China's Wuhan shuts down transport as global alarm mounts over virus spread - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15061550
Patrickov wrote:According to some viral videos, some Chinese probably think properly processed meat kills the fun. That's why wet markets are so rampant there.

Again, as long as they do not harm us in the process of dying, from having their karma for such kind of "fun", I am not against them having fun themselves.


Don't you live in Hong Kong?
#15061555
colliric wrote:Don't you live in Hong Kong?


Wet markets in Hong Kong have been constantly monitored and toned down ever since the 1997 avian flu epidemic.

Still wetter than counterparts in, say, Germany or even Japan, but probably better than in China or Thailand.

(I have been to wet markets in Munich, Canton, Kanazawa and Osaka. Although not Bangkok)
#15061558
Patrickov wrote:Wet markets in Hong Kong have been constantly monitored and toned down ever since the 1997 avian flu epidemic.


Good "Hong Kong Cafe"(Cha Chaan Teng, English name) you've got over there....

Australian Dairy Company in Jordan. Eggs and milk imported from my state apparently.

Rude service though. Get in, sit down, eat quick, pay and piss off. Lol. Great breakfast food makes up for it. Best "Australian" breakfast I've had in years. Loved it.
#15061559
colliric wrote:
Australian Dairy Company in Jordan. Eggs and milk imported from my state apparently.

Rude service though. Get in, sit down, eat quick, pay and piss off. Lol. Great breakfast food makes up for it. Best "Australian" breakfast I've had in years. Loved it.


I went there almost daily when I attended high school -- they were (and still are) just a few blocks away from each other.
#15061569
Ter wrote:I expect this pandemic to reach Bangladesh any time now.
We have thousands of Chinese working on big Chinese projects and thousands of Chinese in the garments industry travelling up and down constantly. And plenty of Bangladeshi business men travelling to and from China. I am pretty sure the virus is already here but the Authorities are not aware of it.
As usual, there are no preparations, no pre-stocking meds or protective clothing, no instructions to medical personnel.

So we will be on our own.
I arranged a pile of cash, food, medicines, face masks, sanitiser, disinfectants and whatever else.
During my shopping expeditions yesterday I saw nobody else obviously shopping to prepare for the corona virus.

I also advise all pofo posters to be careful, wherever you are, because that virus is about everywhere now.
Yes, also you, @JohnRawls

I still think that the pandemic is over hyped. What is 900 people from a population of more than a billion. We will see.
#15061571
JohnRawls wrote:I still think that the pandemic is over hyped. What is 900 people from a population of more than a billion. We will see.


Many people suspect that the Chinese Authorities are hiding the truth.
The updates they release might be as little as 1% of the truth... who knows ?

The videos uploaded by Chinese people using their cell phones on twitter are quite alarming.

But let's see, indeed.
#15061579
Patrickov wrote:According to some viral videos, some Chinese probably think properly processed meat kills the fun. That's why wet markets are so rampant there.


Not really, you should know that.

Chinese want to be sure that the produce they buy is fresh. Since they don't trust the suppliers, the only way to make sure is by buying life animals slaughtered in front of the customer. There used to be restaurants where animals were boiled alive at the customer's table. There is no refrigeration at many of these wet markets and supplies come from the country side every morning; however, traders are tempted to sell produce they didn't sell the previous days to avoid losses.

I saw these images for a couple of days and couldn't believe it. But they are building a 1,000 bed hospital in less than a week. And a second hospital for 1,300 beds is already started. The image of dozens of excavators shoving soil back and forth borders on the surreal.



The official figure of confirmed infections is now at 1,300 with another 1,900 suspected cases. They only update the official figures once every 24 hours so we won't know more until late today.
#15061580
I agree with @Atlantis
The same is true here in Bangladesh; if the fish is still moving, its price is higher.
Also, river fish is preferred to sea fish because the latter cannot reach the consumer whilst still alive.
Chickens are sold alive and slaughtered by the consumers, or at least in front of the consumer in the market. The one time I went buying a chicken from a local market, they came to show me a live chicken and then a few minutes later handed me a polythene bag with the same chicken slaughtered and cut into pieces. The bag was hot to the touch, I did not eat from that chicken...

They sent a live chicken from the village to our house for slaughter and food, I kept it alive on a balcony and named him Oscar. He escaped after a week lol.

I came to know just now that the Government here is preparing a hospital specifically for patients with the new corona virus. And so far officially nobody has been affected in the country.
#15061582
Carrie Lam held a press conference today.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hea ... t-two-more

Lam said "The government will also source for masks and [find ways] to settle the demand". According to the Chinese version, it seems the source is Mainland China.

----------

And according to the following Chinese source, a Hong Kong legislator allegedly said "Hong Kong and China is under the same family, we should not close the border on whim"

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/ch/component/ ... 200125.htm

TO HELL WITH IT!!!
#15061584
Atlantis wrote:Not really, you should know that.


I was mainly talking about people consuming bush meat in that post.

Wet markets in fact are not that infectious if they sell fresh common food. This time the outbreak is allegedly from a wet market for bush meat.

----------------

On a side note: Daily Mail claimed to receive a report that a possible source is a virus laboratory some 20 miles away:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... enter.html
#15061598
Patrickov wrote:
On a side note: Daily Mail claimed to receive a report that a possible source is a virus laboratory some 20 miles away:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/arti ... enter.html


Judging by the response of the authorities, this premise does not even seem alarmist or conspiratorial.

I've been in touch with a couple close friends in China. The whole country is in a panic, and the amount of infections is grossly under-reported (but we all knew that, or should know it by now).
#15061612
Crantag wrote:Judging by the response of the authorities, this premise does not even seem alarmist or conspiratorial.


I have seen that rumor about the biohazard lab in Wuhan for a few days, but I don't think it's true. There are even rumors that the CIA spread the virus. Damn, that would boost my fight against the Empire :lol:

Frankly, I don't even need that.

Here is a timeline of what happened:

This article isn't mainly about the situation leading up to what happened now, but was about the super spreader that infected 14 medical personnel. But it contains a lot of valuable information about what happened on the days leading up to now. I only translated the latter half as the former half are talking about the super spreader.

Suppressed information:

December 30th, 2019. A document with the seal of City of Wuhan's Health Commision's Medical administration surfaced on the internet. It was a emergency notice of "Continuous emergence of unknown origin pneumonia from Wuhan's Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market".

Ling Yi, a doctor from the Wuhan Union Hospital recalled that, when the epidemic just began, City of Wuhan's strategy is just "cold treatment". The hospital he's working at has been informed that, without approvement from the higher ups, it's forbidden to discuss the current situation with the public, it's also forbidden to accept media interview, and not just the clinical system, there are even tighter controls on the information from the department of infectious diseases and the CDC, "Just the whole thing cannot be talked about". At the time, the only advises doctors could've gave their patients is:"Face masks, face masks, you must buy face masks, and wear them", and maybe half jokingly told them "Don't buy stuff from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, the food there isn't fresh."

December 31st, public notice from the government of Wuhan claims that they diagnosed 27 cases, with 7 cases in severe conditions, no H2H transmission is observed, and no medical personnel is infected. People's Daily posted "Currently the source of the infection is unknown, we can know jump into the conclusion that it's SARS just because of the rumors online" on their Weibo.

Wuhan's Public Safety Agency conducted an investigation, they summoned 8 members that were spreading or sharing unproven rumors, and dealt with them following the laws, this was announced on their official Weibo on January 1st, 2020.

From January 6th to 10th, no reports of "Origin unknown pneumonia" came from Wuhan's Health Commission.

"On 31st December when the situation about the epidemic is announced, I went to brought some face masks, there was a long line at the pharmacy, and the face masks were sold out too. The few days afterwards, the officials warned us to not "spread rumors", and said "no H2H transmission occurred", we calmed down a lot. And then after another week, there wasn't an increase in confirmed cases, so we thought that was it." A citizen from Wuhan wrote on his personal Weibo account."

January 11st, in the latest report, Wuhan's Health Commission announced that: "Starting from January 3rd 2020, no new cases are discovered. Currently, no medical personnel are infected, and there's no conclusive evidences of H2H transmission."

A few days afterwards, Thailand, Japan starts reporting confirmed cases of the new Coronavirus.

From January 12nd to 17th, Meeting of Hubei Province People's Congress was held in Wuhan. January 18th, a community in the city held the 20th "Ten thousands family meal". January 20th noon, Wuhan's office of Emergency Management threw a Chinese New Year Party. January 21th, Provincial CNY artistic performance was held in the Hongshan Auditorium. The Hubei's National Song and Dance Troupe official Weibo account wrote that, the leaders of the province and several representatives from various sectors was attending, "In Wuhan, everyone is wearing layers of face masks, they overcome the fear of the pneumonia, moving forward with their dedication, persistent, and seriousness."

Before January 20th, there's not many people wearing face masks on the streets of Wuhan. Ling Yi asked a worker from Wuhan's subway why isn't he wearing a face mask, he replied that the higher up wouldn't allow it, they are afraid that it will caused unnecessary panic."It's horrifying to think back now! If back then, the officials was clear about the situation, at least 60% of the people would have been prepared." Ling Yi told Chinese News Weekly Magazine.

"The moment where everyone realize the dreadfulness of the situation is on January 20th, when Dr. Zhong Nanshan came out (About H2H transmission). Multiple respondents said that, at that time the Wuhan Union Hospital had already turned their body checking facility into "temporary infection center", the first floor is IV treatment room. Second and third floor is patient's wards, 4th floor is medical personnel's quarantine room, as early as 19th January, some medical personnel that were suspected to be infected had been quarantined in there, at the peak there is more than 20 medical personnel being suspected to be infected.

January 20th, after Zhong Nanshan came out, the chaos continues. January 22nd, Liu Fang, a pregnant woman who was suspected to be infected with the new Coronavirus, was about to be in labour. She was never given a CAT Scan as she was afraid that it will affect the baby, and because the coronavirus test kits was severely lacking, she was never diagnosed.

"She was diagnosed on the day of labour, because it was her first labour and C-section was necessary. The doctor had no choice, so they put on Class III protection suit, and did the surgery like astronauts."Ling Yi told Chinese News Weekly Magazine.

23th January, "Wuhan's Health Commission answered questions from several concerned citizens" is published, on the days leading up to 23th, they are able to test 200 cases every day, but just the fever clinics of Wuhan Union Hospital have nearly 200 people queuing everyday, and this is just one out of the seven hospitals that is giving treatments.

At the time, the queue in Wuhan Union Hospital can takes up to maximum of 5 hours, and a minimum of 2 to 3 hours. "The patient reported their condition, and they wouldn't get the response in a few days, the higher ups keep telling us to wait, there was too many people, so a lot of doctors and patient cannot be diagnosed. Ling Yi said, at the time, there are nearly 30 medical personnel being quarantined.

With the exception of the medical personnel that is taking fever patients who are wearing Class III protections such as goggles, face mask, isolation gown, the doctors and nurses from other departments and in the wards have no additional protection other than a face mask.

"We need help!" A neurosurgeon who sorted out a list of 20 hospitals in Wuhan, and posted on his personal social media account posted that, "The supplies are low, most hospitals only have supplies to last 3 to 5 days."

(To protect the identity of the respondents, Liu Fang, Zhao Jun Shi, Ling Yi are all pseudonyms)

Chinese original


Before January 20th, there was a classical Chinese cover-up. City officials didn't want to upset anybody because of the Meeting of Hubei Province People's Congress from 12nd to 17th, and because of the "Ten thousands family meal" on the 20th.

In the end, they had to come clear on the 20th because the virus had spread to Thailand and Japan. That would have been impossible without "human-to-human" (H2H) infection.

We can't tell from what point exactly they understood that they were dealing with a potential pandemic virus, but it must have started to dawn on them about a week before the 20th. They just kept on hoping that it wouldn't be so bad. So they delayed the decision until after the Council meeting and the banquet.

If the virus had escaped the biohazard lab in Wuhan, the authorities would have understood the problem much earlier.
#15061625
Nurse speaking from Wuhan



This is probably genuine, but we obviously don't know how accurate her information is.

This is actually a translation from Korean because the footage was shown on Korean TV.

Hello everyone in the world, I am OOO. I am currently in Hubei region where the Wuhan virus spread to. I am trying to tell the truth right now.

Right now Hubei region and surrounding (?) regions have about 90,000 infected people right now

How much do you know about the Wuhan virus’s contagion/transmission potential (?)

If 1 person is infected, and if you are unable to specifically identify the person who is infected by the Wuhan virus and they are not treated properly, the infected person can at least infect 14 people. So in theory it becomes 14 x 14

Currently it is Lunar New year/ Chinese New Year

Everyone in this region all wants to go home and spend their time with their families and eat dinner together

Right now we are in a special (?) situation

I want to tell everyone that is watching this right now to not go outside, including partying (probably for the new years), or go out to eat

We have Lunar New Year every year, so if you are healthy right now you can celebrate it next year with everyone

I will talk about current Hubei region’s medical situation

Currently Hubei and Wuhan region’s medical system doesn’t care about what the government says.

Right now I am asking through SNS (media). Please send mask, goggles, and clothes to Wuhan city

Please help. Please send disposable goggles, masks, and clothings

We are all running out of these

Currently all the doctors at the hospitals, even surgeons, are putting in their efforts to contain/treat Wuhan virus

Please whoever is watching this. Listen to me

During Lunar New Year please do not go outside

the reason I am doing this is because I wish the people I love (mother and my family) to be healthy

I hope everyone understands this

If you are watching this, please spread this video and information

We must know and be aware about this issue.

This is government’s duty (?) (not too sure, my korean to enligsh ability is lacking)

Currently Wuhan Virus is in its 2nd mutation, and we must let people know. I will repeat, you can cure/treat the symptoms at 1st mutation

If 2nd mutation occurs then even worse things will happen, because then not only is one person going be infected, its going to infected everyone around

Then Wuhan virus will spread exponentially

Please do not go outside, thank you


Another nurse is speaking of 100,000 infections:

#15061628
So we have a thread about government cover-up, wet markets and various other conspiracy theories. Here is the real deal.

Outbreaks like this are absolutely inevitable. They are going to happen. Of course there are ways to make them slightly less likely but in most cases we never really know where the outbreak started with any specificity.

This virus is extremely dangerous. It is a real killer. Anything a nation can do to contain or prevent infection is probably a good thing. Closing the borders? Possibly. But that usually happens too late. The early deaths (there have been 45 reported) were in older people WITH other health problems. One death though was in a young healthy man so it may be more dangerous than originally thought. There is no doubt in my mind that this is far more widespread in China than is being reported.

What will happen? Who knows? My guess will be that many more cases will be identified in the US but that because they will be high visibility patients they will get pretty good care while isolated. In China? The genie is out of the proverbial bottle there. Isolation and quarantine are the best bet.

The USARMID is developing a vaccine and one drug company is well into a treatment drug. We'll see.

Worrying about who shot John at this point is not particularly interesting to public health officials and probably should not be to us either. Generally speaking conspiracy theories hinder rather than assist in government efforts to contain the disease.
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