Until we get a Carbon Tax, we haven't even started - Page 16 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Pollution, global warming, urbanisation etc.
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#15049857
Truth To Power wrote:
Real research doesn't point at a desired conclusion.



Then chose different words that say the same damn thing.

Scientists found anthropogenic warming in the 1970s, and the same is true today.
#15050073
late wrote:Then chose different words that say the same damn thing.

I only tell the truth.
Scientists found anthropogenic warming in the 1970s, and the same is true today.

Nope. Flat wrong. I am old enough to remember the 1970s, and scientists in the 1970s found unanimously that the earth had been cooling since the 1940s. That unanimous finding has since been retroactively altered to agree with anti-fossil-fuel hate propaganda.
#15050074
So, all the climatologists in the world got together and agreed to not only hide this data from the rest of the world, but also managed to convince every climatologist that got into the field after that to go along with this massive conspiracy.

And they did so for no discernible reason.

And no one ever mentioned this secret despite the fact that there was no reason to keep it secret.


Riiiiiiiiiiight.
#15050092
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, all the climatologists in the world got together and agreed to not only hide this data from the rest of the world,

No one asked them to agree. The journals just stopped publishing the facts.
but also managed to convince every climatologist that got into the field after that to go along with this massive conspiracy.

Strawman. Climatology is a niche field that is easily controlled with a modest amount of money.
And they did so for no discernible reason.

The reason is debatable, but there are certainly some plausible candidates.
And no one ever mentioned this secret despite the fact that there was no reason to keep it secret.

It has been mentioned many times. For example, Prof William Gray, the world's foremost expert on hurricane forecasting, mentioned it to VP Al Gore, and despite having received federal research funds every year for decades, never got another cent of federal money.
#15050098
Truth To Power wrote:Nope. Flat wrong. I am old enough to remember the 1970s, and scientists in the 1970s found unanimously that the earth had been cooling since the 1940s. That unanimous finding has since been retroactively altered to agree with anti-fossil-fuel hate propaganda.


Look up Charnley report.

1970s report by the top climate scientists of the time identifying the affects of carbon dioxide on the climate.

Perhaps your knowledge of research by climate scientists in the 1970s isn't as complete as you think.

You could also look at the work of Lovelock and Margulis led by the inventions of Lovelock for measuring atmospheric gases.
#15050119
Truth To Power wrote:No one asked them to agree. The journals just stopped publishing the facts.


I see. All the editors of all the journals are part of the conspiracy and have somehow tricked all the climatologists or something vague that involves climatologists not being able to verify their own experiments.

Strawman. Climatology is a niche field that is easily controlled with a modest amount of money.


Then it should be easy for you to show exactly who is controlling everyone and how they are using this modest amount of money to do it.

Please show us now.

The reason is debatable, but there are certainly some plausible candidates.


But you are not going to mention them because you deliberately make vague arguments when it comes to your conspiracy theories?

It has been mentioned many times. For example, Prof William Gray, the world's foremost expert on hurricane forecasting, mentioned it to VP Al Gore, and despite having received federal research funds every year for decades, never got another cent of federal money.


Provide evidence for this claim.
#15050122
Truth To Power wrote:, Prof William Gray, the world's foremost expert on hurricane forecasting, mentioned it to VP Al Gore, and despite having received federal research funds every year for decades, never got another cent of federal money.


Maybe the £67m from Exxon and the Koch brothers via the heartland institute helped cushion the blow.

Number of peer reviewed research papers from William Gray on GHG climate change = Zero. The same number as Al Gore.

He claimed he knew better but never put forward a paper to put it to the test, it's a common trait of these old men who are now dying out and being replaced by scientists with a better grasp of the latest technology.

I actually feel sorry for him, a bitter and old man who couldn't adapt to new techniques and so lashed out.
#15050124
Truth To Power wrote:
I only tell the truth.

Nope. Flat wrong. I am old enough to remember the 1970s, and scientists in the 1970s found unanimously that the earth had been cooling since the 1940s. That unanimous finding has since been retroactively altered to agree with anti-fossil-fuel hate propaganda.





Both programs that found warming were secret, at that time.

AND... there was only one scientific paper that found cooling. The two scientists that authored it had to retract the paper. They screwed up badly. You aren't talking about science, the media loved it and ran with it, and got a lot of mileage out of it.

I loved the retroactive bit. Where did you find that piece of idiocy. Or did you make it up?
#15050317
late wrote:Both programs that found warming were secret, at that time.

And were wrong.
AND... there was only one scientific paper that found cooling.

That's just baldly false:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/11/19/ ... ot-a-myth/

In particular, see the spreadsheet of references -- 190 of them -- at the end.
The two scientists that authored it had to retract the paper.

Please provide evidence for this claim.
They screwed up badly. You aren't talking about science, the media loved it and ran with it, and got a lot of mileage out of it.

False. You have been deceived by liars. You are probably relying on Peterson, Connolley and Fleck's 2008 paper, "The Myth of the 1970s Global Cooling Scientific Consensus." But the authors of that paper simply lied.

First, they lied about what the scientific consensus on global cooling was. They claimed the skeptical community was claiming that the consensus was that the earth was entering a new ice age, and proceeded to show that there was no such consensus. But that was not the consensus the skeptics had claimed. It was just a strawman fallacy. The ACTUAL claimed consensus was only that the earth HAD cooled between the 1940s and the 1970s, not that it was GOING to get even colder. There is obviously a huge difference between a consensus about OBSERVED temperatures and a consensus about PREDICTED ones. GET IT???

Then they lied about what the scientific literature actually said. They lied that the majority of papers claimed warming, when more papers actually stated that the earth had cooled in the 1940-1970 period than said that it had warmed. This sort of consistent, blatant lying is very common among the anti-fossil-fuel hysteria crowd.
I loved the retroactive bit. Where did you find that piece of idiocy. Or did you make it up?

It is fact. See the blatant revisionism of the PCF 2008 paper. NASA and NOAA -- who have custody of the global temperature data all climate scientists use -- have been reducing historically recorded temperatures from earlier years and increasing readings from recent years. They just change the numbers to agree with anti-fossil-fuel hysteria propaganda.
#15050318
Truth To Power wrote:It is fact. See the blatant revisionism of the PCF 2008 paper. NASA and NOAA -- who have custody of the global temperature data all climate scientists use -- have been reducing historically recorded temperatures from earlier years and increasing readings from recent years. They just change the numbers to agree with anti-fossil-fuel hysteria propaganda.


I see you ignored how I pointed out how your conspiracy theory was wrong.

Moving on....

Provide evidence that NASA and NOAA have deliberately lied.

Now.
#15050319
BeesKnee5 wrote:Maybe the £67m from Exxon and the Koch brothers via the heartland institute helped cushion the blow.

Please provide evidence that this money went to Prof Gray.
Number of peer reviewed research papers from William Gray on GHG climate change = Zero.

Right. Same as the number on leprechaun climate change, and for the same reason: it is absurd nonsense beneath the notice of genuine climate scientists.
He claimed he knew better but never put forward a paper to put it to the test,

Because the question had already been settled by Angstrom, 100 before.
it's a common trait of these old men who are now dying out and being replaced by scientists with a better grasp of the latest technology.

But little understanding of the underlying physics.
I actually feel sorry for him, a bitter and old man who couldn't adapt to new techniques and so lashed out.

That is a despicable slander of a man whose shoes you are not fit to clean.
#15050322
Truth To Power wrote:I refuted your claim, and provided the source.


No.

Go back and look at my posts and you will see that I explained how your conspiracy theory does not make sense, and also note that you did not refute it at all.

:lol: :lol: :lol: That would require knowledge of their mental state, child.


Sp you deliberately made an unverifiable claim that you knew you could not support.

I will now dismiss your claim (that NASA and NOAA deliberately fudged the data) as unsupported insults.
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