Cuba has proven that capitalism and technology are failures - Page 57 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15080277
About Che spreading revolutionary ideas about popular democracy and social programmes, Patrickov wrote:...technically what he did is no different from other countries actually bombing others. ....

I love your "post-modern" use of the word "technically" which seems to have its own, unique meaning in your sentence.

For you, bombing or sharing ideas about social improvement are the same thing "technically." But this is only true if your definition of "technically" means "trying to win, or trying to influence people to change their way of life."

But that's not what "technically" means in less post-modern dictionaries - the ones that are actually printed.
#15080340
skinster wrote:Solidarity and support for revolutionary struggles is good.


Not everybody suffering from a system agrees or benefits from one particular kind of revolutionary struggle.


skinster wrote:To idiots, yes.


I am not sure about the idiocy of those people, but they have reasons to view Communists as sinister people.

The quote "the only good communist is a dead communist" is not without reason.
#15080346
Patrickov wrote:He's not a tool of Cuban Imperialism.

He's a manifest of pan-Communism.


What do you mean by “pan-Communism”?

Ideologically we can define what is what as we like, but technically what he did is no different from other countries actually bombing others. Revolution export is effectively the same as democracy export. Everyone push whatever they believe, and unfortunately what Guevara advocated was not what I agree with.


This is a false equivalence. The actions of Comandante Guevara were similar in one or two ways to the a tions of western imperialism, but they differ in more ways than they are the same.

The most important difference is how Comandante Guevara supported the goals of the countries he helped liberate, rather than imposing a right wing dictatorship at gunpoint such as western imperialism did.

This was not just a moral difference but was also a strategic one: western imperialism had North American and European money to back their violence. The revolutionaries did not. Their sole source of support was the people whom they were liberating, so they could not afford to antagonize the populace the way the western imperialists could.

This ties into the second major difference: Comandante Guevara was working on an agenda of national liberation, while western imperialism was (and is) working on an agenda of foreign imposition of rule.
#15080353


Patrickov wrote:Not everybody suffering from a system agrees or benefits from one particular kind of revolutionary struggle.


Stop with your post-modernist meaningless lolsense.

I am not sure about the idiocy of those people, but they have reasons to view Communists as sinister people.


It is borne out of ignorance or idiocy. Probably both in your case.

The quote "the only good communist is a dead communist" is not without reason.


I think you're confused with the famous quote from white supremacist Philip Sheridan who said "The only good Indian is a dead Indian".

Anyway stop derailing this thread with nonsense, this is a thread about how great Cuba is.
#15080356
Pants-of-dog wrote:The most important difference is how Comandante Guevara supported the goals of the countries he helped liberate, rather than imposing a right wing dictatorship at gunpoint such as western imperialism did.


I do not believe that shit. Soviet Union, North Korea, China all evolve into some kind of dictatorship comparable to Nazis if not worse. Cuba only looks better because (parts of) the United States (and Mexico?) often look even worse.

Pants-of-dog wrote:This ties into the second major difference: Comandante Guevara was working on an agenda of national liberation, while western imperialism was (and is) working on an agenda of foreign imposition of rule.


I am doubtful of that, although given that he's dead before actually achieving anything it will be overly unfair for me to say anything too conclusive.
#15080405
skinster wrote:Nobody cares about your stupid opinions. :lol:

I have to disagree with you here, skinster. Patrickov's opinions are shared by many people living in rich, Western countries. That he is not ashamed to express them gives other people a golden opportunity to unpack them.

Patrickov wrote:Soviet Union, North Korea, China all evolve into some kind of dictatorship comparable to Nazis if not worse. Cuba only looks better because (parts of) the United States (and Mexico?) often look even worse.

The United States looks a lot worse right now, and it consumes about 20 times the resources per person. Such crap at such a high cost. Even as a shopper, you have to understand that crappy merchandise that costs 20 times more.... can only be sold if you point a gun at shoppers' heads.
#15080408
QatzelOk wrote:After doing research, there was only one country where I was unlikely to get killed by a car or robbed by criminals, and that country is... Cuba. Communist.

All of capitalist Latin America is made up of dangerous shit-holes for singly guys on a bike. In Cuba, there are few cars and fewer crimes.

Capitalism is an abject failure.


Having cars is a good thing.

They don't have cars because:

1. Banned US imports means they drive a lot of cars from before the 1960's

2. Some imports are expensive

3. It's a poor country, even compared to most of Latin America.

They don't have crime because the Castros lead a tight dictatorship. In developing countries often the strength of government and institutions is more important than the openness of them.
#15080410
Patrickov wrote:I do not believe that shit. Soviet Union, North Korea, China all evolve into some kind of dictatorship comparable to Nazis if not worse. Cuba only looks better because (parts of) the United States (and Mexico?) often look even worse.


Then provide an example of Comandante Guevara helping to create a dictatorship.

I am doubtful of that, although given that he's dead before actually achieving anything it will be overly unfair for me to say anything too conclusive.


Then do not look just at his life, but also at the history of each country he fought in, and the movements he supported.
#15080412
Patrickov wrote:I don't agree with that. I won't give up personal liberty just for "apparently better healthcare" (and whether the people in Cuba do get such treatment is doubtful to me). And I am educated enough to keep myself away from catching the virus myself.


Many communists and Cuba lovers don't understand that you can have socialized healthcare and education without completely socializing the entire economy. Often it's because these communists are American and they don't even understand the concept of socialized healthcare and education, whereas every other western country does and has them without turning their country into a shithole dictatorship.
#15080421




Patrickov wrote:Soviet Union, North Korea, China all evolve into some kind of dictatorship comparable to Nazis if not worse.




Unthinking Majority wrote:Many communists and Cuba lovers don't understand that you can have socialized healthcare and education without completely socializing the entire economy. Often it's because these communists are American and they don't even understand the concept of socialized healthcare and education, whereas every other western country does and has them without turning their country into a shithole dictatorship.


Healthcare in the U.K. under the NHS is worse than the same in Cuba. The NHS is pretty much destroyed / privatized.


#15080453
Unthinking Majority wrote:Many communists and Cuba lovers don't understand that you can have socialized healthcare and education without completely socializing the entire economy. Often it's because these communists are American and they don't even understand the concept of socialized healthcare and education, whereas every other western country does and has them without turning their country into a shithole dictatorship.


As far as I can remember, none of the people in this thread who support Cuba are from the USA, though most of Cuba’s critics are.
#15080459
Unthinking Majority wrote:Many communists and Cuba lovers don't understand that you can have socialized healthcare and education without completely socializing the entire economy. Often it's because these communists are American and they don't even understand the concept of socialized healthcare and education, whereas every other western country does and has them without turning their country into a shithole dictatorship.


What we are discovering, especially since COVID-19, is that social medicine and capitalism can no longer co-exist.
#15080469
Unthinking Majority wrote:LOL what in the world are you talking about? Show me evidence.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 1013002303
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