Turkey & Libya agree to split Greek territory, Libya invites Turkey to send military - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15059811
Indeed, ZN, with these kind of friends such as Germany it is evident that any kind of diplomatic solution would involve Greece being sacrificed. The Greek Minister of the Armed Forces warned today, "we do not want war and we are not warmongers, however we will defend our sovereignty at home and abroad with our Armed Forces".

Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Dendias announces Greece willing to deploy military forces in Libya to observe the truce.
#15059814
Zionist Nationalist wrote:noemon I think Greece should consider military intervention against the thugs of Erdogan
Greece could use its airforce and navy to stop the formation of a hostile government


Does this Honourable Member actually think Greece would win? I have a feeling that someone strong (e.g. Russia) will come to Turkey's aid.
#15059819
Patrickov wrote:Does this Honourable Member actually think Greece would win? I have a feeling that someone strong (e.g. Russia) will come to Turkey's aid.


Greece is a NATO member they can call the UK and the US for help
for now the pro western forces are winning but if Turkey tips the balance western intervention will be required
#15059823
Patrickov wrote:Does this Honourable Member actually think Greece would win? I have a feeling that someone strong (e.g. Russia) will come to Turkey's aid.


General Hafter is already winning the war in Libya without Greece getting directly involved in the conflict and that is why his enemies are scrambling for a truce to regroup. What do you think will happen as soon as Greece joins the fray in Libya? Logic would dictate the exact same thing that happened in WW1 and WW2. Greece has an enormous weapons depot, one of the largest in Europe actually even matching the UK in aircraft, frigates, submarines, tanks and missile systems and to top it off Greece has the Russian S-300 in Crete as well.
#15059827
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Greece is a NATO member they can call the UK and the US for help
for now the pro western forces are winning but if Turkey tips the balance western intervention will be required


I still remember how the UK U-turned after Mustafa Kemal beat the crap out of Greece. The current UK government seems even weaker or wimpier.

As for the US, well, Trump does not look like very interested in places west of Israel, although if Israel itself voices this out things might be different.
#15059829
noemon wrote:General Hafter is already winning the war in Libya without Greece getting directly involved in the conflict. What do you think will happen as soon as Greece joins the fray in Libya? Logic would dictate the exact same thing that happened in WW1 and WW2.


I am a bit confused. This posts seems implying noemon is against Greek involvement, but if it is so, it deviates from previous posts.

Or does this statement imply Greece can play the role assumed by the United States in WW1 and WW2?
#15059833
Patrickov wrote:I am a bit confused. This posts seems implying noemon is against Greek involvement, but if it is so, it deviates from previous posts.

Or does this statement imply Greece can play the role assumed by the United States in WW1 and WW2?


No, he's saying that Greece would beat their enemies if they ever did join in this conflict. Not that he wants Greece to have to do so.
#15059838
Patrickov wrote:I am a bit confused. This posts seems implying noemon is against Greek involvement, but if it is so, it deviates from previous posts.

Or does this statement imply Greece can play the role assumed by the United States in WW1 and WW2?


You have attempted a few times to misrepresent your interlocutor as well as to insult Greece.

Greece played a very important role in both World Wars as it was explained to you previously in this post in the first page. Greece tipped the scales against the Central Powers in WW1 and against the Axis in WW2. Why would she not tip the scales for Hafter when he is already winning that war?

Patrickov wrote:I still remember how the UK U-turned after Mustafa Kemal beat the crap out of Greece.


I understand you are a bit sour. Greece going to Ankara at the time is a bit like Hong Kong going to Beijing. For Kemal to save his capital and his nation from Greek annihilation, it took the combined efforts of Russia, Italy and France switching sides and abandoning their positions covering Greek lines forcing the Greek army into retreat.
#15059842
noemon wrote:I understand you are a bit sour. Greece going to Ankara at the time is a bit like Hong Kong going to Beijing. For Kemal to save his capital and his nation from Greek annihilation, it took the combined efforts of Russia, Italy and France switching sides and abandoning their positions covering Greek lines forcing the Greek army into retreat.


The problem was why the three of them switched sides. I could understand Russia but neither Italy nor France.

----

I am reading some recent developments of the Turkish "proposal" from reports in my local language. It takes a slightly different perspective, but not quite supportive to Turkey anyways, and according to the report, even Russia is not supporting them.

To be fair, the Mediterranean is even more complicated than the South China Sea that, every country, including Turkey, Greece, Libya, Cyprus, Syria, Israel, etc., are all locked up to some extent. Why there's anyone thinking grabbing more space would break the lock is a mystery to me.

I personally think Erdogan does not really mean it either. He just wants to rally people behind him. "Leaders"...
#15059843
@noemon ;

has attempted a few times to misrepresent his interlocutor as well as to insult Greece.


He does that in a number of areas, like China/Hong Kong/Taiwan.

Greece played a very important role in both World Wars as it was explained to you previously in this post in the first page. Greece tipped the scales against the Central Powers in WW1 and against the Axis in WW2. Why would she not tip the scales for Hafter when he is already winning that war?


Russia and Egypt are doing good by Haftar and the Libyan people. Wouldn't it be great if Greece, Serbia, Israel, Cyprus, and Russia were in Alliance?



I understand you are a bit sour. Greece going to Ankara at the time is a bit like Hong Kong going to Beijing. For Kemal to save his capital and his nation from Greek annihilation, it took the combined efforts of Russia, Italy and France switching sides and abandoning their positions covering Greek lines forcing the Greek army into retreat.


The West has always saved their Turkish Vassals, for a very long time before the Greco-Turkish war in the 1920's. The world ignored the genocide not only of the Armenians, but also the Pontic Greeks, did they not?
#15059846
Patrickov wrote:The problem was why the three of them switched sides. I could understand Russia but neither Italy nor France.


Even though this is not the topic here. Russia changed sides because the Bolsheviks won the civil war and Greece had sent military to support the White Army that had fought the Bolsheviks, they then took their revenge against Greece by arming and supporting Kemal. Italy switched sides because she wanted to keep the Turkish west coast for herself and the British & Americans shut them down by saying that it should go to Greece since it was full of Greek people. Italy stormed out the Paris conference and switched sides henceforth. France was convinced by Italy but she did not really perform any major actions either way.

Notably, Italy at the current issue has suggested that Turkey should become a "guarantor power in Libya" and refused to sign the Greek-French-Egyptian denunciation of this offensive Turko-Libyan maritime deal.
#15059857
Suggesting that Libya's sovereignty doesn't matter at all, noemon wrote:Your obfuscation is only attempting to legitimise pimping intended against us.

If Libya hadn't been destroyed by the alliance Greece belongs to (NATO), it wouldn't be next in line to lose its own national independence.

That you don't seem to care very much about Libya's invasion and takeover by foreigners and foreign vassals, suggests that no one smart (in the way you are smart) should take notice of Greece's existence as a people worth caring about either.

For me, until Libya belongs to Libyans again, no country belongs to its citizens. It all belongs to the highest bidder or biggest guns.
#15059863
QatzelOk wrote:If Libya hadn't been destroyed by the alliance Greece belongs to (NATO), it wouldn't be next in line to lose its own national independence.

That you don't seem to care very much about Libya's invasion and takeover by foreigners and foreign vassals, suggests that no one smart (in the way you are smart) should take notice of Greece's existence as a people worth caring about either.

For me, until Libya belongs to Libyans again, no country belongs to its citizens. It all belongs to the highest bidder or biggest guns.


In my opinion, supporting Hafter (who seems friendly to Gaddafi family) is quite close to supporting Libyans taking back their country.
#15059864
QatzelOk wrote:If Libya hadn't been destroyed by the alliance Greece belongs to (NATO), it wouldn't be next in line to lose its own national independence.

That you don't seem to care very much about Libya's invasion and takeover by foreigners and foreign vassals, suggests that no one smart (in the way you are smart) should take notice of Greece's existence as a people worth caring about either.

For me, until Libya belongs to Libyans again, no country belongs to its citizens. It all belongs to the highest bidder or biggest guns.


Good to know you are supporting Turkey stealing Greek territory because according to you I allegedly supported western intervention in Libya despite the fact that I didn't. I was one of the most vocal people against the intervention in Libya, as I was the same with Iraq, Syria and Yugoslavia. But even if I actually had done that, is that how you makes these judgements? :knife: You 're worse than the fake outrage manufactured by warmongers and it is quite clear that you have come full circle. Pity.
#15059867
noemon wrote:Good to know you are supporting Turkey stealing Greek territory because according to you I allegedly supported western intervention in Libya despite the fact that I didn't. I was one of the most vocal people against the intervention in Libya, as I was the same with Iraq, Syria and Yugoslavia. But even if I actually had done that, is that how you makes these judgements? :knife: You 're worse that the fake outrage manufactured by warmongers and it is quite clear that you have come full circle. Pity.


You can thank Obama for this mess
I also knew that this intervention will result in anarchy and civil war but at least half of pofo back in 2011 supported this nonsense
there should have been intervention to help Ghadaffi because he was a pro western dictator he stopped African infiltrators from getting into Europe
made trade deals with the EU
despite his faults in the past he did not support extremists (stopped doing that in the 80s) and did not sell weapons to terrorist organizations (alot of weapons were smuggled from Libya into the hands of Hamas ISIS al qaeda and other bastards)
#15059868
Obama has a fair share of responsibility but I think the real culprit against Libya was France & the UK, just like the real culprit against Yugoslavia was actually Germany. I do not think the Republicans would have done things differently though.
#15059872
noemon wrote:Good to know you are supporting Turkey stealing Greek territory because according to you I allegedly supported western intervention in Libya despite the fact that I didn't.

Not you (or me), but your country (and mine).

We (as in Greeks and Canadians) sat on our hands while our leaders joined in with the USA and EU in re-colonizing much of Africa and the Middle East. So if our sovereignty is next, no one will care about that either.

The biggest problem with Greece (and Canada) isn't that most people have the wrong opinions. It's that most people don't have any opinions at all, and this allows some very horrible people and institutions to get away with genocide, destruction of alternative social systems, and the colonization of countries that have never been allowed (by us) to develop themselves.

In the meantime, people can take sides (like Patrickov has above) as if this is some game that we should be taking odds on. Libyans get zero input, and neither will silent Greeks or silent Canadians.
#15059873
Zionist Nationalist wrote:You can thank Obama for this mess
I also knew that this intervention will result in anarchy and civil war but at least half of pofo back in 2011 supported this nonsense
there should have been intervention to help Ghadaffi because he was a pro western dictator he stopped African infiltrators from getting into Europe
made trade deals with the EU
despite his faults in the past he did not support extremists (stopped doing that in the 80s) and did not sell weapons to terrorist organizations (alot of weapons were smuggled from Libya into the hands of Hamas ISIS al qaeda and other bastards)


To be fair Gaddafi started out as a pro-Soviet anti-West dictator. He even downed the plane in Lockerbie. I agree, though, his actions in his last years should be seen as a kind of redemption, and the Western leaders at the time, especially Sarkozy, had quite some blood in his hands.

In the end, history was written by the victors. Had Libya been stable since 2011, and other regimes like Assad been defeated as well, Gaddafi's fall would have been seen as some kind of necessary evil at worst.
#15059874
QatzelOk wrote:In the meantime, people can take sides (like Patrickov has above) as if this is some game that we should be taking odds on. Libyans get zero input, and neither will silent Greeks or silent Canadians.


Sometimes it is a matter of "must" instead of merely "should".

Of course, the said occasion is usually when it's our home place that's affected.


QatzelOk wrote:So if our sovereignty is next, no one will care about that either.


My take is "sovereignty is bullshit if it has to be maintained through brutal or unreasonable means".

We should care, but not in the same way we are told to be.
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