Turkey & Libya agree to split Greek territory, Libya invites Turkey to send military - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15059169
QatzelOk wrote:Agreed. And not only that, but as a Western NATO lapdog, Greece has sit by and watch its Northern White Supremacist neighbors destroy and invade its Eastern and Southern neighbors for a long time.

Now, it has terrible relations with most of them, except Israel and a few kingdoms. Maybe Turkey-Libya will do a better job of protecting all those many cultures that haven't been bombed and sanctioned to death yet - by Greece's bestest buddies.


You are acting as if Greece & Cyprus escaped regime-change, invasion, vilification & economic terrorism. :eh:

Or as if Greece did not stand by Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Kurdistan & Palestine :roll:

You have confused Greece for Turkey here. It is Turkey that has invaded Syria against both Assad and the Kurds, has now sent army in Libya in support of the GNA(the western backed government of Libya) and was all-in against Yugoslavia as well pro-actively bombing it while Greece had banned Turkish aircraft from crossing its airspace in an attempt to prevent Turkey from bombing Yugoslavia. Greece stood by Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria & the Kurdish leader(Ocalan) till the very end while Turkey actively participated/s in the destruction of all these countries. Greece/Greeks is the only western country/people not hated by the Arabs.
#15059218
noemon wrote:You are acting as if Greece & Cyprus escaped regime-change, invasion, vilification & economic terrorism. :eh:

Or as if Greece did not stand by Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Kurdistan & Palestine :roll:

You have confused Greece for Turkey here. It is Turkey that has invaded Syria against both Assad and the Kurds, has now sent army in Libya in support of the GNA(the western backed government of Libya) and was all-in against Yugoslavia as well pro-actively bombing it while Greece had banned Turkish aircraft from crossing its airspace in an attempt to prevent Turkey from bombing Yugoslavia. Greece stood by Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria & the Kurdish leader(Ocalan) till the very end while Turkey actively participated/s in the destruction of all these countries. Greece/Greeks is the only western country/people not hated by the Arabs.

Both Greece and Turkey found it easier to chose Western money over any kind of international solidarity with weaker neighbors. Both countries wash toilets for rich tourists, and let fat white countries use their airports to bomb the defenceless countries east and south.

At one point does this mean that Greece and Turkey are just the whores of other countries with nothing to offer their neighbors except collusion with Occidental Bankster military violence?
#15059236
QatzelOk wrote:Both Greece and Turkey found it easier to chose Western money over any kind of international solidarity with weaker neighbors. Both countries wash toilets for rich tourists, and let fat white countries use their airports to bomb the defenceless countries east and south.

At one point does this mean that Greece and Turkey are just the whores of other countries with nothing to offer their neighbors except collusion with Occidental Bankster military violence?


White western Canadian gay man vilifies brown Mediterranean people as "good-for-nothing-toilet-cleaners" while accusing them for Occidentalism. :lol: Irony is certainly not lost in you QatzelOk.

First of all, both countries are exceptionally independent and loud all things considered.

Second, Greece has traditionally been far more independent than Turkey who has been a western puppet as long as she can remember and has been rewarded for that with half of Cyprus, an active declaration of war against Greece and total tacit support from the west. Greece on the other hand in the past 40 years has founded the Initiative of the Six, with Mexico's president Miguel de la Madrid, Argentina's president Raúl Alfonsín, Sweden's murdered prime minister Olof Palme, Tanzania's president Julius Nyerere and India's prime minister Indira Gandhi. Has openly supported Qaddafi(Libya) during the bombing of Libya in NATO and still supports General Haftar who is fighting against the GNA, openly supported Yasser Arafat(Palestine) with words & deeds, openly supported Milosevic(Yugoslavia) going as far as sending military support!!! while the country was being bombed by NATO where Greece is a member of. Greece's democratic government was regime-changed in 1967 with a CIA agent as the dictator and threw its shackles off in 1974, Cyprus was invaded and cut in half as a direct result of this regime-change, yet nothing stopped Greece from pursuing a fiercely independent foreign policy, Greece is being vilified consistently for the past decade and has been subject to severe financial and media terrorism but still, Greece openly supported the Chavistas blocking EU sanctions against them and also blocked EU sanctions against Iran with whom she continues to trade openly in defiance of the entire western apparatus and while at the same time engaging in a very close friendship with Israel! I understand your sour grapes though considering your knee-jerk hatred for anyone who stands with Israel. You saw Ter's post with Greece, Israel and Cyprus embracing each other against Turkish aggression and you chose your side instantly operating exactly like all those Black or White lens cleaners your faux post-modernism has always attempted to mock. Is that you coming full circle, Qatz? How can Greece stand with Israel and still trade with Iran you ask yourself...that is because respect is earned and not granted. If Israel & Iran want to be our friend and enjoy the strategic benefits that we have to offer then they have to accept the realities of our character and needs and the same goes for everybody else too.

We are the "toilet-cleaners", "the PIIGS" who carry 1/4 of the world's trade in our ships and still stand our ground for what we consider fair and just. What is your excuse? And can you show me any country in the world that is proactively and openly trying as hard as Greece to be nobody's bitch?

In WW1 we stayed neutral until Germany & Bulgaria invaded us despite our neutrality, we entered the war and a month later we turned the tide for the Entente. In WW2 we stayed neutral again until Italy invaded us once again despite our neutrality, we beat them back and took Albania away from them. Germany sent her elite paratroopers to rescue her Italian ally and we buried them all in Crete. Hitler took his hat off and permitted the defeated Greek officers keep their weapons. Germany delayed so much in Greece that according to everyone that was the reason she lost the war. Can you tell me QatzelOk, what are the principles that we lack compared to you or Canada or some other country, any other country for the matter? What do you stand for? Postmodern antisemitism? We export shipping & culture. All our neighbours speak a language different to ours yet they all sing our songs and know the words, including the Turks, & the Israelis & the Iranians & the Yugoslavs. What do you stand for? Our double-headed eagle has been copied by almost every single country in the world and looks at both East & West. We are the fault-line that separates west & east, anything to our west is western and everything to our east is eastern, yet we are neither but both.
#15059417
noemon wrote:Greece has traditionally been far more independent than Turkey

Yes, but more importantly, Greece and Turkey have been played against one another to keep each other in check.

Age-old grudges are the easiest thing for the Hegemonic powers to exploit.

But both countres are in NATO - tomayto/tomahto. We're a gang that often destroys Greece's and Turkey's neighborhoods with your cooperation.

Do you see how this network of moneyed alliances might be fatal to both countries in the medium term?
#15059418
Turkey unashamedly claiming Greek territory and issuing a cassus belli(declaration of war) by her parliament is her own actions. Several Greek PM's have offered olive branches to her very openly but she has never accepted them, she figures cause she's big she can get her own way and bully smaller countries. She is no different than any other bully out there and now with a dictator at her helm having secured total political control over the entire country, he is just getting more belligerent.
#15059432
Source wrote:BERLIN (AP) — GERMAN Chancellor Angela Merkel is inviting world powers to a summit in Berlin on Sunday to discuss efforts to broker peace in Libya.

Merkel's office said in a statement Tuesday that the German leader had decided to host the meeting after consulting with U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres.

Germany has invited Fayez al-Sarraj, who heads the U.N.-supported administration in Tripoli, and Gen. Khalifa Hifter of the rival Libyan National Army to the Jan. 19 meeting.

Officials from the United States, Russia, Britain, France, China, United Arab Emirates, Turkey as well as several African and Arab countries are also invited.


Berlin makes peace conference on Libya this weekend, forgets to invite Greece and Cyprus who are the most directly affected countries. Italy suggests Turkey becomes guarantor power of Libya and also refuses to sign, Greek-French-Egyptian joint statements denouncing the Turkish-Libya agreement that steals Greek national territory.

As I said before in this thread, I am more worried about the Germans, the EU and the US than I am actually worried about Turkey itself.

noemon on the 20th of December 2019 wrote:Turkey is aware of all these details and will not risk to get humiliated by Greece & Serbia or Bulgaria for example. What worries me however is Europe & the US of course. You may not realise this but Germany, the UK, the US and others have traditionally been on the side of Turkey against Greece in the most recent history say from the 60's onwards. How do you think the Cyprus debacle took place in 1974?* The emboldening of Erdogan is not something that fell from the sky, he has been given this rope by these countries in ways that are far more direct than you imagine. I am telling you this and keep it well in your mind, these countries are not simple tacit supporters of Erdogan because of immigrants or because they have no other options, they are pro-active allies of Turkey that feed his hand and this is a very dangerous game being played here because Erdogan does not need war to achieve his aims, he just needs the tacit support of these 3 countries playing along bad cop good cop with him to sap away Greek national rights in the Aegean. Consider this, where are the news about these developments? Why is the western press not talking about this matter? This "deal" took place about a week ago and the official request for troops from Libya came 3 days ago. Have you seen anything anywhere? Greek borders are also EU borders, they are also NATO borders, where is the outrage for these truly outrageous acts on the part of Turkey and Libya?
#15059433
noemon wrote:Berlin makes peace conference on Libya this weekend, forgets to invite Greece and Cyprus who are the most directly affected countries. Italy suggests Turkey becomes guarantor power of Libya!!!

This is unacceptable.
It is time for Greece and Cyprus to start using, or at least threatening to use, their veto powers in the EU.
I don't know if there is a veto power in NATO.
#15059434
Liberal Greeks are calling for Grexit from the EU all over social media. The move is intended to both insult & isolate Greece and of course to legitimise these preposterous claims.

Germany invited the Kongo to the conference, but not Greece, Cyprus or Tunisia!!!
#15059448
Istanbuller wrote:Very stupid move by Haftar.

It will cause Turkish army to be rooted deeper in Libya. Let's see what is waiting ahead.


:lol:

Why would Haftar sign a ceasefire that would only allow his enemies to rearm and regroup and prepare more for his final attacks, when he's got the momentum and is winning?

Oh, you want time for Turkey to save their Libyan puppets, got it ;)
#15059578
Greece makes official request to join Libya Conference in Germany but Germany outright refuses to let Greece join even as an observer. She has extended an invitation to Turkey even though General Haftar has made it clear that he will not enter any room with a Turkish representative in it.

Deputy Government Spokesman Ulrike Demer says the details about the choice of countries participating in the conference cannot be made public.

She goes on to say that the Libya-Turkish maritime deal stealing Greek national territory is not in the agenda of the summit and she has no opinion on it as she is not familiar with it.

@Atlantis wtf yo?

Not wanting Greece in the summit even as an observer is an indication that Germany has decided to sacrifice Greece and she does not even want her to be present to witness it. Wow!

Atlantis please give us one good reason as to why the Greeks should not give you the middle finger for real this time and join your enemies.
#15059619
@noemon, why do you think that Greece is not welcome at the conference?

Anyways, this isn't about more money for Greece. And if you can't even handle the refugees from Turkey, how are you going to handle those from Libya?

This isn't about gas exploitation in the Mediterranean either. The gas should stay where it is and you should build renewable energy instead.

You can't "join our enemies" either because you have always been the first to suck up to the imperial powers: Ottomans, Russians, Brits, Yanks, no matter who, as long as they are imperialist pigs.

But don't you worry, you won't miss anything in Berlin. The fighting parties aren't ready for mediation and the wannabe imperial powers are hell bent on fueling the proxy war to the last drop of oil.
#15059624
Germany insults Greek nation, German nationalist doubles down on the insult instead of manning up. How predictable and that is why you never amounted to anything more than shameless murder and genocide. Germany, a traditional Ottoman ally in all the wars, the same country who convinced everybody to destroy Yugoslavia and illegally armed the Muslims and the Croats to kill their brothers is now once again bowing before Sultan Erdogan prepping to offer Greece up as a sacrificial lamb.

Atlantis wrote:@noemon, why do you think that Greece is not welcome at the conference?


I already said why.

noemon wrote:Not wanting Greece in the summit even as an observer is an indication that Germany has decided to sacrifice Greece and she does not even want her to be present to witness it. Wow!


Could you tell us why, without insulting us, if at all possible in your culture & upbringing?

Atlantis wrote:But don't you worry, you won't miss anything in Berlin. The fighting parties aren't ready for mediation and the wannabe imperial powers are hell bent on fueling the proxy war to the last drop of oil.


Means the insult is even worse and it's irrelevant. Why are you actively trying to insult Greece and her Conservative government? Aside from being in cahoots with Erdogan are you also in cahoots with Tsipras?
#15059690
Greece deploys air-defense system in Saudi after Armenia, Bulgaria, North Macedonia, Albania & Montenegro. Israeli counter-intelligence unit of the armed forces(Mossad?) lists Turkey as a national threat for the first time ever.

It is quite evident that people are preparing for the worse. Erdogan having secured Syria wants to expand to the rest of the Med and it is also quite evident that he enjoys full support from Germany which is not news to anyone proficient with basic history.

Greek PM says he will veto any agreement if Turkey-Libya maritime deal is not scrapped.
#15059696
Maybe that's why you weren't invited because you would veto any deal. We are talking about peace in Libya not about your cantankerous character issues. That's part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Anyways, Haftar has enough allies to press his case, what does he need a little country without any leverage whatsoever? You are just an irritant, nothing more.
#15059723
Atlantis wrote:Maybe that's why you weren't invited because you would veto any deal


Why would we not veto a deal that removes national territory away from us? :knife: Why would Germany even discuss a deal that would remove EU territory away from itself? Are you openly suggesting that Greece should accept the Turkey-Libya agreement stealing Greek national territory? Second, Greece asked to be an Observer country without a say in the Conference. Why is Germany, a fellow EU member, supposed partner, insulting Greece in this manner and why are you and Germany willing to sacrifice Greek territory to appease Erdogan?

Greece has a clear stake in this and of course has some leverage and that is why General Haftar is going to Berlin from Athens, I asked you to give me a reason why Germany is doing this without insulting Greece, clearly that is an impossible task for you. You are the irritant and as always you are the permanent losers. The Libyan National Army has trashed the quislings sitting on Libya's government and her Turkish props and without a ceasefire it will roll over the entire country, that is why Erdogan is scrambling to salvage the impossible. Of course, Germany is not interested in peace and that is why it is ignoring what the Libyan National Army wants which is Greece to be present in the Conference. This entire conference is a side-show to prop Erdogan and Merkel by dog-whistling to their internal Turkish-German audience. Of course the military equipment Germany sends to Turkey amount to 1/3 of their total arms exports last year and are all navy equipment.

Libyan National Army

#15059802
Bild reports that Erdogan pressured Merkel to exclude Greece from the Summit and Merkel complied. Evidently, German political "geniuses" calculated that propping Erdogan is more important than the cohesion of the EU the very same month the UK is leaving the Union. :knife:

As I wrote in my previous post this Summit is just a prop for Erdogan and Merkel.

Atlantis in the 1st page of this thread wrote:How then do you explain that the mighty US of A just packed up to run away from Erdogan's Islamist thugs in Syria?

As to the EU, fortunately, EU members don't have any irridentist claims on each other.

Erdogan will play his neo-Ottoman games until he falls flat on his face. There is no way that he can get away with this claim for a maritime zone. It's joke.


How do you explain that Merkel did the same and that you are trying to help him get away with this exact claim? It's not an aggressive question and I am still hoping that you might attempt to reply to it without insulting the Greek nation.



Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias announces Greece willing to deploy military forces in Libya to observe the truce.

Merkel's and Erdogan's arrogance, entitlement & stupidity seem to have no end as General Hafter now has the official blessing of an EU, UN and NATO member and goes to Berlin as the de-facto National Leader of Libya rather than as a "rebel leader".
#15059806
noemon wrote:Turkey unashamedly claiming Greek territory..

The greatest shame is that Turkey (and Europe) are claiming TO BE Libya.

There is no "Libya" to agree with Turkey currently. Just two different armies funded by various Western proxies. So to say that "Libya" is negotiating anything here, is extremely racist. As in "we are the world," so we don't need a real Libyan government that represents the Libyan people.

You're only concern was with Greek pride and international reputation. But to dismiss non-Europeans and non-NATO members as "non-existent entities" doesn't bring many tears to your own case.

If Greece (and Canada, and France, and Turkey, and UAE...) are arguing about which pimp gets to control the resources of their new whore (Libya), something tells me "a solution" has to come from somewhere else - from a non-pimp.

And don't forget how easily pimps are killed, and no one sheds a tear when this happens.
#15059808
QatzelOk wrote:The greatest shame is that Turkey (and Europe) are claiming TO BE Libya.


Libya's GNA announced the theft of Greek territory. Greece does not claim to be anything and anybody and she is being screwed over in similar ways as Libya, front, left and centre.

Image

As long as Libya(whoever in there) considers our territory to be his own, then that guy is our enemy. We are not claiming anything from anybody, we just want to be left in peace. Your obfuscation is only attempting to legitimise pimping intended against us.
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