaborate and clarify?


Sure. The Liberals in America are insane. Anti-White, Anti-Christian, Anti-Heterosexual Male, Pro-Abortion, Pro-Sexual Degeneracy and Pro-Lawlessness. The ''Conservatives'' in America are Stupid, because they favor Big Business over Working People, Israel and the Oil Sheiks First in Foreign Policy instead of National interests, and do nothing in essence about the evils I described about the Liberals, out of cowardice.


Let's face it B-21; we're sailing into uncharted waters here, and neither side has true regard for the US Constitution (nor can they; it's a dead document based on idealistic theories that by now are proven failures). I do not see genuine unrigged elections in the United States after 2024, either way. I believe Trump won in a landslide in 2016 actually, and the Democrats engaged in massive fraud in a desperate attempt to win. This time, the GOP will be better prepared.

This is why the Democrats want to arrest and impeach him, preferring to kill Trump, his family, and his cabinet officials while in custody and intimidating the Congress and Courts in Washington D.C. with rent-a-mobs. They want Revolution and Civil War. This is not hyperbole, this is quite true and something they've been angling to do since 2016.
#15040525
Rugoz wrote:I completely disagree with your assessment that the Obama admin is responsible for the civil war in Syria. That is simplistic bullshit.

At least I've detailed some vignettes of people that had something to do with it and why I hold the opinions I do. What are you offering?

Rugoz wrote:Moreover, Trump must be seen in the context of the time. He's overall a more aggressive president, it's just that military adventures have become very unpopular.

That's asinine. Trump ran on defeating ISIS and then getting out of these Middle East wars. He ran as a Republican condemning Bush for the Iraq War. The idea that Trump is more aggressive than Obama or Bush is preposterous. Bush famously invaded Iraq, which Obama condemned. Hillary Clinton voted for it--coincident with her husband implementing the "regime change" policy for Iraq in 1998--and then condemned Bush which she later acknowledged was just for partisan reasons. Trump is talking about removing military forces from Syria and you guys are bashing him as some sort of hyper aggressive guy when he's doing the diametric opposite of what you claim is utterly baffling.

Rugoz wrote:Just because many Europeans vote right-wing doesn't mean they like that hideous manchild of yours.

At the end of the day, nobody really likes politicians. You can create a cult of personality as Obama did with a well plied media, but there are hundreds of thousands of Syrians who are no less dead and many more who are no longer in Syria thanks in no small part to Obama and his policies.

Crantag wrote:From my understanding of what is quite mainstream history, Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds.

He gassed the Kurds after a revolt, which was encouraged by the US.

Can we be more specific about that? George H.W. Bush's administration encouraged it.

Crantag wrote:The US had promised to support the Kurds in the revolt. But then they changed their mind.

I don't recall Bush claiming he was going to support the Kurds. I do recall him airlifting humanitarian aid after Saddam assaulted them.

Crantag wrote:Trump and Steven Miller and Jarred Kushner don't understand it of course, but the Kurds do.

Trump did not offer to support the Kurds in their quest for an ethno state either. He was happy to help them militarily in the fight against ISIS.

I don't think the Kurds are likely to believe that a country on the complete other side of the planet has their best interests in mind. Geopolitics involves an intersection of interests. Like marriage law, it has nothing to do with love.
#15040568
blackjack21 wrote:At least I've detailed some vignettes of people that had something to do with it and why I hold the opinions I do. What are you offering?


"vignettes of people", lol. I'm not going to discuss the war in Syrian here. It has been done ad absurdum and would take too much time.

blackjack21 wrote:Trump is talking about removing military forces from Syria and you guys are bashing him as some sort of hyper aggressive guy when he's doing the diametric opposite of what you claim is utterly baffling.


Straw man, I didn't say he's aggressive because of his removal of military forces from Syria, though I don't see how removing 1000 troops is doing anything but fucking over the Kurds. It's not like Trump is a peacenik who dissolves military bases in the ME or stops supporting the Saudis in Yemen in a conflict with up to 100k deaths and millions displaced.
#15040610
Rugoz wrote:Straw man, I didn't say he's aggressive because of his removal of military forces from Syria, though I don't see how removing 1000 troops is doing anything but fucking over the Kurds. It's not like Trump is a peacenik who dissolves military bases in the ME or stops supporting the Saudis in Yemen in a conflict with up to 100k deaths and millions displaced.

As I said, nothing prevents any other NATO country from going in there and helping the Kurds if they want to. Why do you think the US should always have to be point on these things? Syria was a French mandate (and Lebanon). Wouldn't it make more sense for France to take up the mantle here?
#15040616
Rugoz wrote:Straw man, I didn't say he's aggressive because of his removal of military forces from Syria, though I don't see how removing 1000 troops is doing anything but fucking over the Kurds.

President Trump is removing our troops from harms way of a large military operation coming from Turkey, which is a NATO ally. We helped the Kurds eliminate the ISIS caliphate, which they had also been fighting. However, we have no treaty with the Kurds, like we do with the Turks. Pulling out our troops is simply the sensible thing to do under the circumstances.
Praise the Lord.
#15040737
blackjack21 wrote:As I said, nothing prevents any other NATO country from going in there and helping the Kurds if they want to. Why do you think the US should always have to be point on these things? Syria was a French mandate (and Lebanon). Wouldn't it make more sense for France to take up the mantle here?


True enough, but as I said, the US is not withdrawing from the region, so it might as well leave 1000 troops there.

Hindsite wrote:President Trump is removing our troops from harms way of a large military operation coming from Turkey, which is a NATO ally.


That presumes Turkey would invade if the US kept its troops there, which is incredibly unlikely.

Hindsite wrote:We helped the Kurds eliminate the ISIS caliphate, which they had also been fighting.

More like the Kurds did all the fighting while the US dropped some bombs from a safe distance.



There's nothing sensible about letting Erdogan and his Islamist militas destroy your most important secular ally in the region.
#15040852
Rugoz wrote:There's nothing sensible about letting Erdogan and his Islamist militas destroy your most important secular ally in the region.

You are assuming that is going to happen. Let's see what happens. This should be a good test to see if Erdogan is a friend or an enemy of President Trump.
#15040894
The Kurds between conflict and democracy in Rojava including Kobane
Aug 2, 2019

What will happen next to the Kurds in northern Syria? All of the parties to the conflict - the Americans, Assad’s regime, Russia, Iran and Turkey, Kurds - have their own agendas for the war-torn region. But what do the Kurds themselves think about their future?

On 31 March 2019, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), supported by the USA, liberated the last bastion of the so-called "Islamic State." After years of bloody clashes, the Kurds and their Arab and Assyrian allies had won a decisive military victory over the IS. But what comes next in the Kurdish region in northern Syria? What political and social developments are the Kurds aiming for there? Will threats from Turkey and the ongoing confrontation with the Syrian regime force them to relinquish the gains they made in the bloody war against IS? A team of reporters went to Rojava - the name the Kurds have given their northern Syrian enclave - to find out for themselves. The report looks at various aspects of the social and political experiment that they began years ago, which they now want to advance again. The trip to Rojava also reunited the reporters with places and people that they had encountered during the war
#15040936
Rugoz wrote:Now imagine there are Americans reading those tweets thinking "that's the man I want to be our president", and we have such Americans here on Pofo.

It's incomprehensible to any normal human being.


So ... you rather would have wanted Clinton who wanted to install a nofly zone over Syria, while the russian air force was active in the area ?

Nobody wanted Trump, but the damn alternative was Clinton.

Clinton.

Who made an election campaign to the far right of Trump, ignored half of the swing states completely, had destroyed Lybia under Obama with exactly that nofly zone, had talked about murdering Assange with drones, recently was in the press for not regarding security protocols with sensitive data, calls herself a capitalist (as opposed to, I dunno, democrat) and is by the way also a mulitmillionaire, so she doesnt even have the advantage over Trump not to be one of the oligarchs.

So yeah, I still take Trump over that any day.
#15040943
skinster wrote:America, Turkey, Israel etc. should gtfo of Syria.

Kurds should've allied with the SAA when that was repeatedly offered, why they thought picking the U.S. for anything was a good idea is beyond me...

They promised them more, I guess. The Kurds are used to fighting the Turks, however, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were prepared for them.

Hindsite wrote:This should be a good test to see if Erdogan is a friend or an enemy of President Trump.

I don't see how the Donald is relevant here, Turkey's supposed to be a US ally, which they hardly are anymore, no need for any test to see that. The Americans make a big strategic mistake with dumping the Kurds, although they may keep supporting them behind the scenes. Not that Trump has a strategy for anything else than himself. The Kurds were great allies and abandoning them like that tells nothing good about American reliability in general.
#15040998
Negotiator wrote:So ... you rather would have wanted Clinton who wanted to install a nofly zone over Syria, while the russian air force was active in the area ?

Nobody wanted Trump, but the damn alternative was Clinton.

Clinton.

Who made an election campaign to the far right of Trump, ignored half of the swing states completely, had destroyed Lybia under Obama with exactly that nofly zone, had talked about murdering Assange with drones, recently was in the press for not regarding security protocols with sensitive data, calls herself a capitalist (as opposed to, I dunno, democrat) and is by the way also a mulitmillionaire, so she doesnt even have the advantage over Trump not to be one of the oligarchs.

So yeah, I still take Trump over that any day.


We have enough people here who think Trump is a good president and not only marginally better than the alternative.

Also, like 0.1% of Americans preferred Trump to Clinton because she was supposedly more of a hawk.
Last edited by Rugoz on 10 Oct 2019 17:06, edited 1 time in total.
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