[Donna]

@Donna

2 points:
1- The left is present in the government in the UK and other European countries as such participate in the creation of these laws and policies.

Which laws and policies are you referring to? The UK has been under Tory rule for a decade. The National Assembly in France is controlled by centrists. Christian Democrats control the Bundestag.

2- I specifically state very early on that the left-wing progressives are preventing or putting obstacles in the path of enforcing the law, which I did prove.

No, you didn't.

As said before, anyone claiming is that people demanding free speech are "fascist-adjacent" is someone who didn't even go through the wikipedia page on fascism.

Read more social theory.

-You can laugh all you want, the facts are simple.
Privilege is relative and context-dependent,; As such, any general statement made regarding a collective having privilege is an illogical statement and the person who said it is, to put it very lightly, an idiot.

Whiteness
Whiteness studies draws on research into the definition of race, originating with the United States but applying to racial stratification worldwide. This research emphasizes the historically recent social construction of white identity. As stated by W. E. B. Du Bois in 1920: "The discovery of a personal whiteness among the world's peoples is a very modern thing,—a nineteenth and twentieth century matter, indeed."[25] The discipline examines how white, Native, and African/black identities emerged in interaction with the institutions of slavery, colonial settlement, citizenship, and industrial labor. Scholars such as Winthrop Jordan[26] have traced the evolution of the legally defined line between "blacks" and "whites" to colonial government efforts to prevent cross-racial revolts among unpaid laborers.

Princeton professor Nell Irvin Painter, in her 2010 book The History of White People,[27] says the idea of whiteness is not just a matter of biology but also includes "concepts of labor, gender, class, and images of personal beauty".(p. xi) The earliest European societies, including the Greeks and Romans, had no concept of race and classified people by ethnicity and social class, with the lowest class being slaves, most of whom were European in origin.(p. xi) Race science, developed in Europe in the 1800s, included intense analysis of different groups of Europeans, who were classified as belonging to three or four different races, with the most admirable being from northern Europe.(pp. 215–6) From the early days of the United States, whiteness was a criterion for full citizenship and acceptance into society. The American definition of whiteness evolved over time; initially groups such as Jews and southern Europeans were not regarded as white, but as skin color became the primary criterion, they were gradually accepted. Painter argues that in the 21st century the definition of whiteness - or more precisely the definition of "nonblackness" - has continued to expand, so that now "The dark of skin who happen to be rich ... and the light of skin from any (racial background) who are beautiful, are now well on their way to inclusion."(pp. 389–90.)

Academic Joseph Pugliese is among writers who have applied whiteness studies to an Australian context, discussing the ways that Indigenous Australians were marginalized in the wake of British colonization of Australia, as whiteness came to be defined as central to Australian identity, diminishing Aboriginal identity in the process.[28][29] Pugliese discusses the 20th-century White Australia policy as a conscious attempt to preserve the "purity" of whiteness in Australian society.[30][31] Likewise Stefanie Affeldt considers whiteness "a concept not yet fully developed at the time the first convicts and settlers arrived down under" [32] which, as a social relation, had to be negotiated and was driven forward in particular by the labour movement. Eventually, with the Federation of Australia, "[o]verlaying social differences, the shared membership in the 'white race' was the catalyst for the consolidation of the Australian colonies as the Commonwealth of Australia".[33]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness ... #Whiteness

You didn't.

In my view the Spanish Falange, Fascismo Italiano, the Nazis, the Austrofascists, the Phoenicians, et al., are all fascist scum and villainy. You're welcome to disagree and call me names but all you're doing is disagreeing with my philosophical world view.

Infact, the people who currently claim to be fighting fascists in the west are not only clueless on what fascism is but also the soft muffins who either get killed off right away or just run away from the fight.
The people currently fighting real fascists are generally split between Liberals, socialists, conservatives, tribals, monarchists, etc.

Here in North America fighting fascism means confronting and deplatforming white nationalists and white supremacists. I don't know what to tell you.

[anasawad]

@Donna

Which laws and policies are you referring to? The UK has been under Tory rule for a decade. The National Assembly in France is controlled by centrists. Christian Democrats control the Bundestag.

As it stands right now, in the UK, liberals control the policy internally (since all liberal demanded policies gets passed and all conservative policies are offed), all while conservatives control foreign policy.
Primarily because the "right" isn't united in other than foreign policy and as such fails to control the paradigm internally.

You can take the BBC as an example.

No, you didn't.

I did, first 3 or 4 posts.

Whiteness
Whiteness studies draws on research into the definition of race, originating with the United States but applying to racial stratification worldwide. This research emphasizes the historically recent social construction of white identity. As stated by W. E. B. Du Bois in 1920: "The discovery of a personal whiteness among the world's peoples is a very modern thing,—a nineteenth and twentieth century matter, indeed."[25] The discipline examines how white, Native, and African/black identities emerged in interaction with the institutions of slavery, colonial settlement, citizenship, and industrial labor. Scholars such as Winthrop Jordan[26] have traced the evolution of the legally defined line between "blacks" and "whites" to colonial government efforts to prevent cross-racial revolts among unpaid laborers.

Princeton professor Nell Irvin Painter, in her 2010 book The History of White People,[27] says the idea of whiteness is not just a matter of biology but also includes "concepts of labor, gender, class, and images of personal beauty".(p. xi) The earliest European societies, including the Greeks and Romans, had no concept of race and classified people by ethnicity and social class, with the lowest class being slaves, most of whom were European in origin.(p. xi) Race science, developed in Europe in the 1800s, included intense analysis of different groups of Europeans, who were classified as belonging to three or four different races, with the most admirable being from northern Europe.(pp. 215–6) From the early days of the United States, whiteness was a criterion for full citizenship and acceptance into society. The American definition of whiteness evolved over time; initially groups such as Jews and southern Europeans were not regarded as white, but as skin color became the primary criterion, they were gradually accepted. Painter argues that in the 21st century the definition of whiteness - or more precisely the definition of "nonblackness" - has continued to expand, so that now "The dark of skin who happen to be rich ... and the light of skin from any (racial background) who are beautiful, are now well on their way to inclusion."(pp. 389–90.)

Academic Joseph Pugliese is among writers who have applied whiteness studies to an Australian context, discussing the ways that Indigenous Australians were marginalized in the wake of British colonization of Australia, as whiteness came to be defined as central to Australian identity, diminishing Aboriginal identity in the process.[28][29] Pugliese discusses the 20th-century White Australia policy as a conscious attempt to preserve the "purity" of whiteness in Australian society.[30][31] Likewise Stefanie Affeldt considers whiteness "a concept not yet fully developed at the time the first convicts and settlers arrived down under" [32] which, as a social relation, had to be negotiated and was driven forward in particular by the labour movement. Eventually, with the Federation of Australia, "[o]verlaying social differences, the shared membership in the 'white race' was the catalyst for the consolidation of the Australian colonies as the Commonwealth of Australia".[33]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness ... #Whiteness

Two points:

1- From the very beginning:

Whiteness studies is the study of the structures that produce white privilege

From the start.
2-The part you are quoting proves my point that privilege is relative while disproving your reasoning.

In my view the Spanish Falange, Fascismo Italiano, the Nazis, the Austrofascists, the Phoenicians, et al., are all fascist scum and villainy.

I would've taken your opinion if you didn't put the Phoenician movement in there.
Since that movement is not only liberal, but it's also democratic, socialist-leaning, and formed a key part of the resistance against the Fascist occupation.

See, you really need to read up on what fascism is before you talk.

You're welcome to disagree and call me names but all you're doing is disagreeing with my philosophical world view.

That's not philosophical world view, that's a commentary on the philosophical and ideological world view of other people and groups.

Here in North America fighting fascism means confronting and deplatforming white nationalists and white supremacists. I don't know what to tell you.

While Ethno nationalism is a policy adopted by Fascists, not all Ethno nationalists are fascists.
E.g. Ethno nationalists can also be theocrats and socialists.

[ingliz]

neo-Nazi

The AfD - "The political arm of right wing terrorism" in Germany.

[anasawad]

@ingliz
Sure, after the split, only remains the nazis in it, and after the split it became a small minority.
So, confirms my earlier point of actual fascists being a fringe in Europe.

[Donna]

@Donna

(since all liberal demanded policies gets passed and all conservative policies are offed)

I did, first 3 or 4 posts.

Not seeing it.

2-The part you are quoting proves my point that privilege is relative while disproving your reasoning.

No, it doesn't.

I would've taken your opinion if you didn't put the Phoenician movement in there.
Since that movement is not only liberal, but it's also democratic, socialist-leaning, and formed a key part of the resistance against the Fascist occupation.

No, Phoenicianism definitely falls under the moniker of fascism as it attempts to construct an Aryanist narrative to distinguish Maronites and Christians from Muslim Arabs. With that said, it seems my suspicions of you have been confirmed: you are a Falangist neo-fascist and fellow traveler of the Alt-Right. A virulent Islamophobe who hates Arabs. This is why you couldn't stop talking about Arabs when the conversation was initially about South Asians.

While Ethno nationalism is a policy adopted by Fascists, not all Ethno nationalists are fascists.
E.g. Ethno nationalists can also be theocrats and socialists.

[anasawad]

@Donna

When every policy demanded by the progressive becomes law in the UK, it is clear they're the ones controling the internal land scape.
While all foreign policies seem to be controlled by the right.
As discussed thousands of times right here on this forum and daily, endlessly, on British news.

Again, the BBC alone is an example of this.

No, it doesn't.

The part you quoted states it's a study on a macro scale and in the west. White people do exist outside the west, and for many, they're literally enslaved.
Once you go on a micro scale instead of addressing nations as a whole, you'd see that oppression is not limited to minorities in the west.
Human trafficking can touch both white and non-white victims, as is the case of this thread.
There are black billionares and white homeless people.
etc.

Context-dependent.

No, Phoenicianism definitely falls under the moniker of fascism as it attempts to construct an Aryanist narrative to distinguish Maronites and Christians from Muslim Arabs.

LMAO.
Phoenicianism is Lebanese nationalism, and almost everyone in Baalbek here adopts it. Baalbek is Muslim Shia majority.
And recently it is spreading to Sunnis as well.

With that said, it seems my suspicions of you have been confirmed: you are a Falangist neo-fascist and fellow traveler of the Alt-Right.

The Falangist party under Samy Jmail at the moment is a liberal, democratic, socialist party that is advocating for human rights, lebanese sovereignty, neutrality, social welfare, LGBT rights, women's rights, etc.
And it's not exclusively Christian as it was in the 70s and 80s, but currently it has around half of its members being Muslims and its Muslim crowd is actually growing with the protests as Samy Jmail is with the protests.

And the Falangist party post 90s fought against Fascist occupation (i.e. Baath occupation).

You really don't know much about this topic don't you.

A virulent Islamophobe who hates Arabs.

I'm an Athiest, but my family are Muslims. And my town is made up of majority Muslims.

This is why you couldn't stop talking about Arabs when the conversation was initially about South Asians.

I was talking about the regimes I know and could give direct examples from. And since my knowledge is mainly focused on the Muslim world and the middle east in specific, I can give those examples.
Noting that of those examples was Pakistan and I explained how the Deobandis (Pakistani and Indian school of thought) affected this mentality and how the Muslim brotherhood played a role. Those places are connected you know, right?



-
The Kurds are both ethno nationalists and socialists.
The Clerics in Iran are Persian nationalists and Shia Theocrats.
The Baath party is Arab nationalists and fascists.
The Wahabis are Najdi nationalists and Sunni theocrats.
The Taliban are Pashtun nationalists and Sunni Theocrats.
The Azzari Turks in Iran are Ethno nationalists and Socialists.
The tribes in Baalbek are Ethno nationalists (Phoenicians) and communists.
The Coptic Church is Coptic nationalist and (Edit) Coptic Christian Theocrats.
(mistaked it for Orthodox, but then I remembered that the Orthodox copts are only a minority living in Lebanon while the rest are their own thing.)


Please, continue to display your ignorance.

[Donna]

@Donna

When every policy demanded by the progressive becomes law in the UK, it is clear they're the ones controling the internal land scape.

Sounds like your tin-foil hat might be wrapped on a little bit too tight.

The part you quoted states it's a study on a macro scale and in the west. White people do exist outside the west, and for many, they're literally enslaved.
Once you go on a micro scale instead of addressing nations as a whole, you'd see that oppression is not limited to minorities in the west.
Human trafficking can touch both white and non-white victims, as is the case of this thread.
There are black billionares and white homeless people.
etc.

White supremacy/privilege exists in varying degrees in every modern human society.

LMAO.
Phoenicianism is Lebanese nationalism, and almost everyone in Baalbek here adopts it. Baalbek is Muslim Shia majority.
And recently it is spreading to Sunnis as well.

Wrong.

From Wiki:

Proponents claim that the land of Lebanon has been inhabited uninterruptedly since Phoenician times, and that the current population descends from the original population, with some admixture due to immigration over the centuries. They argue that Arabization merely represented a shift to the Arabic language as the vernacular of the Lebanese people, and that, according to them, no actual shift of ethnic identity, much less ancestral origins, occurred.

This is basically an Aryan-purity/Hyperborean-origins myth. It's an attempt to advance the development of white supremacy in Lebanon.

I was talking about the regimes I know and could give direct examples from. And since my knowledge is mainly focused on the Muslim world and the middle east in specific, I can give those examples.

You seem pretty ignorant of how things are in the West.

[anasawad]

@Donna

White supremacy/privilege exists in varying degrees in every modern human society.

White ethno nationalism and white "privilege" are two different things.
And every modern society? There is white privilege in Qatar you mean? Where the import white girls as sex slaves?
Or are you talking about China where every non-Han person is considered inferior?

Wrong.

Proponents claim that the land of Lebanon has been inhabited uninterruptedly since Phoenician times, and that the current population descends from the original population, with some admixture due to immigration over the centuries. They argue that Arabization merely represented a shift to the Arabic language as the vernacular of the Lebanese people, and that, according to them, no actual shift of ethnic identity, much less ancestral origins, occurred.

Ooh great, so it appears to be true that western Leftists don't know how to read.

Yes, and the Baalbek tribes, which has been in Baalbek for the past 4000 years, do believe that because it is true. The mixing mainly took place in the coast while the mountain and valley tribes remained semi-isolated and only mixed with other tribes in the early periods, but that's not the case now.

The Baalbek tribes are, nonetheless, Lebanese nationalists; Said by someone who is currently staying in Baalbek and part of those tribes and actively participating in the movement by those tribes.

All the tribes in Lebanon be they Shias, Christians, Or Sunni have been living here since thousands of years, with only minor exceptions of foreign tribes settling in as well.
Was there mixing? Yes, ofcourse, that doesn't mean these tribes stopped existing. If you married a tribal here for example, you become part of the tribe, absorbed into to it, that's how tribes operate, that's how mixing happens, and that's why you can see people of all colors and ethnicities in Lebanon, yet all are Lebanese, and Lebanon is majority tribal.

This is basically an Aryan-purity/Hyperborean-origins myth.

What type of retarded bullshit are you talking about? Purity?
Lebanon has a mixture of 18 ethnic groups. Purity of what?

Oh for fuck's sake, white supremacy in the middle east now? We're not even white for fuck's sake.
You've gone full mad.

[Donna]

@Donna

White ethno nationalism and white "privilege" are two different things.
And every modern society? There is white privilege in Qatar you mean? Where the import white girls as sex slaves?
Or are you talking about China where every non-Han person is considered inferior?

In a word, white supremacy is constantly trying to expand the composition of whiteness. Initially it excluded Italians, Spaniards, Irish, Slavs, Jews, et al. before coming to adopt to them as white, for example. In more recent years that pattern of adaptation has spread to every society on the planet that is undergoing rapid economic development and where indigenous populations have historically intermixed with European colonialists. In other places white supremacy/privilege is exported in the form of global culture, technology, commerce, etc., as is the case for small middle classes in emerging economies.

Oh for fuck's sake, white supremacy in the middle east now? We're not even white for fuck's sake.
You've gone full mad.

Read more social theory.

[ingliz]

on a macro scale

Note that the Quilliam report, produced by a right wing think tank with links to anti-Muslim conspiracy theorists and hate groups. the report upon which all the hysterical crap raised in this thread rests, "a case study in bad science: riddled with errors, inconsistencies, a glaring lack of transparency, sweeping claims and gross generalisations unfounded in its own ‘data’”, tells us that Asian CSE offenders represent just 0.01% of the UK’s Asian population and they could only arrive at that number by cherry picking their cases.

[anasawad]

@Donna

In a word, white supremacy is constantly trying to expand the composition of whiteness. Initially it excluded Italians, Spaniards, Irish, Slavs, Jews, et al

Meaning it's become useless and meaningless if it'll include everyone.
Why don't you "progressives" try be honest for once and say it straight that what you actually mean is the Bourgeoisie?

In more recent years that pattern of adaptation has spread to every society on the planet that is undergoing rapid economic development and where indigenous populations have historically intermixed with European colonialists.

Bullshit.
Your progressive narrative is clear and is illogical.
You're trying to frame it as being middle class is being white, it's not.

Race=/= class.
From a middle eastern perspective, white European people have been brought here as slaves and after less than a century of that trend stopping, it is now returning, which refutes the entire illogical notion of "White privilege".

Attempting to build a narrative that white= middle class Bourgeoisie is also pointless since that would mean that if a black person becomes a middle class member, then they become white. And if there is a black dictator with 10s of billions of dollars, then he's somehow "White". And the billion Chinese who left poverty to become middle class under socialism somehow all became "White".

Your narrative is illogical and baseless.

In other places white supremacy/privilege is exported in the form of global culture, technology, commerce, etc., as is the case for small middle classes in emerging economies.

-Globalization is inevitable as it has been seen being the case even before Technological progress and even all the way back to the Bronze age civilization which most of Europe was a frozen wasteland back then.

-Technological progress is inevitable and isn't a "European" thing as only recently did Europeans take the lead in it.

-Global Commerce isn't even controlled by the west anymore with most economic and commercial activity is in Asia.

- And the rise of the middle classes across the world isn't a "White" thing, it's the natural and desired result of development that will happen with or without Europeans since it already predates all European civilizations.
For fuck's sake, that's the whole point of socialism.

Read more social theory.

I already read more than enough to see through your narrative and know that the so called "Progressives" in the west are just as illogical, unreasonable, and idiotic as those of the far right.

What should be the case is you trying to read up on basic logic and reason, and maybe, just maybe, try a bit in philosophy, it can go a long way in getting you out of this dumb ideological nonsense.


@ingliz
I know they're a minority, they're gangs, ofcourse they'll be a minority.
That doesn't deny the fact that the gangs and human traffickers are running away from the middle east and into Europe, and are the cause of these problems.

And just as they're a minority fringe group using violence here, they'll be the exact same thing there.

[anasawad]

dlt

[Truth To Power]

It's not possible to be racist against white-passing people.

Disgraceful. By that cultural Marxist "logic," the Holocaust was not racist because everyone conceded Jews were white.

Prejudice, yes, but racism is about power and who has it.

When young white girls are being groomed, raped, prostituted and sold into sexual slavery by South Asian Muslim men, it is the latter who have the power, and I will thank you to remember it.

[Truth To Power]

Sounds like your tin-foil hat might be wrapped on a little bit too tight.

Look who's talking:

White supremacy/privilege exists in varying degrees in every modern human society.

What an absurd load of post-modernist tripe.

From Wiki:

Proponents claim that the land of Lebanon has been inhabited uninterruptedly since Phoenician times, and that the current population descends from the original population, with some admixture due to immigration over the centuries. They argue that Arabization merely represented a shift to the Arabic language as the vernacular of the Lebanese people, and that, according to them, no actual shift of ethnic identity, much less ancestral origins, occurred.

This is basically an Aryan-purity/Hyperborean-origins myth. It's an attempt to advance the development of white supremacy in Lebanon.

That is absurd, anti-factual, anti-historical, anti-logical neo-Marxist garbage.

You seem pretty ignorant of how things are in the West.

No, you are absolutely ignorant of everything but your post-modern, neo-Marxist, deconstructionist, critical theory gibberish.

[Truth To Power]

In a word, white supremacy is constantly trying to expand the composition of whiteness.

That makes zero sense. If anything, we would expect it to be exclusionary, like the Nazi ideal of Aryanism.

Initially it excluded Italians, Spaniards, Irish, Slavs, Jews, et al. before coming to adopt to them as white, for example.

Garbage with no basis in fact. They were always considered white, just not Protestant.

In more recent years that pattern of adaptation has spread to every society on the planet that is undergoing rapid economic development and where indigenous populations have historically intermixed with European colonialists. In other places white supremacy/privilege is exported in the form of global culture, technology, commerce, etc., as is the case for small middle classes in emerging economies.

I try not to read stupid, dishonest trash, thanks. Read some facts.

[Donna]

@Donna

Meaning it's become useless and meaningless if it'll include everyone.
Why don't you "progressives" try be honest for once and say it straight that what you actually mean is the Bourgeoisie?

It will not include everyone because white supremacy is an adaptation to scarcity.

Bullshit.
Your progressive narrative is clear and is illogical.
You're trying to frame it as being middle class is being white, it's not.

In the case of emerging economies, there are definitely racially entrenched middle classes.

-Globalization is inevitable as it has been seen being the case even before Technological progress and even all the way back to the Bronze age civilization which most of Europe was a frozen wasteland back then.

Most of human history is inequity, oppression, enslavement, etc. That doesn't make it okay except in the eyes of fascists.

- And the rise of the middle classes across the world isn't a "White" thing, it's the natural and desired result of development that will happen with or without Europeans since it already predates all European civilizations.
For fuck's sake, that's the whole point of socialism.

Read more social theory. Whiteness doesn't organically exist as it's a social construction and it has nothing to do with socialism as whiteness is inherently anti-egalitarian.

What should be the case is you trying to read up on basic logic and reason, and maybe, just maybe, try a bit in philosophy, it can go a long way in getting you out of this dumb ideological nonsense.

Read more social theory.

[Donna]

@Truth To Power it's amazing that you posted 3 consecutive responses to me without actually saying anything other than angrily describing your inner monologue. Sounds like you're triggered.

[Truth To Power]

@Truth To Power it's amazing that you posted 3 consecutive responses to me without actually saying anything other than angrily describing your inner monologue.

You can't refute a word I wrote, so you have decided to make some $#!+ up. Inevitably.

Sounds like you're triggered.

Dishonesty does have that effect on me, true. Can't help it. I can't forget that evil must always be justified, and the only way to justify it is with lies.

[Truth To Power]

Asian

You mean South Asian Muslim?

CSE offenders represent just 0.01% of the UK’s Asian population and they could only arrive at that number by cherry picking their cases.

What fraction of the OFFENSES do they account for, hmmmm?

[ingliz]

What fraction of...

6 cases out of 52 in 2012.

And, in those 6 cases, 36% of the offenders were Asian, 38% white, the rest unknown. Seeing as ethnicity wasn't logged at that time unless a brown face was involved, we can safely assume the other 46 grooming gangs were wholly white, most probably white men.