[Beren]

Corbyn apologises to PLP for Labour's defeat

These are from my colleague Kate Proctor.

So he finally apologised, he must have believed he still could remain leader somehow if McDonnell takes full responsibility for the disaster. Now that he obviously couldn't, we have this:

Rebecca Long-Bailey (L) and Angela Rayner. Photograph: Yui Mok/PA

The shadow education secretary, Angela Rayner, has cleared the way for her friend Rebecca Long-Bailey to run as the leftwing successor to Jeremy Corbyn, deciding instead to focus on becoming deputy leader.

Really?

[skinster]

So he finally apologised

I'd say the apology is more about the second tweet.

Really?

The membership decides the leader and I think they'll more likely pic a leftwing option, despite stuff like this.

[Beren]

The membership decides the leader and I think they'll more likely pic a leftwing option

Do Corbynites actually care about anything else than keeping themselves with their own delusions in position?

[skinster]

The vast majority of Labour's membership is leftwing and have pro leftwing ideas and get to decide on who the leader is, so...what are you babbling?

[Beren]

The vast majority of Labour's membership is leftwing and have pro leftwing ideas and get to decide on who the leader is, so...what are you babbling?

Will they elect any ridiculous Corbynite candidate with no chance of ever becoming PM party leader?

[skinster]

Corbyn just had a chance of winning (for the third time) but there was much power and deception that prevented that from happening, including from within his party.

Anyway, you seem unfamiliar with how the majority of Labour's membership are leftwing. And who vote for the leader.

[Patrickov]

Will they elect any ridiculous Corbynite candidate with no chance of ever becoming PM party leader?

To be fair, if Corbynites are so unpopular after a few elections either they will be swept out, or the ones who cannot sweep them out will form a new party which might win elections themselves.

After all, Labour itself has been around for just 100 years -- back then who would know that the Liberals would be displaced?

[Beren]

Anyway, you seem unfamiliar with how the majority of Labour's membership are leftwing. And who vote for the leader.

I could indeed be unaware of the proportions of the majority's awesome left-wingness. Maybe you could help me out by answering my question then as to whether they'd elect any ridiculous Corbynite candidate with no chance of ever becoming PM party leader, so they could have their great leftist party for themselves as long as it's able to function and run in elections to serve the Tories as an opponent having absolutely no chance to win.

[AFAIK]

Corbyn's policies are very popular but he isn't due to all the baggage he has acquired after decades in politics. We just need a young fresh face to lead the party with the same values as Corbyn.

[quetzalcoatl]

Do Corbynites actually care about anything else than keeping themselves with their own delusions in position?

They actually do care. The question, more properly, is do the voters care?

[Beren]

Corbyn's policies are very popular but he isn't due to all the baggage he has acquired after decades in politics. We just need a young fresh face to lead the party with the same values as Corbyn.

So the idea is that any Corbynite with the right age and probably gender will do.

[skinster]

I could indeed be unaware of the proportions of the majority's awesome left-wingness.

And that you are.

Maybe you could help me out by answering my question then as to whether they'd elect any ridiculous Corbynite candidate with no chance of ever becoming PM party leader, so they could have their great leftist party for themselves as long as it's able to function and run in elections to serve the Tories as an opponent having absolutely no chance to win.

The leftwing of Labour's membership (the majority) plan to vote for as close to a socialist as there is, because the leftwing of Labour are...leftwing.

This is in part why the right of the party, including criminals like Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell, are crying a lot right now, trying to blame Labour's loss on Corbyn and/or his policies rather than their pushing of a second referendum position on Brexit, which is what lost Labour millions of votes this year (compared to 2017's election).

Also, you need to stop sounding like a hysterical adult-baby because it's not a good look.

[Beren]

Also, you need to stop sounding like a hysterical adult-baby because it's not a good look.

With all due respect I'm just daring ask Corbynites to be serious, self-critical, responsible and try to put the party before themselves this dark time. I hope I don't expect the impossible, although I know it must be hard for them. I'm also sorry for being so much frustrated and worried about the Labour party after last week's historic disaster they suffered under Corbyn's brilliant leadership that should be continued somehow at all costs.

pushing of a second referendum position on Brexit, which is what lost Labour millions of votes this year (compared to 2017's election).

Labour lost millions of votes to the Lib Dems, the SNP and the Greens, while they lost some hundreds of thousands to the Conservatives, so Remainers rather than Leavers deserted them.

[skinster]

With all due respect I'm just daring ask Corbynites to be serious, self-critical, responsible and try to put the party before themselves this dark time.

Less of the melodrama, Tony Blair.

What is there to be self-critical about? Labour's position on Brexit is what lost them the election. That, and attacks from all over the establishment, it's media, intel, military, the empire and its powerful vassal states that Corbyn spoke of not selling weapons to, etc.

How is voting for a non-leftwing leader putting the party before the majority leftwing membership?

I'm also sorry for being so much frustrated and worried about the Labour party after last week's historic disaster they suffered under Corbyn's brilliant leadership that must be continued at all costs.

Corbyn won more than Blair, Brown and Miliband did in previous elections.

Labour lost because of adopting a second ref on Brexit position, something pushed onto him by the Blairites, including Blair and Alistair Campbell, who now are crying crocodile tears when they should be sat in pain somewhere in a torture prison that nobody knows the location of.

As for brilliant leadership, imagine how much more brilliant it could've been if he wasn't attacked by pretty much everyone that wasn't a socialist. And if Labour did so badly, it's a wonder why so many are going hard for Corbyn's job right now...

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Do Corbynites actually care about anything else than keeping themselves with their own delusions in position?

They view this as a fight over the soul of the Labour party, so no.

[skinster]

Of keeping it leftwing, yup.

And that's where it'll be.

And that left will build as Tories and capitalism in general continue to kill, starve, destroy and disappoint, imho.

[Beren]

What is there to be self-critical about?

Clearly nothing, the only problem was that Corbynites just couldn't be themselves enough, so everyone and everything should be blamed except them.

Labour's position on Brexit is what lost them the election.

There's something we agree on at least, although we don't mean the same for sure.

That, and attacks from all over the establishment, it's media, intel, military, the empire and its powerful vassal states that Corbyn spoke of not selling weapons to, etc.

I actually wonder if how this is supposed to be an argument. You're actually arguing that it's almost impossible for Labour to win a general election with Corbynite leadership. How is it a good idea to keep them in position then and how is it supposed to prove that they shouldn't change course somehow?

How is voting for a non-leftwing leader putting the party before the majority leftwing leadership?

I'm just asking for a leader that could be a winner. How come it's so hard for Corbynites to find and present one?

Corbyn won more than Blair, Brown and Miliband did in previous elections.

Blair must be a real genius then because he could win three elections with less voters. In 1997 Labour got 13,518,167 votes, which was more than what they got in 2017. In 2001 they got 10,724,953 votes, which was more than what they got last week, so both Blair's first and second best were better than that of Corbyn's.

They view this as a fight over the soul of the Labour party, so no.

They rather seem to view it as a ruthless power struggle they must win at all cost.

[skinster]

Clearly nothing

So then stop whining. But if you do think up anything, do share, because so far you're saying a whole crybabyload of nothing.

There's something we agree on at least.

Uh-huh.

I actually wonder if how this is supposed to be an argument.

#metoo @ your posts.

You're actually arguing that it's almost impossible for Labour to win a general election with Corbynite leadership.

Nope, I'm explaining why Labour lost. Let's start again: 1. Brexit. 2. Attacks from all over the establishment, MSM and interfering governments who love wars and zionism.

How is it a good idea to keep them in position then and how is it supposed to prove that they shouldn't change course somehow?

Change course to where, centrism? You're asking a majority leftwing membership to vote for neoliberal dogshit in 2020? How is that a good idea? You're not thinking proper.

I'm just asking for a leader that could be a winner. How come it's so hard for Corbynites to find and present one?

Who said it's hard? Left Labour peeps are being considered already, while the likes of Jess Philips and Emily Thornberry as potential leaders are mainly amusing or mocked, amongst the membership.

Blair must be a real genius

You always suck up to genocidal monsters.

They (Blairites) rather seem to view it as a ruthless power struggle they must win at all cost.

FIFY.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

They rather seem to view it as a ruthless power struggle they must win at all cost.

Certainly, but that's because the Labour party is the left's vehicle to get into power and the hard left feels that it has been stolen from them by the Blairites. They want it back, so that they can bring fully automated luxury communism to Britain.

Of keeping it leftwing, yup.

And that's where it'll be.

Other lefties would say that you prefer to lose to maintain ideological purity rather than actually help the people you ostensibly care about.

And that left will build as Tories and capitalism in general continues to kill, starve, destroy and disappoint, imho.

Sure thing. That's what the hard left has always believed and it's also what has led to its worst defeats.

[skinster]

You guys with your "Corbynite" this and "hard left" that. Can we just go with 'left/leftwing' or 'socialism', ffs?

Other lefties would say that you prefer to lose to maintain ideological purity rather than actually help the people you ostensibly care about.

What?

Sure thing. That's what the hard left has always believed and it's also what has led to its worst defeats.

Like in 2017, before the Blairites forced the 2nd ref on Brexit?

Did you see how red the young vote was?

Have you noticed the world burning out there for most working class people in the richest countries in the world where socialism is no longer a dirty word?