[Atlantis]

https://twitter.com/TruthAbtChina/status/1243492408437940224

I have seen these reports.

So, Western experts are telling us that Chinese methods of containment won't work in the West because we are less disciplined. That is just another lame excuse. I haven't seen such riotous behavior against the covid containment measures anywhere in the West.

I am just fed up with people thinking that if we don't lockdown we're all dead, when the truth of the matter is lockdown only slows the infection rate and will more likely than not have little effect on percentage of those infected.

The experts are pretty clear. Without containment about 70% of the population will get infected. That means 100 to 200 million deaths.

The experts have warned about a virus with exactly the properties of the SARS-CoV-2 for at least 10 years. Denial will increase the human and economic cost. There is no doubt about that.

[B0ycey]

And I said that we did. We know how dangerous it is to each and every patient.

Really? So how dangerous is it to me?

You know that the virus kills but you cannot know how many. Just like everything. And the risk determines response. Because otherwise the cure may well be worse than the virus. That is why we still drive. Not because we have reduced death rates or safety like you claim but because the social and economic impact of banning cars has a greater effect to eveyones lives then those it saves.

The rest of your response has no relevance to anything I have wrote previously so will ignore.

[Rancid]

The economy is screwed, our health care community is screwed, old folk in homes and retirement communities are screwed, the poor are screwed. The environment is screwed (Trump is using this an excuse to kill most everything good done in the last hundred years).

Trump has screwed this up again and again. The international pandemic programs were largely killed, the teams disbanded. Sure, the bones remain, but look around, they can't run without muscle, sinew and a brain to make it happen...

Do you believe the economy and health system can recover from this?

[B0ycey]

The experts are pretty clear. Without containment about 70% of the population will get infected. That means 100 to 200 million deaths.

Under which model? I respect you Atlantis and I don't want to underplay this, but hypothetically, and I am not saying it's correct, but if the UK was 84% infected, those death figures wouldn't add up.

[Rancid]

West because we are less disciplined.

We are less disciplined. Chinese culture in particular is very hierarchical. My wife is Chinese, when her parents demand something from her that is against her personal interest, they will often justify it by saying "Because we're you parents." And that justification actually works, because of the culture. In the west, that doesn't work.

The Chinese government effectively positions itself as a parent that should be obeyed, and for the most part, people obey. It's part of the reason their system has been so successful, people there are more likely to fall in line. That style of governance works/exploits the underpinning values of the culture.

[Atlantis]

Under which model? I respect you Atlantis and I don't want to underplay this, but hypothetically, and I am not saying it's correct, but if the UK was 84% infected, those death figures wouldn't add up.

I'm talking about global deaths.

[late]

Do you believe the economy and health system can recover from this?

My parents and grandparents lived through the Great Depression and WW2.

Of course we can recover.

But it won't be the same. Trump will have made this a different, and much worse, country than the one Obama handed him. That's what most of the educated thought when he was elected, and we were correct.

[Rancid]

Of course we can recover.

So we're not screwed.

[late]

So we're not screwed.

And if you can hold onto a single blade of grass, and not fall off the planet, you're fine.

Apparently you don't realise how bad WW2 and the Depression were.

Like I said, much worse.

[Rancid]

And if you can hold onto a single blade of grass, and not fall off the planet, you're fine.

Apparently you don't realise how bad WW2 and the Depression were.

Like I said, much worse.

I understand clearly. You're saying we're not screwed because WW2 was much worse, and we survived that.

So why did you say we're screwed, if we're not?

[Zionist Nationalist]

I understand clearly. You're saying we're not screwed because WW2 was much worse, and we survived that.

So why did you say we're screwed, if we're not?

WW2 has made America an empire. it was just bad for the rest of the world

[late]

I understand clearly.

You keep a firm grip on that blade of grass.

[late]

WW2 has made America an empire. it was just bad for the rest of the world

We rebuilt europe and japan with the Marshall Plan.

That was a first.

[late]

It was not really "thought", more like deranged howling.

Not hard to tell when you've got nothing to say.

[Rugoz]

We rebuilt europe and japan with the Marshall Plan.

That was a first.

Eh..economically the MP wasn't that important.

[fokker]

Apocalypse: 1.
the complete final destruction of the world...

The economy is screwed, our health care community is screwed, old folk in homes and retirement communities are screwed, the poor are screwed. The environment is screwed (Trump is using this an excuse to kill most everything good done in the last hundred years).

Trump has screwed this up again and again. The international pandemic programs were largely killed, the teams disbanded. Sure, the bones remain, but look around, they can't run without muscle, sinew and a brain to make it happen...

Western EU didn't need Trump. They screwed it up just like him.

I do not worry about this pandemic. I will follow instructions and keep myself and others safe. In my age group for people in perfect health the chance of dying is very low. Sure, there may be permanent lung damage in case of severe pneumonia, but I can adapt. Money is not the top priority in my world.

We rebuilt europe and japan with the Marshall Plan.

Marshall Plan is a myth. You don't understand it as an American, but I do as we had socialist economy here. Money is a tool to control workforce allocation in capitalist economy, but the same effect can be achieved in other means too, should it fail. Socialist economy made plans, then allocated workforce based on those plans to industries and lastly money was distributed in form of salaries basically just to avoid barter (as it's very inefficient). The same idea can be applied temporarily in capitalist economies should it fail, to reach full employment and restart it. We don't want to live in socialism long term as we know it doesn't work. Economy can be restarted without any Marshall Plan. Some countries will reach very high debt level due to this pandemic and it will have to be resolved somehow for global economy to function.

[SolarCross]

Not hard to tell when you've got nothing to say.

You can always tell a prig, but you can't tell him much.

Which one were you?

[Rancid]

You keep a firm grip on that blade of grass.

I get it, you feel silly when all I did was use your own words against you.

[late]

I get it, you feel silly when all I did was use your own words against you.

It comes down to the definition of screwed.

Hint, not the apocalypse.

[late]

Marshall Plan is a myth.

BS.

Europe was a wreck after WW2. We kept the USSR out as much as we could, spent a couple hundred billion (in todays dollars) restoring order ( which by itself was a nightmare) and restarting their economies.

"The years 1948 to 1952 saw the fastest period of growth in European history. Industrial production increased by 35%. Agricultural production substantially surpassed pre-war levels.[68] The poverty and starvation of the immediate postwar years disappeared, and Western Europe embarked upon an unprecedented two decades of growth that saw standards of living increase dramatically. Additionally, the long-term effect of economic integration raised European income levels substantially, by nearly 20 percent by the mid-1970s.[111] There is some debate among historians over how much this should be credited to the Marshall Plan. Most reject the idea that it alone miraculously revived Europe, as evidence shows that a general recovery was already underway. Most believe that the Marshall Plan sped this recovery, but did not initiate it. Many argue that the structural adjustments that it forced were of great importance. Economic historians J. Bradford DeLong and Barry Eichengreen call it "history's most successful structural adjustment program."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan#Effects_and_legacy