" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 55 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15079670
Julian658 wrote:The left acts as if though Trump manufactured the virus and is maliciously spreading the virus to the world.


No one believes this.

What we believe is that Trump is too stupid, shortsighted, and narcissistic to implement and lead practical solutions to this crisis.

They also belief that if Bernie or Obama were in charge there would be no Corona in America,.


No one believes this either.

If Sanders or Obama (or even Bush) was in charge, the US would have a leader that is not too stupid, shortsighted, and narcissistic to implement and lead practical solutions to this crisis.
#15079703
Drlee wrote:Can you even fucking read @fokker? This from your attached article:

Talking to Trump supporters is like trying to read to a two year old.


Before getting emotional, you could have taken the time to read it. Let me paste it here for you as you obviously didn't read it:

What did New York's governor say?

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo responded by saying that quarantining the state of New York would be "preposterous" and "anti-American".

Then we would be Wuhan, China, and that wouldn't make any sense," he told CNN, adding that this would cause the stock market to crash in a way that would make it impossible for the US economy to "recover for months, if not years".

"You would paralyse the financial sector," he said.

Mr Cuomo also said he would sue nearby Rhode Island if the authorities there continued targeting New Yorkers and threatening to punish them for failing to quarantine.


Trump saw strong resistance so he backed off from quarantine. It's Democrats territory...

Cuomo doesn't care at all about Americans living outside of New York. He doesn't really care about about those living in there either, he just cares about his career and stock market. His statements prove it beyond doubt.
#15079710
late wrote:The virus is everywhere. A quarantine is as useful now as tits in a monastery.


Hotspots need to be isolated to prevent rapid spread of infection to nearby states as people will start to flee. Additional personnel and equipment should be sent to New York to help deal with the crisis there. In Europe you can't travel from Italy elsewhere. Countries that have few cases don't allow inbound travelers. Italy is in bad position also because nobody is willing to help it.

US is a very large country and its states are affected unequally. Some like New York need more strict measures, while life and economy in others could continue with smaller restrictions. One size fits all solution doesn't work well for anybody.

Drlee wrote:The man single handed has killed thousands and perhaps tens of thousands. It is bizarre. What amazes me is that his supporters still can't see that. They read his comments. See with their own eyes that he has been consistently wrong from the beginning and continues to do far too little and they support him more and more.

I believe that a great many people simply are not smart enough to know what they are seeing. If that is NOT the case then the answer is even worse. It is that they do not care.


Too much blame to put on one person's shoulders. EU countries don't have a Trump like figure and yet they failed too. It's a cultural problem - people are not willing to act until it hits them. Americans needed New York to take it more seriously. It demonstrates they can have Italy on their soil as well.

Instead of cooperating, Democrats continue their political games to oust Trump. They don't really care about those people dying that you care about as long as their goal is achieved.

We know what we are seeing. I have university education and get paid quite well. It's a preposterous and arrogant suggestion that Trump supporters are dumb. Since I live in Europe I can see some of the problems the US is facing more clearly. It is not a problem of a single person - Trump, but a problem of partisanship in politics that has been brewing in the US for a very long time.

First Americans need to take it more seriously, they need to be disciplined (not like jimjam jogging and dodging police order), they need to wear face masks, avoid close contact and stop the partisan politics (creating millions of anti trump topics...).
#15079712
Julian658 wrote:Meanwhile Sweden a somewhat SJWish lefty nation decided NOT to close businesses and to act normally other than closing high schools. Daycare and elementary schools are open as well as restaurants. They trust the Swedish people will act honorably by doing minimal social distancing. Unlike Denmark and Norway they still have open borders. Swedes suffer from massive white guilt.


Sweden could still shut down businesses in the future.

A majority of Swedes, 52 percent, support the measures to contain the virus, according to a survey conducted by the newspaper Svenska Dagbladet and published on Tuesday. But 14 percent said that too little consideration was being given to public health in order to benefit the economy.

There is growing concern as Swedes prepare to travel to their country houses and to the ski slopes for Easter, even though the public health agency has asked citizens to reconsider such trips. (Norway announced a “cabin ban” to prevent residents from going to their country homes.)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/worl ... virus.html
#15079721
I hate defending Trump now a days but aren't people forgetting that the Democrats were STILL impeaching Trump while this crisis was developing?

Jan. 21, 2020, 1st confirmed case in the United States, Jan. 30, 2020 WHO declares global health emergency, and the impeachment officially ended on February 5, 2020.

If anything you could make the case that the Democrats played a key role in sabotaging America's coronavirus response.
#15079724
The virus came from China and was released by China. China is responsible for killing people and tanking the world economy. You simply cannot refute that.

Its pretty pathetic what liberals are saying on this thread. They have clearly lost it. Liberal supporters have no real intelligent argument and their leaders .... well they have none. So this what you get. Trump and Republicans are killing people and Liberals supposedly care more. They offer no alternative but just vote for Joe Biden and trust them. Pathetic they arer taking communist Chinas side , they are traitors. . Can't get over the last election? Just stay away from tall bridges in less than a year. :lol:

It's really that simple add this to the massive list of political failures that expose how unethical one must be to support the current crop of liberals.
#15079728
Rancid wrote:Anyone that isn't Trump, whether republican or democrat would do a better job than Trump.


oh come on, dude, you really think Trump is that bad? Look what Obama did in the financial crisis, he made it 10x worse than it needed to be by bailing out the banks and not the people and refusing to prosecute the banksters. All these POTUS fuckers debacle, debacling is in the job description.
#15079737
fokker wrote:Hotspots need to be isolated to prevent rapid spread of infection to nearby states as people will start to flee. Additional personnel and equipment should be sent to New York to help deal with the crisis there. In Europe you can't travel from Italy elsewhere. Countries that have few cases don't allow inbound travelers. Italy is in bad position also because nobody is willing to help it.


People tend to flee when the authorities talk about a quarantine. I would bet folding money that the rumour led to a certain number of people getting out of NY. If those people who fled were infected, this would increase the rate of infection.

Also, if you quarantine the state of NY, you are effectively locking in all the healthy people with the infected, thereby increasing the rate of infection in the hotspot.

Too much blame to put on one person's shoulders. EU countries don't have a Trump like figure and yet they failed too. It's a cultural problem - people are not willing to act until it hits them. Americans needed New York to take it more seriously. It demonstrates they can have Italy on their soil as well.

Instead of cooperating, Democrats continue their political games to oust Trump. They don't really care about those people dying that you care about as long as their goal is achieved.

We know what we are seeing. I have university education and get paid quite well. It's a preposterous and arrogant suggestion that Trump supporters are dumb. Since I live in Europe I can see some of the problems the US is facing more clearly. It is not a problem of a single person - Trump, but a problem of partisanship in politics that has been brewing in the US for a very long time.

First Americans need to take it more seriously, they need to be disciplined (not like jimjam jogging and dodging police order), they need to wear face masks, avoid close contact and stop the partisan politics (creating millions of anti trump topics...).


Sure, other people also need to do their part.

But the fact that people other than Trump have also made mistakes does not excuse Trump’s mistakes.

If, for example, some states have no demand for ventilators and NY does, it would be a good idea for the federal government to reallocate the resources as required.
#15079751
fokker wrote:
Hotspots need to be isolated to prevent rapid spread of infection to nearby states as people will start to flee. Additional personnel and equipment should be sent to New York to help deal with the crisis there. In Europe you can't travel from Italy elsewhere. Countries that have few cases don't allow inbound travelers. Italy is in bad position also because nobody is willing to help it.

US is a very large country and its states are affected unequally. Some like New York need more strict measures, while life and economy in others could continue with smaller restrictions. One size fits all solution doesn't work well for anybody.



Too much blame to put on one person's shoulders. EU countries don't have a Trump like figure and yet they failed too. It's a cultural problem - people are not willing to act until it hits them. Americans needed New York to take it more seriously. It demonstrates they can have Italy on their soil as well.

Instead of cooperating, Democrats continue their political games to oust Trump. They don't really care about those people dying that you care about as long as their goal is achieved.

We know what we are seeing. I have university education and get paid quite well. It's a preposterous and arrogant suggestion that Trump supporters are dumb. Since I live in Europe I can see some of the problems the US is facing more clearly. It is not a problem of a single person - Trump, but a problem of partisanship in politics that has been brewing in the US for a very long time.

First Americans need to take it more seriously, they need to be disciplined (not like jimjam jogging and dodging police order), they need to wear face masks, avoid close contact and stop the partisan politics (creating millions of anti trump topics...).



We have a problem with that. Trump wouldn't do it, of course, but I don't think anyone has done it in a hundred years. In any case, the time to do it was earlier, about a month earlier, when it might have been effective.

Quarantines are harder to do than you'd think.

It's partisanship, and Trump. Both are symptoms of the corruption and racism that are in the soul of the country. Also known as rot.

But about Trump, over a month ago, both the CIA and the CDC told him that this could get bad. The NSC pandemic team started to do their job, and he killed it. A pandemic was starting, and he got rid of the organising organisation needed to fight it. Now he's flopping around without a clue. You've prob heard about the ventilators, he's gone back and forth on that several times, vacillating for maybe a month while the disease inexorably spread. New York has started to hook 2 people up to a ventilator. He doesn't like Democrat states. But Florida, which he likes, has gotten twice what they asked for, with more coming.

He told Pence not to take calls from the states he didn't like. He wants obeisance first.
#15079779
Sivad wrote:
oh come on, dude, you really think Trump is that bad? Look what Obama did in the financial crisis, he made it 10x worse than it needed to be by bailing out the banks and not the people and refusing to prosecute the banksters. All these POTUS fuckers debacle, debacling is in the job description.


It would certainly be a debacle no matter how. However, I'm sure it would be less of one if the POTUS was anyone that isn't Trump.
#15079790
Also, if you quarantine the state of NY, you are effectively locking in all the healthy people with the infected, thereby increasing the rate of infection in the hotspot.


That is not how it is supposed to work. The only time that you would be concerned about increased infection in a quarantine is when you quarantine infected people in the same space as well ones. So you could, for example, quite reasonably stop travel to and from NYC and other hot spots without having any effect on the infection rate within the quarantine area.

If you look at what the Chinese did, they moved ill patients out of the homes of well people and kept them apart. We should probably be doing this too.

We are facing that question right now with regard to congregate housing for homeless stuff. It goes something like this. Suppose you have a congregate housing situation with 50 temporary inhabitants each night. One is presumptive positive for covid. What do you do? You have 50+ people who have presumed to be exposed. How do you quarantine them? If you keep them with the original 50 and only 1 other person is positive, you endanger all 50 of them by quarantining them. OTOH, if you disburse them and 10 are positive or about to be you spread the disease to other congregate shelters, and/ or to everyone these positives encounter. You further exacerbate the problem by loosing eyes on those who might be positive and eventually ought to perhaps be tested.

It really is a bad set of choices. The only solution that offers much chance of being successful for all concerned is to put all 50 of them in a hotel/motel in private rooms. Though they are somewhat hard to monitor in that setting, and this solution is expensive it is the only one that actually makes sense. So they stay in this setting for a MINIMUM of 15-20 days but, since you have closed all of the congregate (group) shelters, they would then either be put on the street (bad solution of course) or you have to keep them in the motel/hotel setting but could theoretically then let those who have completed their quarantine share rooms.

If there is any bright spot in this solution it is this: Hotel occupancy is at very nearly zero. So if we are to use stimulus money to save these businesses you may as well use it to purchase their service rather than just give it to them.
#15079798
Sivad wrote:Really? Even rapey senile Joe Biden?

Yes, the key is, we need a POTUS that basically shuts his mouth and doesn't interfere. They should yield to the experts in this situation. Trump is not capable of taking a back seat on anything, he always wants to be at the center. Just having the basic leadership capacity to know when to step aside is all that's needed here to make a bad situation, a bit better.

For example, I thought Pence was supposed to be running the response efforts, yet we see Trump opening his mouth constantly about what's going on with the response. The guy doesn't know how to properly delegate.

So really, anyone that isn't Trump would likely be able to do that.
#15079802
Rancid wrote:Yes, the key is, we need a POTUS that basically shuts his mouth and doesn't interfere.

Problem: Presidents who shut their mouths and "let the experts take over" end up doing what the sneaky banksters, pentagon and oil companies tell them to do.

Ronald Reagan was the perfect example of this.

And when they're not senile, vapid hustlers, or just plain dumb, they are bribable sex-maniacs. This describes virtually every president in my lifetime.
#15079804
QatzelOk wrote:Problem: Presidents who shut their mouths and "let the experts take over" end up doing what the sneaky banksters, pentagon and oil companies tell them to do.


Ultimately, that's a constant that's always present in every administration. That's just a baseline, so it's besides my point.

The point is, a leader can't be a micromanager.
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