Dissent in a time of Covid - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15078400
The witch-hunting of those who criticise the response to coronavirus is chilling – and dangerous.

Two nasty ailments have gripped Britain in recent days. The first is Covid-19. The second is intolerance of dissent. The authoritarian instincts of the chattering classes have been on full display in this crisis. You can see it in their daily pleas for Boris Johnson to turn the UK into a police state. You can see it in their sneering at people who visit parks or take a walk on a beachfront. And you can see it most disturbingly in their implacable rage against anyone who deviates from the Covid-19 script and asks if shutting down society really is the right thing to do. Like medieval scolds, they brand such people dangerous, insane, a virus, accessories to manslaughter. ‘Shut them down!’, they cry, thinking they are signalling their concern for the public’s health when really they are advertising their profound contempt for freedom of thought and critical debate.

In an emergency, freedom of speech doesn’t stop being important. It becomes more important. The vast majority of people accept there will be restrictions on their everyday freedoms in the next few months. They know they won’t be able to socialise very much and will have to stay indoors for long periods of time. We accept this because, in contradiction of the anti-masses hatred coming from the media class at the moment, who are fuming over photographs of what they view as thick, ignorant scum walking in parks, people actually have a strong sense of social solidarity. They are concerned for the health of their friends, families, community and society. They accept restrictions to that end. But even in a moment like this there should be not a single restriction on freedom of speech. The right to dissent from the middle-class apocalypticism enveloping the Covid-19 crisis is the most important liberty right now.

And it’s a liberty under threat. The speed and intensity with which questioning extreme responses to Covid-19 has become tantamount to a speechcrime is alarming. I had a taste of it this weekend, when I found myself in the eye of a storm over a Spectator piece I wrote questioning the wisdom of closing pubs. Peter Hitchens did too, after he wrote a Mail on Sunday piece questioning the Covid shutdown of society. Others who have wondered out loud if the freezing of social and economic life is the right response to this novel new virus have been hounded, shamed, reported to the Silicon Valley authorities. David Lammy calls us insane and dangerous and says our words should be unpublished. Unpersoning will be next. Questioning the lockdown will see you blacklisted from polite society.

How swiftly we become McCarthyites. How naturally intolerance comes to that section of society that thinks it knows best. Partly, of course, this is always its default mode. As we know from the past couple of decades of social shaming, No Platforming and outright state assaults against people who are deemed to hold hateful or wrongthink views, the new elites are not exactly friends of freedom of speech. But the rising tide of Covid-19 censoriousness also suggests that these people think that when things get serious, when society faces a genuine threat, then freedom of speech becomes a negotiable commodity. Words potentially become dangerous. Bad ideas can lead to loss of life. So police speech, shame the dissenters, silence the ‘virus’ of incorrect thought. This is as wrong as it is possible for someone to be. It is precisely moments like this that show why freedom of speech is the most important value in a civilised, democratic society.

Right now, our societies are doing something historically unprecedented. They are asking us to change our lives in ways that would have been unimaginable just a couple of weeks ago. Some European societies have completely shut down. This week the UK will likely introduce a Coronavirus Bill that will give our government extraordinary power over individuals and public space. The right to question this is essential, for two reasons. First, because we should never feel comfortable with restrictions on freedom. Even if we accept them as short-term measures in a mass act of social solidarity to protect life, they should still make us bristle and balk and constantly ask questions: ‘Why is this necessary? When will it end? When will the Coronavirus Bill be repealed?’

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/03/2 ... -of-covid/
User avatar
By Ter
#15078448
If some shmucks openly and brazenly defy the instructions about not spreading the virus then I approve of them being arrested, locked up or if appropriate, beaten to a pulp.
A little common sense and civic polite behaviour will go a long way towards staying safe for everybody (yes, Sivad, even the old people).
:excited:
#15078449
Biosecurity laws are frightening if you actually look into them and let’s not pretend they aren’t open to abuse like Patriot Acts and National Security laws and everything else that is mandated in times of crisis when people are too busy or uniformed to voice dissent.

The article Sivad has posted and the points raised are entirely valid, and only time will tell if this was a grand hoax or a genuine crisis worthy of killing the global economy and martial law..

As it stands I can’t figure it out either way, such is this very finely tuned narrative which keeps my mind treading water daily.

But I will say this, Wuhan, is from my understanding a made up name. nuff said.
#15078451
@ness31 biosecurity laws are very powerful. As I understand it, the German health minister currently had the power to override anyone and law. Hopefully he doesn’t have his heart set on being the next fuhrer.


But I really don’t think this pandemic is a grand hoax. I mean seriously. It is possible that a dirty rotten scoundrel could take advantage of the situation. But you can’t really be suggesting that our political leaders are unprincipled opportunists...wait...
#15078456
I like all the shaming of people who have failed to follow the confused and contradictory advice of the gov't. Like they're supposed to perfectly transition into this new normal and make a better start than BoJo the clown did.
#15078458
AFAIK wrote:I like all the shaming of people who have failed to follow the confused and contradictory advice of the gov't. Like they're supposed to perfectly transition into this new normal and make a better start than BoJo the clown did.



I find your lack of faith disturbing. Guards, put this one in quarantine.
#15078459
The UK measures are going to be reviewed in six months. I doubt they would have been abused but still, they had opposition support because they are not permanent.

Your posts are refreshing Sivad and you do pose some serious questions that shouldn't be dismissed or overlooked. They problem we all have is because testing isn't universal we simply do not know or have accurate information to assess this objectively. I like you think the infection rate is far higher and depending on how high will determine whether what we are doing is correct or not. But my advice to you and everyone else is just follow the advice. Why? Because ultimately the buck falls on the government. If you, me and perhaps a few others are right with our speculation, we have the moral high ground to criticise the government for their action today under economic fallout. Because to put it mildly, the discussions on PoFo today is about saving lives but in a years time it will be economics. And if the figures don't match the sacrifices, it will be the likes of Trump and Johnson who take the heat not users on PoFo.
#15078464
The politicians are fucked whatever they do. Politically, in the UK for example, to save their skins, they need around a 100,000 dead.

Any more, they didn't do enough. Any less and they overreacted and fucked up people's lives.
Last edited by ingliz on 26 Mar 2020 10:51, edited 2 times in total.
#15078467
ingliz wrote:The politicians are fucked whatever they do. Politically, in the UK for example, to save their skins, they need around a 100,000 dead.

Anymore, they didn't do enough. Any less and they overreacted and fucked up people's lives.


That’s awful lol

I feel sorry for all the politicians at the moment. You can see it, every day when they face the cameras. They look that little bit more tired, hair not quite as perfect as it was the day before, they’re working their arses off. Ultimately, they’re going off what the experts are telling them, so if it’s all bullshit, blame your Chief Medical Officers and expect panels..
#15078468
We should all keep in mind the fact that the World Health Organization pulled this same shit back in 2009 when it hyped the H1N1 into a mass panic. That 3.4% mortality rate the WHO keeps flogging is total bunk.
#15078469
What about if it’s an exercise? We probably should have a dry run to just iron out the kinks for when the ‘big one’ hits..
#15078470
ingliz wrote:The politicians are fucked whatever they do. With the partial lockdown, politically, in the UK for example, to save their skins, they need around a 100,000 dead.

Anymore, they didn't do enough. Any less and they overreacted and fucked up people's lives.


Boris should have stayed the course, if he had a spine he'd be looking like the wise and fearless leader right now. Trump's back on the right track, I just hope he can stand up to the fake news onslaught the establishment is throwing at him.
#15078472
B0ycey wrote:If you, me and perhaps a few others are right with our speculation, we have the moral high ground to criticise the government for their action today under economic fallout.



High moral ground? After you have shown consistently a concern only for your money and scant regard for the deaths of the old and the sick. Surely you jest.
#15078473
ingliz wrote:The politicians are fucked whatever they do. Politically, in the UK for example, to save their skins, they need around a 100,000 dead.

Anymore, they didn't do enough. Any less and they overreacted and fucked up people's lives.


Sure. The perils of fence sitting.

The UK government, as seems true with all governments, are trying the balance two policies and ultimately will please neither. Infection rates are still rising and growth is still shrinking. It is all or nothing not these piddly half measures. And like politics in general, the side you pick will be the side that supports you and you should pick the biggest side. And if that is health, it is just best to be honest about the economic fallout and if you chose economics, be honest about death rates. Today I hear "V" shaped growth figures and a significant reduction in infection rates. Well that hasn't happened in Italy and their lockdown is a few weeks old now. How long are governments planning on us being lockdown anyways? And more importantly what do they think will happen when the lockdown is loosened if the virus is still lingering without a vaccine? What is the objective? Because ultimately from where I am sitting a firm position on this is more commonly found on PoFo than in governments around the world.

But whilst the Clown Johnson is in power, I'll let him take the reins. The antibody tests are round the corner and hopefully some useful data for once will come from that. Then I will criticize accordingly. In the mean time we in the UK should at least listen to him for the uncertainty is true for both sides but the responsibility falls on government.
#15078474
ness31 wrote:What about if it’s an exercise?


Yeah, that's might be a little optimistic given that we're ruled by a psychopathic corporate entity aka the establishment. The establishment just wants to dominate the public, it doesn't give a fuck about public health.


We probably should have a dry run to just iron out the kinks for when the ‘big one’ hits..


We should probably just take reasonable measures like stockpiling supplies and equipment, building adequate infrastructure, increasing our number of doctors and nurses, bringing the manufacture of pharmaceuticals back to the US, etc. We don't need panic hoaxes and government power grabs , what we need is real preparedness.
#15078475
Yeah, that's might be a little optimistic given that we're ruled by a psychopathic corporate entity aka the establishment. The establishment just wants to dominate the public, it doesn't give a fuck about public health.


What other type of entity would have the gall to pull it off?


We should probably just take reasonable measures like stockpiling supplies and equipment, building adequate infrastructure, increasing our number of doctors and nurses, bringing the manufacture of pharmaceuticals back to the US, etc. We don't need panic hoaxes and government power grabs , what we need is real preparedness.


Yup. And now we know. No excuses for unpreparedness in future.
#15078476
foxdemon wrote:High moral ground? After you have shown consistently a concern only for your money and scant regard for the deaths of the old and the sick. Surely you jest.


Still peddling BS I see Foxdemon. You couldn't quote to support your BS last time could you? My opinion hasn't changed since day one. It is far easier to quarantine the over 65s and those who display symptoms than lockdowning the entire nation. That measure would also have a lessening effect on social, economic and health policies. Although perhaps not as effective as draconian measures for casualty rate, the real question poses that as lockdowns aren't reducing infection rates but slowing them, what is the objective of them? Because if it is to save lives it is a misnomer.
#15078479
ness31 wrote:What other type of entity would have the gall to pull it off?


and they've gone too far to ever turn back. They have to be completely ruthless now because if the public ever really catches on not only to what these fuckers have done to them but what they are in their psychopathic nature, how dangerous and depraved they are, it'll be a bloodbath that makes the Bolshevik revolution look like a minor civil disturbance.




Yup. And now we know. No excuses for unpreparedness in future.


I'm not getting my hopes up on that, I have no doubt that 10 maybe 15 years from now we'll be right back where we are now in the middle of another retarded fucking farce.

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