China's Wuhan shuts down transport as global alarm mounts over virus spread - Page 103 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15079495
late wrote:BS.

Europe was a wreck after WW2. We kept the USSR out as much as we could, spent a couple hundred billion (in todays dollars) restoring order ( which by itself was a nightmare) and restarting their economies.


USSR and eastern Europe didn't get it, they suffered much higher damage than west and recovered too. There are more ways to recover an economy. Eventually they started to lag behind in late 1960s as they refused to reform the system (btw they used to laugh at Chinese back then). However this would be only the last option should everything else fail and only temporary one for short period of time to allow capitalism to be restarted.

You as an American can't see all options being available.
#15079498
fokker wrote:
USSR and eastern Europe didn't get it, they suffered much higher damage than west and recovered too. There are more ways to recover an economy. Eventually they started to lag behind in late 1960s as they refused to reform the system (btw they used to laugh at Chinese back then). However this would be only the last option should everything else fail and only temporary one for short period of time to allow capitalism to be restarted.

You as an American can't see all options being available.



Naw, what you are saying is obvious, I even put part of that in my quote.

To go back to the beginning, you said it was a myth.

It was not.
#15079501
Atlantis wrote:
@late, how come it didn't work in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Europe had the industrial, social and political institutions that enabled the economic recovery. I don't want belittle the Marshall plan, but Europe did the hard work and the US benefited most.



I'll see your Iraq and Afghanistan, and raise you with South Korea.

This was one of the most popular topics for decades, why didn't programs like the Marshall Plan work elsewhere.

Things go easier if you look at the British empire. They built roads, schools, and semi-autonomous governments. IOW, they invested a lot of time, money and sweat. We cheaped out.

Something that gets overlooked outside academic histories is how much we did between the end of the war and the beginning of the plan. Sure, they would have recovered, but it would have been a lot tougher if we hadn't been holding the Soviet army at bay, policing, bringing in food, etc.
#15079502
late wrote:Naw, what you are saying is obvious, I even put part of that in my quote.

To go back to the beginning, you said it was a myth.

It was not.


History of eastern Europe disproves your claim and your quote. I will say it again. It suffered much worse damage than western Europe and recovered without Marshal Plan. They didn't need it because totalitarian regimes are better at organization. Workforce is not wasted as some work will be found for it by central authorities. Capitalism can self organize, but in case of a major crisis it can take a lot of time. Hitler also managed to out produce allies easily in early years due to having a plan and better organization.

You claimed originally that you rebuilt Europe with Marshal Plan. That statement is thus clearly false.

Instead of Trump's economic nationalism it will be free trade between developed countries that may be necessary, just like it helped in the case of western Europe (birth of the EU).
#15079520
Dr Karin Mölling is a German virologist, group leader at the Max Planck Institute for Molecular Genetics from 1976 to 1993, Heisenberg Fellow in 1981 and a permanent group leader in 1983. In 1993 she became a full professor and director of the Institute of Medical Virology at the University of Zurich

What she says:

You are now told every morning how many SARS-Corona 2 deaths there are. But they don’t tell you how many people already are infected with influenza this winter and how many deaths it has caused.

This winter, the flu is not severe, but around 80,000 are infected. You don’t get these numbers at all. Something similar occurred two years ago. This is not put into the right context.

[…]

Every week a person dies in Berlin from multi-resistant germs. That adds up to 35,000 a year in Germany. This is not mentioned at all. I believe that we have had situations like this several times and that the measures are now being taken too far.

I am of the opinion that maybe one should not do so much against young people having parties together and infecting each other. We have to build immunity somehow. How can that be possible without contacts? The younger ones handle the infection much better. But we have to protect the elderly, and protect them in a way that can be scrutinized; is it reasonable what we are doing now, to stretch out the epidemic in a way that almost paralyzes the entire world economy?

[…]

The Robert Koch Institute provides the figures. Then you sit there as a listener or spectator: 20 dead again, how terrible! Do you know when I would start to panic? If there are 20,000. Then we get close to what went on completely quietly two years ago.

The 2018 influenza epidemic, with 25,000 deaths, never disconcerted the press. The clinics had to deal with an additional 60,000 patients, which was no problem in the clinics either!

[…]

That is the main fear: the disease is presented as a terrible disease. The disease per se is like the flu in a normal winter. It is even weaker in the first week.

– Interview on Anti-Empire.com, 23rd March 2020
#15079525
foxdemon wrote:You do realise Sivad’s underlying motivation in heading off a vaccination program for COVID-19 is trypanophobia.



wtf is trypanophobia? that doesn't even sound like a real word. Now I have to look it up like an idiot..
#15079530
maybe Im crazy, but I don't find anything sivad says even slightly controversial. I find the pathological hatred of Trump far more disturbing. You know why? WHO THE FUCK PUTS THAT MUCH FAITH IN ANY POLITICIAN?
#15079532
No one, @ness31, on this forum, has a patholigcal hatred of Trump.

That said, we are constantly inundated with bullshit about Trump being such a wonderful person/doing great/other lies, by right-wing reactionaries. The reaction is proportional to the bullshit being peddled.

TDS? What about Trump Infatuation Syndrome?
#15079534
Godstud wrote:No one, @ness31, on this forum, has a patholigcal hatred of Trump.

That said, we are constantly inundated with bullshit about Trump being such a wonderful person/doing great/other lies, by right-wing reactionaries. The reaction is proportional to the bullshit being peddled.



Please believe me, as someone who isn't invested in American politics, this forum is generally pretty anti Trump. Posters start MULTIPLE threads on just how awful he is. Its a bit weird, but hey - each to their own.
#15079539
foxdemon wrote:You do realise Sivad’s underlying motivation in heading off a vaccination program for COVID-19 is trypanophobia.


No it's not. It's a big concern for anyone who hasn't had their mind completely colonized by bullshit and babbittry, for anyone who has managed to mentally survive all the conditioning and indoctrination, for anyone who hasn't been completely dumbed down into an obedient feeble minded dink, but there are a great many troubling aspects of the great global coronavirus farce of 2020 . The economic impact, the media manipulation, the gross politicization, the authoritarian suppression measures, the opportunistic babbittry, are all deeply troubling, but my primary motivation is exposing the ginormous retarded farce that all you people have mindlessly allowed yourselves to be sucked into. This kind of mass idiocy is extremely dangerous and it must be countered with facts and reason or the stupidity will grow to a point that it threatens the future of world civilization.
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