Too Many White People - Page 12 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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By anasawad
#15069551
@Pants-of-dog
Again, poverty is caused by many things. Racism is one of those things. And not all poor people are poor because of racism.

Racism causing poverty is a too minor of a factor due to the many policies limiting discrimination and enacting affirmative action. As such, claiming that poverty in black communities is caused by racism is an explanation that ignores the scope and the various factors affecting it; As such, it is not a factor that is worthy of taking into account since at best it would account for minor individual cases that can be counted in great ease.

As such, no, your premise and narrative are wrong.

If not, you must then be arguing that racism is not one of the causes of poverty for black, Latino, and indigenous people.

I am arguing that, because all these groups are minorities, all while a majority of the population is poor.
If we considered that each every single minority member is poor, we'll be short on filling the overall poverty count.
If racism is the cause, or even one of the main driving causes, then the number of poor people would be far less in the US.

Quote the evidence that supports your claim.

Already did.
Half of Americans are poor.
#15069552
@anasawad

No, you did not quote the evidence that supports your claims.

Instead, you paraphrased.

Half of US people are poor.

That does not contradict the claim that racism was one of the causes of poverty for some of them.
By anasawad
#15069553
@Pants-of-dog
The poverty threshold is still based on a formula from the 1960s, when food expenses were a much greater part of the family budget. It hasn't kept up with other major expenses. Since 1980, food costs have gone up by 100%, housing 250%, health care 500%, and college tuition 1,000%.

The Congressional Research Service (CRS) says, "If the same basic methodology developed in the early 1960s was applied today, the poverty thresholds would be over three times higher than the current thresholds." Three times higher!

The median household income in the U.S. in 2016 was $59,039. The Economic Policy Institute's 2015 Family Budget Calculator determined that the median budget for a two-parent, two-child family is $63,741. As CRS concluded, that's about three times higher than the current poverty threshold.

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2017 ... -evidence#

That does not contradict the claim that racism was one of the causes of poverty for some of them.

It does actually, because if racism was a driving factor, then poverty wouldn't be so widespread.
A more reasonable view is that it's not racism but rather a mixture of factors, which I stated some of them, combining together to cause poverty.
And considering that there are laws in place being enforced to stop racial discrimination and that there are affirmative action laws pushing racial minorities up the ladder, then it's only logical to conclude that race is not the cause of their poverty since if it was, then these laws should've reduced the poverty rate.

What I'm saying is, essentially, a policy based on your line of reasoning is already enforced and has been enforced for decades now, yet it failed miserably because it's not addressing the actual causes. Your narrative, essentially, hit a wall.
#15069556
@anasawad

No. Again, since poverty has many causes, a simple percentage of 50+ does nit mean that racism was not one of the causes.
By late
#15069557
Not sure reality is going to have an effect, but there are a ton of economic studies linking racism against Blacks and poverty.

You know, science?
By anasawad
#15069559
@Pants-of-dog
The fact that it's 50% means that it's not limited to minorities or minority communities, which means the causes goes far far beyond racism.
And the further fact that anti-discrimination laws and affirmative action laws have been in effect for decades now with no results further proves that racism isn't even in the top 50 causes, or even 100.

@late
Like the ones cited so far?

All these race-obsessed studies have gone out, led policies, kept pushing this false narrative for decades now, and the problems haven't been solved, rather got even worse.
It's almost as if racism isn't the cause, but rather a wider array of factors that are causing poverty in the US in general.
If you know anything about science, you'd know it's insanity to keep trying the same exact thing for decades while failing every single time.

Heck, one of the main reasons why much of the remaining middle-class jobs are being swept up by immigrants is because education in the US is crumbling, and it's been falling apart since the Clinton era, resulting in an uncompetitive new generation.
Whenever conservatives take over, they have no interest in solving these problems.
And when Liberals take over, they spend 200 billion hours screaming about racism, enact policies based on these bullshit narratives, let the problem get worse, and then leave office with everything shittier.

Rense and repeat again and again.
And some are still wondering why the empire is falling apart.
By Sivad
#15069562
Donna wrote:Classy response.


I'm a class act.
By Sivad
#15069564
Rancid wrote:Didn't you say Donna is not worth your time? Why do you keep responding to Donna then?


the heart wants what it wants, Rancid.
By Sivad
#15069565
late wrote:Not sure reality is going to have an effect


it's not.
By Rich
#15069566
Donna wrote:lol what is wrong with white Americans. At Bernie Sanders' Colorado rally on Sunday a brawl broke out because a black guy was wearing a "Black Guns Matter" shirt and a fragile piss-baby took issue with it. You are the most advantaged demographic on the planet but it's never enough.

You see how these hideous hateful lies are just thrown out against White people. What about Qataris, they are a far more privileged group than White people. Or if you want to look inside the United States, Asian Indians and East Asians are far more privileged than White people. And that's before we start to break out people of Jewish descent into a separate identity group.

People of White Protestant decent are victims of the most horrendous bigotry and prejudice in modern America. If you don't believe me just look at the composition of the supreme court.
#15069567
@anasawad

anasawad wrote:@Pants-of-dog
The fact that it's 50% means that it's not limited to minorities or minority communities, which means the causes goes far far beyond racism.


Sure.

As I said, poverty has many causes.

And the further fact that anti-discrimination laws and affirmative action laws have been in effect for decades now with no results further proves that racism isn't even in the top 50 causes, or even 100.


You actually have no idea if affirmative action laws have had no results.

Even if that were true, it would still not disprove the argument that poverty among POC is partly caused by racism. For example, affirmative action laws would have little effect if people were too racist to follow them.
By anasawad
#15069568
@Pants-of-dog
You actually have no idea if affirmative action laws have had no results.

Poverty is clearly getting worse and spreading further.
Clearly it's not working.

Even if that were true, it would still not disprove the argument that poverty among POC is partly caused by racism.

Then you'd have to provide causal relationship not correlative relationship to prove that racism is atleast a main cause alongside the other factors.
So far, all those "studies" linking poverty to racism show the numbers for black communities, ignore the overall numbers for the entire country, and claim it's racism, when in reality other factors explain and do have a direct causal relationship with poverty while racism doesn't show any causal relationship.

Showing me that there is this county in an already poor state is not evidence that somehow racism is guiding poverty, since that county in Georgia, though majority black and majority poor, is surrounded by majority white and majority poor communities in one of the poorest states.
That means that there is no causal relationship with racism here. The same can be said for the others.


For example, affirmative action laws would have little effect if people were too racist to follow them.

Except if the people were too racist to follow them, then they wouldn't have voted for the people who promoted them to begin with.
And people can sue companies that discriminate against them in the US.

The only explanation for how could racism be playing a role in the poverty of black communities in the US, based on my following of BLM and the many many instances similar to the OP in university campuses, is that a notable portion of black communities have effectively been brainwashed into an anti-white ideology that results in them self isolating, as we can see in the many examples of black students wanting segregation back in universities.
Noting that the same effects can be seen here in Al-Dahieh in Beirut, and can be seen in many areas the poles in Belarus, and with the Palestinians in Amman in the Baq'a camp, and even with the Syrians.
And this self-segregation for communities is indeed a reason for poverty, which does seem to happen in many black communities in the US.
By anasawad
#15069569
@Pants-of-dog
ADD:
On the topic of segregation, it's actually more wide spread than it first appears in the US.

It's logically expected for black people to have formed an identity around their race as their ancestors have effectively been stripped of their national identities when they were brought into the US.

This identity was challenged by MLK and his likes, both from within and without, but it seems many people have reverted back to it.

We can actually see similar self-segregation in white communities, but it's not based on race rather religious and ideological groups segregate themselves to a certain extent, primarily because when Europeans arrived in the US, they came with all their baggage of national and religious identities that persisted long after.



If racism has any effect on black communities, then this self-inflicted segregation would be at the heart of it.
Considering that there are laws banning and punishing discrimination, then economic discrimination has its effects limited to an individual basis and can not harm an entire community.
#15069570
@anasawad

I am not interested in going down the rabbit hole of your unsupported assertions.

This is why I always ask for evidence.
By anasawad
#15069571
@Pants-of-dog
The geographic spread is a factor that is mentioned by one of the articles you posted actually.

Did you not read them before you post them?
By Rich
#15069576
The relative socio economic position of Blacks in the united States today has nothing, I repeat nothing to do with anti Black racism by contemporary Whites and a lot less to do with Jim Crow period racism than is commonly imagined. The relative success or failure of different ethnic / identity groups is overwhelming due to their culture. Prejudice against minority groups far from having to be a disadvantage to social advancement can be a great spur, encouraging minority in group loyalty, handwork and reducing compassion for out group members allowing them to ruthlessly exploit the majority ethnicity.

Do you think Mormons didn't receive discrimination and enmity, or Jews or even Germans in the early days of the United States? Yet they all outperformed the majority in group. Do you think the ethnic Chinese in Vietnam were not victims of prejudice, even before the Vietnamese Communists took over and threw them all into the sea.

People seem to be upset that Black people came to America as slaves. Well how else were they going to get here in any numbers? Its less than 3000 kilometres from Brazil to West Africa, far easier to reach for Africans than it was via the North Atlantic for Europeans. Europeans didn't stop Africans from discovering America, from settling it. It was Old World deceases that genocided American Indians not muskets. Not that Europeans stopped Africans inventing muskets either.

Learn the truth that the Jewish scriptures, the Old Testament teach us. Without resource limits pre modern humans can easily double their population in a generation. In three generations that's a factor of 8. At 30 years a generation that's a factor of 10 (just over) in a hundred years. A factor of a hundred in 200 years and a factor of thousand in 300 years. A factor of ten billion in a millennium. Pretty quickly resource limits are reached and genocide is required for further expansion. Anyway 15th century America offered huge opportunities for population expansion, just not available in the old world.

Was the Trans Atlantic slave trade the best way to get to America? Of course not. But the fact remains that despite the high death rates of the Transatlantic crossing, enslaved Blacks had a lot better reproductive chances than those that remained in Africa and far better than those that went imported into Arab Muslim countries. To a large degree America's Black population owes both its existence and its relative prosperity compared with sub Saharan Africans to slavery. Obviously once the transatlantic slave trade stopped the sooner slavery ended for American Blacks the better. Obviously its sad that in 1833, The United States slave population was no long under the benevolent rule of the United Kingdom. But overall it is undeaniable that overall the united States slaves contemporary descendants have benefited hugely compared to the descendants of those Africans in an alternative time line where there was no slavery in the Thirteen Colonies.
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