skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/ajitxsingh/status/1184228079469842432?s=20
Two wrongs do not make a right. Is this Lebensunwertes Leben using this to justify oppression against us?
Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...
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skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/ajitxsingh/status/1184228079469842432?s=20
skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/ajitxsingh/status/1184228079469842432?s=20
benpenguin wrote:Well... a lot of the protesters are ignorant, xenophobic and all round pretty clueless about China and international politics.
But so is every average Joe on earth - most of us don't read extensively on history and politics and just do what our gut tell us. It was the inept and amoral ruling class in Hong Kong, and the suffocating politics driven by US China rivalry, that had in Hong Kong up in arms. It's their shit to fix, and I wish CY Leung, the police and the triads to burn in hell.
I also wish the protestors to pick up a history book or two once in a while. But does it matter what I wish?
Atlantis wrote:You are always quick to blame everybody, except for the real culprit: Beijing's totalitarian rulers who are on autopilot to squash the little freedom people in Hong Kong have.Well, I am usually reluctant to assign blame to China - guess I have a soft spot for them. My view for them is more of a mixed bag. Quoting from myself:
benpenguin wrote:...I don't think most Hong Konger - even the pro-Beijing bootlickers, fully understand what Beijing wants. China is a powerful empire, and powerful empires throughout history are all very difficult to deal with. But as a city state sitting on an empire's border, your fate really depends on how you deal with her.
China does not want to destroy Hong Kong culture (they don't even care what it is supposed to be), nor impose the same system - they simply want a Hong Kong that will never be used against the motherland, nor harbour her enemies. Hence they wish to teach our kids her version of history instead of her enemies, her achievements and to negotiate a way to catch her criminals and enemies. For any other country, these are reasonable expectations. But this is China, and for her there is a special place of fear and hatred in Hong Kong, and that some of us will never accept her.
China was usually patient - Deng, Jiang and Hu are willing to take it slow with regards to Hong Kong, there are occasional conflicts but the CCP was usually quite gentle comparing to how they handle mainland. But emperor Xi has no such patience, nor does his enemies. He will not accept disloyal subjects while he is fighting his enemies both internal and external. Thus starting CY Leung, the hawkish pro-Beijing faction is born in Hong Kong.
From their perspective, Hong Kong is a subject of China and must know its place by any means necessary - lawful or not. They are willing to go to any lengths none of their predecessors have dared - violent police, triads - whatever means necessary.
The emperor made us an offer. "You want to choose your CE? Fine. You may choose from one of my approved subjects - you can have your voice in politics if you so wish - as long as my will is obeyed." For me, this offer would have solved many problems, but for my folks - simply having a China element within our politics is unacceptable, let alone letting them have the final say - well, this is exactly why we are not allowed universal suffrage in the first place. But I digress...
Presvias wrote:True, but you can be aware of the limitations of your own knowledge (despite whatever rubbish putdowns some try to come out with -- as many dialectical cripples often do on this irksome site.. not referring to you, of course) and it can help you not fall for CIA propaganda, or, you know, not intimidatewives/kids of police, or to not attack/harass mainlanders or their biz/property when they've done nothing wrong.
Presvias wrote:I think that stuff is quite amoral too. All this rhetoric about blood, guts, everyone burning in lakes of fire, etc, it's like an episode of Angel where the world's ending. If you think such nasty thoughts and dwell on them, they might come to fruition... like I said to the guy before when he willed Trump to send troops over... be ever so careful what you wish for, because it might just come true.
Worshipping bad meme stuff, even as a joke, is a bad idea. That pepe rubbish has bad psychological connotations whether the protesters are aware of it or not, as does the "illuminati pyramid" and "missing eye" pepe variations, those things elicit negative reactions I think, nothing is about asking for positive change or a great reformation...it's negative Trumpian burn burn burn, lakes of fire, destroy the establishment, tear it all down. An apocalyptic episode of Angel... it's not going to lead to good things unless the protesters WANT GOOD THINGS and not just negative, oppositional stuff.
What do you expect, when they're facing the march towards the full implementation of the demonic social credit system, full extradition law and total repression?
No human being deserves that.
The West is terrible, but one can surely understand why any reasonable adult would be driven out of fear & desperation, to try to halt the advance of these draconian measures for as long as they possibly can?
I believe there are very intelligent folks out there who'll rightly play the west and china off against each other; obtaining max autonomy & freedom as is possible under Chinese rule and halting the march of harmonisation with 'mainland' laws etc; whilst rebuffing the west's attempts to get their sticky paws on Chinese power..and possibly on HK.
I sincerely wish them all the best in that endeavour. I think it's the best they can hope for.
Obviously, sanctions by the west, or worse, war, would be terrible. Secession would also imho be bad news... and China would never allow it without a fight.
Just my opinion as a gwailu.
Presvias wrote:this is what I kind of hoped might happen...Well, both sides want a bloodbath on the other side, so they will both get it. Looking at the momentum now, it's just a cycle of escalation and vendetta. It will serve no purpose other than to prolong the conflict, and eventually exhaust the revolution. Hong Kong's government is already beaten and broken, but it still cannot fall because of China. Fighting it further is simply hitting your head at a brick wall.
benpenguin wrote:If the aim is to open fire and kill HK protesters, then the police can do it. What would sending tanks achieve?
foxdemon wrote:They could have done the same thing during the Tiananmen Square protests, but they sent the tanks in. Why did they do so then?
foxdemon wrote:But what of the news article? Would there be sympathy in the mainland if the government used force to crush the protests?
benpenguin wrote:The bill is to sanction personnel in HK government and subject Hong Kong's special status to a yearly review. The first part will go ahead to which everyone is celebrating, the second part is just not going to happen.
Advanced as it is, Shanghai and Shenzhen is under Chinese law that Western capitalists cannot operate with confidence - Hong Kong however, is still essential to them as a secure (read: lawless) money gateway, they will not touch Hong Kong as long as they still want to do business with China.
benpenguin wrote:Long story short, lawless as in well designed loopholes in commercial law for rich people to abuse, and also a tax haven. So everybody can park their money here - it's how Hong Kong got rich!
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