How Screwed is the UK Labour Party Now? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15068612


This is a bit random but I just saw this snippet on youtube. Like or loathe him TB was Labour's most electable Party Leader, so it might be he understands a thing or two about getting elected. I think his point about how those who switched their votes from labour to Tory for the first time ever in that last GE might find it a lot easier to do it a second time is quite encouraging.
#15068661
SolarCross wrote:HOW SCREWED IS THE UK LABOUR PARTY NOW?

Not as screwed as the Tory party will be in a few years time when the Brexit chickens come home to roost. There is no oil to bail you out this time.


:lol:
#15068663
ingliz wrote:Not as screwed as the Tory party will be in a few years time when the Brexit chickens come home to roost. There is no oil to bail you out this time.

That is probably wishful thinking on your part.

Regardless the tories only did what the electorate wanted and so the electorate are not going to punish them for doing what they were told to do, even if it turns out more painful than expected. I am pretty sure the vast majority of brexiters expect some economic hardship, but they are not fussed. No pain, no gain, as they say.
Last edited by SolarCross on 20 Feb 2020 21:02, edited 1 time in total.
#15068667
SolarCross wrote:

Regardless the tories only did what the electorate wanted and so the electorate are not going to punish them for doing what they were told to do, even if it turns out more painful than expected. I am pretty sure the vast majority of brexiters expect some economic hardship, but they are not fussed. No pain, no gain, as they say.



I do love a good myth.

The country was evenly split, the support came much later, and was a simple result of frustration. They wanted it over.

I seem to remember the fools saying Brexit would make things better. But lowering expectations is VERY sensible now that things are about to get fubar...
#15068685
late wrote:I seem to remember the fools saying Brexit would make things better. But lowering expectations is VERY sensible now that things are about to get fubar...


I know someone who does believe that the United Kingdom will turn out better because the judicial system of it be better than the Continental one, thereby attracting investors more. Also he believes the UK will forge a closer tie with other members of Commonwealth of Nations.

In general I find people in the East view Brexit in a more positive light than the above opinion.
#15068693
I think people are getting pretty sick of hearing politicians talk about attracting investors and the usual dogma of the GDP cult. It makes politicos look powerless and weak.
#15068729
Donna wrote:I think people are getting pretty sick of hearing politicians talk about attracting investors and the usual dogma of the GDP cult. It makes politicos look powerless and weak.
If I am to make an opinion myself I would say I credit the British system more about its tendency of judicial fairness and trustworthyness in the administration.
#15068863
SolarCross wrote:That is probably wishful thinking on your part.

Regardless the tories only did what the electorate wanted and so the electorate are not going to punish them for doing what they were told to do, even if it turns out more painful than expected. I am pretty sure the vast majority of brexiters expect some economic hardship, but they are not fussed. No pain, no gain, as they say.


Is that what you read in Sun or on the back of a beer mat?

Leavers are stupid.

Stupid enough to blame the EU instead of themselves.
#15068869
The UK economy will most likely shrink. The question is, who will it hurt the most when it shrinks? The working classes or the rich?

Historically speaking, the rich benefit when the economy expands, and the rich are impacted less when it shrinks.
#15068881
Rancid wrote:The UK economy will most likely shrink. The question is, who will it hurt the most when it shrinks? The working classes or the rich?

Historically speaking, the rich benefit when the economy expands, and the rich are impacted less when it shrinks.



Maybe the UK economy will shrink, maybe it won’t. Given the storm clouds on the horizon for the global economy as a whole, I’d expect shrink it will.

However, the UK looks better than the EU for investment. The EU has deep structural imbalances in labour markets and financial institutions. The majority of EU members must sacrifice domestic economic policy to serve the shared currency. As @Patrickov points out, the EU doesn’t have quite the level of accountability as is offered by the British legal system.

So I’d say the UK is a safer investment destination than the EU. Quite possibly the pound would be a better long term investment than the Euro, the later will become worthless if the EU collapses.


As regards who will suffer when the economy contracts, it is whoever lacks political power. In the UK at present, it looks like the supposed left, tertiary educated, urban elites are rapidly losing their previous lofty status, so I would expect that group and their retains to be the ones who cop it. One can but hope, anyway.

Of course, the last time the English persecuted a comparable group, the Puritans were forced to settle in the lands that would one day become the USA. ;)
#15068892
not screwed enough apparently. not screwed enough to come off the identitarian bullshit. not screwed enough to start backing away from open borders and technocratic globalism. not screwed enough to learn their lesson.
#15076473


Overall it is very good that we have a tory government with a decent majority particularly given the circumstances. In the long run though I can't help thinking we will need a decent opposition party to replace the looney left and the traitor lib dems, if only to keep the Conservatives from getting complacent.
#15081582
Well I agree this result will help make Labour electable again but it is ironic that the party most enamoured of gender politics has yet again gone for a man to lead, even with two females in the running. I think the Labour Party is the most "reactionary" party on this point. Strange eh?
#15081584
SolarCross wrote:Well I agree this result will help make Labour electable again but it is ironic that the party most enamoured of gender politics has yet again gone for a man to lead, even with two females in the running. I think the Labour Party is the most "reactionary" party on this point. Strange eh?

He's also white and a knight too. :lol:

Labour is still not suicidal it seems. :up:
#15081618
Beren wrote:He's also white and a knight too.


Not only that, his wife is of Jewish extraction and he has family in Tel Aviv lol.

Says he's a firm Zionist, fears term has been 'weaponized'

Keir Starmer elected UK Labour chief, vows to ‘tear out’ party anti-Semitism
Replacing the highly controversial Jeremy Corbyn, new leader immediately apologizes to Jews for hatred in ranks; his wife comes from a Jewish family, has relatives in Tel Aviv

Britain’s main opposition Labour party on Saturday said that Keir Starmer had been elected as its new leader, replacing Jeremy Corbyn who resigned after its crushing December election defeat.

The 57-year-old former chief state prosecutor won 56.2 percent of the vote of more than 500,000 Labour members, defeating Corbyn loyalist Rebecca Long-Bailey (27.6%) and backbencher Lisa Nandy (16.2%) for the top job. Angela Rayner becomes the new deputy leader.
“Congratulations to @Keir_Starmer, the new Leader of the Labour Party!” the party announced on Twitter after a three-month leadership campaign.

Starmer takes the helm of a defeated and divided party in the midst of the coronavirus crisis.

In his victory speech, Starmer acknowledged the party had “a mountain to climb” after four straight general election defeats. But he vowed: “We will climb it.”

He called it “the honor and privilege” of his life to be elected and vowed to “engage constructively” with Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government, particularly in the fight-back against coronavirus.

Jews and anti-Semitism on the agenda

The 57-year-old Starmer apologized to the Jewish community for anti-Semitism in Labour’s ranks, calling it a “stain” and pledging to stamp it out.

“We have to face the future with honesty,” he said. “On behalf of the Labour Party, I am sorry… I have seen the grief that [anti-Semitism] brought to so many Jewish communities.

“I will tear out this poison by its roots and judge success by the return of Jewish members and those who felt that they could no longer support us.”

Starmer has previously said he would take action to eliminate prejudice against Jews in his party “on day one” in order to demonstrate “the difference that new leadership will make on the issue.”

He has also said he would look to fully cooperate with the Equalities and Human Rights Commission’s report into anti-Semitism in the party, which is currently in the works, but that he had no intention of waiting for its results in order to take action

Starmer is a former director of state prosecutions and Labour’s Brexit spokesman.

His wife, Victoria Alexander, comes from a Jewish background and through her he has extended family living in Tel Aviv.

“My wife’s family is Jewish. Her dad is Jewish, their family came over from Poland. The extended family live in Israel,” he told Britain’s Jewish News in February.

He has never been to Israel but “we’re in regular contact with them and we’ve got various visits planned, basically to take our kids for the first time.”

He said he has attended Shabbat dinners with his wife’s relatives on numerous occasions and visited London synagogues to attend family bar mitzvahs and weddings.

During a campaign event organized by the Jewish Labour Movement, other party leadership candidates said they were “Zionists” while Starmer was hesitant.

“I do support Zionism,” he later told Jewish News. “I absolutely support the right of Israel to exist as a homeland. My only concern is that Zionism can mean slightly different things to different people, and… to some extent it has been weaponized. I wouldn’t read too much into that. I said it loud and clear — and meant it — that I support Zionism without qualification.”

He also told the Jewish Chronicle: “If the definition of ‘Zionist’ is someone who believes in the state of Israel, in that sense I’m a Zionist.”

Still, it was particularly his personal ties to Judaism that brought Starmer under criticism by some for failing to do enough against anti-Semitism while serving in Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet. Some even accused him of seeking to hide his connection to Judaism while the issue was contentious within Labour.

The Daily Mail on Saturday published comments reportedly made by the late London Rabbi Dr. David Goldberg, who died last year of cancer. A friend of Goldberg said the rabbi had told him he was “very disappointed with Keir Starmer.

“Particularly as his wife and children are members of my synagogue. It’s their community which is under threat and yet he’s done so little. It’s pathetic,” Goldberg’s friend quoted him as saying.
Healing a divided party

The announcement of Starmer’s election was a low-key affair, with a planned special conference cancelled due to restrictions on social gatherings imposed to stem the spread of COVID-19.

Instead, the result was put out in a press release mid-morning — and candidates were asked to pre-record their victory speeches.

Smart and studious, but accused of lacking charisma, Starmer has vowed to get the party back in shape after December’s general election, when it suffered its worst result since the 1930s.

Conservative Prime Minister Johnson triumphed by winning parliamentary seats in Labour’s former industrial heartlands.

It was Corbyn’s second election defeat — the fourth for Labour since it left office in 2010 — and he was forced to resign.

Starmer has now promised to unite the party after years of bitter arguments about Corbyn’s socialist agenda, Brexit and the leadership’s handling of claims of anti-Semitism.

“We get the chance to rebuild our party and our movement and, more importantly than that, the chance to put Labour where it needs to be back, which is back in power,” Starmer had told supporters on a video conference call on Thursday.

Starmer says he is a socialist driven by the desire to reduce inequality, but his pragmatic approach has attracted support from centrists in the party — and suspicions on the left.
Anti-Semitism under Corbyn

Accusations of anti-Semitism within party ranks plagued Labour under Corbyn’s leadership, and are seen as a significant factor in its crushing defeat in December’s elections.

British Jews deserted the party in droves because they believed that Labour had become institutionally anti-Semitic under Corbyn, a pro-Palestinian politician who was elected to lead the party in 2015, with widespread accusations that Corbyn himself was an anti-Semite — something he denied.

Corbyn was accused of failing to deal with hundreds of incidents of anti-Semitism within his party. A number of former party officials accused him and his allies of interfering in efforts to address the issue, in a BBC program aired this summer.

Corbyn has come under prolonged attack — including from within the party — for allegedly allowing anti-Semitism to spread in the party and for initially refusing to adopt fully the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) definition of anti-Semitism in Labour’s new code of conduct.

Much of the fear of Corbyn was spurred by revelations about his past record that emerged after he became Labour leader. These included him describing Hamas and Hezbollah as “friends”; defending an anti-Semitic mural in East London; and a seeming willingness to associate with alleged anti-Semites, terrorists and Holocaust-deniers.
‘Bad blood and mistrust’

Labour grew out of the trade union movement but moved to the political center under former prime minister Tony Blair, who was in office between 1997 and 2007.

Corbyn had spent a lifetime on the sidelines because of his left-wing views, and his election as leader, on the back of a huge surge in party membership, was a shock.

MPs and party members have been locked in an ideological battle ever since.

“There’s really a lot of bad blood and mistrust,” said Steven Fielding, a political expert at the University of Nottingham. “The first challenge [of the new leader] will be to put a team together that at least looks like it has the ability to unify the party.”

Winning back voters who defected to the Conservatives is also top of the list if Labour has any hope of victory at the next election, currently scheduled for 2024.

Brexit was a toxic issue for the party, torn between euroskeptic supporters in many northern English towns and pro-EU voters in the big cities such as London.

Starmer was opposed to Brexit and played a key role in moving Labour to support a second referendum on leaving the European Union.

However, voters were not convinced and Johnson took Britain out of the bloc on January 31.
Coronavirus challenge

The coronavirus outbreak has brought a more immediate challenge.

Johnson’s government has imposed draconian curbs on public movement to try to stop the spread — measures backed by Labour, although it successfully pressed for more parliamentary scrutiny of new police powers.

The Conservatives have also promised eye-watering sums to keep businesses and individuals afloat, wading into traditional Labour territory.

In response, Johnson’s popularity ratings have shot up.

A YouGov survey last week found that 55 percent of the public had a favorable opinion of him, up from 43% a week earlier.

Some 72% thought the government was doing well — including a majority of Labour voters.

Ministers have been on the back foot in recent days, however, over the lack of testing for coronavirus and inadequate protection equipment for healthcare staff.

Labour has been pressing the issues, and Starmer said this would continue.

“My instinct will be to be constructive but to ask the difficult questions,” he told the Guardian podcast this week.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/keir-star ... -semitism/

At least he is not going to lay wreaths on the graves of the 1970 Munich terrorists, nor is he going to call Hezbollah and Hamas "his friends".
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