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#15045793
Epstein’s Autopsy ‘Points to Homicide,’ Pathologist Hired by Brother Claims
The New York City medical examiner strongly disputed the claim that evidence from the autopsy suggested strangulation.

A forensic pathologist hired by Jeffrey Epstein’s brother disputed the official finding in the autopsy of his death, claiming on Wednesday that the evidence suggested that he did not take his own life but may have been strangled.

The New York City medical examiner’s office concluded in August that Mr. Epstein had hanged himself in his jail cell while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges.

But the private pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden, said on the morning TV show “Fox & Friends” that Mr. Epstein, 66, experienced a number of injuries — among them a broken bone in his neck — that “are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation.”

“I think that the evidence points to homicide rather than suicide,” said Dr. Baden, who observed the autopsy done by city officials.

Dr. Baden, a former New York City medical examiner and a Fox News contributor, added, “I’ve not seen in 50 years where that occurred in a suicidal hanging case.”

The findings by Dr. Baden were strongly disputed by the city’s chief medical examiner, Dr. Barbara Sampson, who previously ruled that Mr. Epstein’s death on Aug. 10 in the Metropolitan Correctional Center was a suicide.

“I stand firmly behind our determination of the cause and manner of death in this case,” Dr. Sampson said in an interview on Wednesday. She added: “In general, fractures of the hyoid bone and the cartilage can be seen in suicides and homicides.”

The hyoid is a bone near the Adam’s apple.

Dr. Sampson also dismissed Dr. Baden’s contention that the circumstances around Mr. Epstein’s death suggested other people may have been involved. She said her office had done a “complete investigation,” taking into consideration information gathered by law enforcement in making the determination.

“No one finding can be taken in isolation,” she said.

Dr. Baden served briefly as New York City’s medical examiner. He was provisionally appointed to the position in 1978 and dismissed just a year later, by Mayor Edward I. Koch. In later years, he went on to work as a consultant on a number of high-profile cases.

On Wednesday, Dr. Baden said Mr. Epstein had “three fractures in the hyoid bone, the thyroid cartilage.” He said those injuries were “very unusual for suicide and more indicative of strangulation — homicidal strangulation.”

The autopsy also showed Mr. Epstein had several bones broken in his neck. The city medical examiner said Mr. Epstein’s death was “hanging” and the manner was “suicide.”

Before that determination was made public, an article in The Washington Post noted Mr. Epstein’s injuries included a broken thyoid bone, an injury that could have been a sign of strangulation, as well as suicide by hanging.

The article helped fuel conspiracy theories that speculated Mr. Epstein may have been murdered in order to prevent him from ensnaring his coterie of rich and powerful friends into his legal woes.

At the time, several medical officials cautioned against relying solely on the broken hyoid as evidence of strangulation. “It’s not a slam dunk,” Marcella Sorg, a forensic anthropologist, said in an interview. She said a broken hyoid is “a sign of neck trauma” that can occur in both strangulation and hanging cases.

Dr. Burton Bentley II, the head of Elite Medical Experts, a consulting firm based in Arizona, echoed that skepticism. “It’s not a hundred percent,” he said. “It’s not even going to get us to ninety.”

Mr. Epstein’s death led to several investigations into how a high-profile inmate apparently killed himself just weeks after he was placed on suicide watch after a previous failed attempt to take his own life.

Mr. Epstein was a wealthy financier and convicted sex offender. He used his money and connections to get a widely criticized plea deal in Florida in 2008 after several teenage girls gave sworn statements to the police stating that Mr. Epstein had sexually abused them at his mansion in Palm Beach, Fla. He spent 13 months in jail, but was allowed to leave for 12 hours a day, six days a week.

In July, federal officials arrested Mr. Epstein at Teterboro Airport in New Jersey and charged him with sex trafficking. He was accused of luring numerous underage girls to his homes in New York City and Florida then coercing them to perform sex acts with him for money.

A spokesman for the United States attorney’s office in Manhattan had no comment on Dr. Baden’s statements about Mr. Epstein’s death.

The criminal case against Mr. Epstein was closed after his death, but in the final court hearing in August, Mr. Epstein’s lawyers said they were not satisfied with the city medical examiner’s findings.

On Wednesday, one of the lawyers, Martin Weinberg, said Dr. Baden’s comments on Fox were consistent with the concerns he had previously raised.

This is hardly the first time Dr. Baden has generated headlines. In 1979, the city health commissioner wrote a letter to Mr. Koch — who was the mayor at the time — saying that Dr. Baden had “exhibited poor judgment in many instances,” including when he said that it appeared former Governor Nelson Rockefeller “had died during sexual intercourse.” He denied saying the remark.

In 1995, when O.J. Simpson was on trial for the murders of his former wife and her companion, Dr. Baden testified that evidence pointed to Mr. Simpson’s innocence. He said that the timeline of Mr. Simpson’s whereabouts that night would not have given him enough time to commit the murders.

Dr. Baden, who was featured in an HBO documentary series about his work, estimated he has conducted more than 20,000 autopsies.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/nyre ... baden.html
#15046327
Godstud wrote:...hired by Jeffrey Epstein’s brother...

Mafia spokesman says that there is no story here beyond what you've read in mafia news media.

Credible only because it's illegal to not believe it.

Also, notice how Jeffrey Epstein has dissappeared from mainstream media. There's just so many more important things to report on other than Israeli extortion rings controlling American and other foreign government reps.

Why in the world would anyone still be interested in Israeli extortion rings controlling American and other foreign government reps?

For me, Israeli extortion rings controlling American and other foreign government reps, is a non-story. (Plus, Bali is expecting a huge tidal wave and protests!!!)
#15046667
Well, I'm no doctor, but if neck bones are broken, its obvious strong forces have been at work.

The neck is protected by quite extensive amounts of muscles and the neck bones aint fragile, thus I would assume that this requires that the hanging was started with a good amount of falling, otherwise I dont see the quite robust neck bones breaking just yet from the regular weight of a body alone.

Also the article isnt quite clear enough to know, but it sounds to me like the nerves inside the neck bones got crushed, which means the person in question would be paralyzed and without any feeling from the neck below; bound to die from suffocation either way unless receiving immediate medical help, even without the strangulation.

However I cannot see how this indicates homocide. Its obviously perfectly easy to archieve this during suicide as well. Stand on a chair, bind the knot tight, jump off the chair.
#15046669
Negotiator wrote:
Well, I'm no doctor, but if neck bones are broken, its obvious strong forces have been at work.

The neck is protected by quite extensive amounts of muscles and the neck bones aint fragile, thus I would assume that this requires that the hanging was started with a good amount of falling, otherwise I dont see the quite robust neck bones breaking just yet from the regular weight of a body alone.

Also the article isnt quite clear enough to know, but it sounds to me like the nerves inside the neck bones got crushed, which means the person in question would be paralyzed and without any feeling from the neck below; bound to die from suffocation either way unless receiving immediate medical help, even without the strangulation.

However I cannot see how this indicates homocide. Its obviously perfectly easy to archieve this during suicide as well. Stand on a chair, bind the knot tight, jump off the chair.



You don't understand!

Everything is a conspiracy, there are ghosts under the bed, and the tooth fairy is working for the Illuminati!!!
#15047141
QatzelOk wrote:Also, notice how Jeffrey Epstein has dissappeared from mainstream media. There's just so many more important things to report on other than Israeli extortion rings controlling American and other foreign government reps.

Why in the world would anyone still be interested in Israeli extortion rings controlling American and other foreign government reps?

For me, Israeli extortion rings controlling American and other foreign government reps, is a non-story. (Plus, Bali is expecting a huge tidal wave and protests!!!)

The sarcasm is warranted. The recent Project Veritas revelation that Amy Robach had the story and ABC buried it now has another interesting twist: ABC News anchor, George Stephanopoulos (Bill Clinton's communications director) also attended a Jeffery Epstein party AFTER he had been convicted of soliciting under age prostitutes. Clearly ABC News had another angle--trying to help Hillary Clinton during the 2016 election.

Katie Pavlich Ties ABC’s Epstein Cover-up To Clintons, Stephanopoulos<<--Short but good read.

On a funnier note:


At any rate, I think it's pretty obvious that Epstein was murdered. "Dead men tell no tales" as the saying goes. The improbable series of events--getting taken off of suicide watch, cameras suddenly malfunction at the same time prison guards simply fall asleep--is just too pat. Highly improbable events generally don't happen in a perfect sequence like that.

I've said for years now that media outlets are essentially political spy rings. It's so obvious now that most of the country doesn't trust the media at all anymore.

I pretty well figured Clinton was guilty--Clinton and sex go together like peanut butter and jelly. However, to find people like George Mitchell involved suggests that Epstein must have had serious dirt on a whole lot of establishment players that they felt it necessary to kill him in plain daylight. It's kind of like the Lee Harvey Oswald assassination--it's an obvious coverup.

Negotiator wrote:Well, I'm no doctor, but if neck bones are broken, its obvious strong forces have been at work.

The neck is protected by quite extensive amounts of muscles and the neck bones aint fragile, thus I would assume that this requires that the hanging was started with a good amount of falling, otherwise I dont see the quite robust neck bones breaking just yet from the regular weight of a body alone.

It's the fact that the hyoid was broken in three places that suggests a struggle.

Negotiator wrote:Stand on a chair, bind the knot tight, jump off the chair.

With paper sheets? In a prison with no movable chair?

late wrote:the tooth fairy is working for the Illuminati!!!

The tooth fairy is KGB. Everyone knows that.
#15047173
blackjack21 wrote:

The tooth fairy is KGB. Everyone knows that.



You use speculation and fact like they were interchangeable.

They are not.

(The FSB (which replaced the KGB a long time ago) works for the Illuminati, everyone knows that!)
#15047210
blackjack21 wrote:At any rate, I think it's pretty obvious that Epstein was murdered. [...] The improbable series of events--getting taken off of suicide watch, cameras suddenly malfunction at the same time prison guards simply fall asleep--is just too pat.

[...]

It's the fact that the hyoid was broken in three places that suggests a struggle.

Why yes, we know for sure this was murder. Would be great to have additional evidence though.

You're right, I didnt paid enough attention. This was indeed about the hyoid, not the spine, as I had thought.
#15047890
blackjack21 wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that Epstein was murdered. "Dead men tell no tales" as the saying goes. The improbable series of events--getting taken off of suicide watch, cameras suddenly malfunction at the same time prison guards simply fall asleep--is just too pat. Highly improbable events generally don't happen in a perfect sequence like that.

Why would anyone need to murder him?

If the people he works for can shut down the prison system, they can also make sure that he gets safely whisked away and thanked ($$$) for his years of loyal service to the mafia.

You and Doctor Negotiator try to analyse Jeffrey's "broken neck bones" even though you've never witnessed them yourselves. You have simply read "broken neck bones" from mass media sources. In other words, the mafia have told you what happened to a fellow mafia member - and you.... believe them.
#15047907
QatzelOk wrote:Why would anyone need to murder him?

If the people he works for can shut down the prison system, they can also make sure that he gets safely whisked away and thanked ($$$) for his years of loyal service to the mafia.

That's assuming that the people he worked for killed him. The better of the theories is that he was running a honeytrap and blackmail ring for Mossad. So it's likely he wasn't working FOR the US deep state, but had them compromised.

Personally, I think Trump's crew dug up this story, because the Clintons were tied in with Epstein. So the DoJ investigated, charged, and then he suddenly died when even names beyond Clinton surfaced. The one that surprised me the most was George Mitchell. Everyone knows Clinton was a pervert, and more than likely a rapist. That's not really a surprise. However, to learn that Epstein had ties to so many figures, even people like Bill Gates... that's the mafia that wanted him dead. Mossad was beyond their ability to save him.

QatzelOk wrote:You and Doctor Negotiator try to analyse Jeffrey's "broken neck bones" even though you've never witnessed them yourselves. You have simply read "broken neck bones" from mass media sources. In other words, the mafia have told you what happened to a fellow mafia member - and you.... believe them.

And they told you he committed suicide. Do you believe them? I find the neck bones story interesting, but I was among those who thought he'd never live to see trial in the first place. So I was not at all surprised he "died" in custody awaiting trial.
#15048092
blackjack21 wrote:That's assuming that the people he worked for killed him. The better of the theories is that he was running a honeytrap and blackmail ring for Mossad. So it's likely he wasn't working FOR the US deep state, but had them compromised.

black21, you seem to be having a hard time connecting dots.

If the Mossad is blackmailing US presidents with sex extortion to force their own policies onto the US governance, that means that Mossad IS PART OF the USA deep state.

This means that under all the layers of seeming legitimacy, the USA is just a mafia operation with a huuuuuuge body count.
Last edited by QatzelOk on 13 Nov 2019 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
#15048225
QatzelOk wrote:black21, you seem to be having a hard time connecting dots.

If the Mossad is blackmailing US presidents with sex extortion to force their own policies onto the US governance, that means that Mossad IS PART OF the USA deep state.

This means that under all the layers of seeming legitimacy, the USA is just a mafia operation with a huuuuuuge body count.


Err ... thats not what I consider "deep state".

Deep state is the buerocracy that remains while governments are changing. For example the FBI and the CIA.

In some instances, such as with Trump, the deep state objects especially wildly and then part of it might do illegal things and/or not follow commands by the current government. Thats when the deep state turns into a real problem and an anti-democratic force.

What you describe is something completely different. Its a foreign secret service. Thats not the "deep state". Its not even part of the country at all.
#15048230
Negotiator wrote:Err ... thats not what I consider "deep state".

Deep state is the buerocracy that remains while governments are changing. For example the FBI and the CIA.

In some instances, such as with Trump, the deep state objects especially wildly and then part of it might do illegal things and/or not follow commands by the current government. Thats when the deep state turns into a real problem and an anti-democratic force.

What you describe is something completely different. Its a foreign secret service. Thats not the "deep state". Its not even part of the country at all.


I think what he suggested was that Israel is effectively the suzerain of the United States.
#15048266
Patrickov wrote:...Israel is effectively the suzerain of the United States.

Not necessarily "Israel."

But the same organized crime gangs that created Israel are the USA's current suzerain, the USA being a mercenary nation that works for whatever suzerain offers the biggest bribes or the biggest propaganda network.

The bribes are obviously very important. But also the propaganda network, which can be used to both buy support for foreign atrocities, and also to socially destroy those who get in the way of the organized crime gang.
#15048606
blackjack21 wrote:
Katie Pavlich Ties ABC’s Epstein Cover-up To Clintons, Stephanopoulos<<--Short but good read.

On a funnier note:



It seems like the Project Veritas ABC leak #Metoo may have only pre-dated the #Metoo astroturf "movement" by a few months, if even that.

The #MeToo movement has never spoken out much or been linked to Jeffrey Epstein in any major context.

#15048628
maz wrote:It seems like the Project Veritas ABC leak #Metoo may have only pre-dated the #Metoo astroturf "movement" by a few months, if even that.

The #MeToo movement has never spoken out much or been linked to Jeffrey Epstein in any major context.

Well that's what's so interesting about the story. ABC has gone to great lengths to cover up quashing their own Epstein story, while at the same time happily running with whatever salacious sex story they can run against anyone else.

I think Epstein had deep tentacles into the media as well.

I'm still inclined to think it's the cabal behind the Clintons that killed him.
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