[blackjack21]

We did and we do have responses to pandemics, the president just ignored it because he's a fucking moron who runs his administration the same way he ran all of his prior businesses.

Naturally, this warrants the response that Trump is a very stable genius and did more to bend the curve early compared to any other Western leader, which is why he should be worshipped like Mao Zedong, an Eastern leader.

Viruses naturally mutate through imperfect DNA copying.

So we should be able to predict this or not? Which is it?

This doesn't radically change the virus into something that kills you instantly, but it may make it a new entity that requires a new vaccine.

Doesn't matter. H1N1 is more deadly, but it's not as contagious. That figures back into the calculus that we get to sit and wait and develop a vaccine. We don't this time, and Trump has little to do with it. It's more constructive to admit as a society that we're not as sophisticated as we think we are.

We had SARS and Swine Flu prior to Covid.

Yes, but not all viruses involve French kissing or anal sex.

[Patrickov]

Let's be truthful for once. People in the left despise Trump and they will do anything they can to bring him down. I am no Trump fan------- he is a narcissist and says a lot of BS and lies on the podium. I would rather have Mitt Romney up there. However, anyone can see he is doing his best! But, he will never please the left because of tribalism.

With all due respect, rallying around someone not because he's supportable but out of opposition against his opponents is itself tribalism. I admit myself having that from time to time, but I am aware that applying it at some occasions and in certain forms can be objectionable.

To be precise, if Trump is that bad (a narcissist and says a lot of BS and lies on the podium) then "someone doing anything they can to bring him down" is indeed a justified act.

On the other hand, I want to make conclusions based on what his actions or policies bring. Some ex-presidents who made considerable achievements might have objectionable personalities. FDR, JFK, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were examples that jumped up in my mind.

[SpecialOlympian]

So we should be able to predict this or not? Which is it?

Knowing something has a 1% chance to happen doesn't mean you know when it will happen, only that given a long enough timeline it will happen.

[blackjack21]

Knowing something has a 1% chance to happen doesn't mean you know when it will happen, only that given a long enough timeline it will happen.

Which is to say, "Anything is possible." Who doesn't know that? Donald Trump is President of the United States for fuck sakes? What are the odds of a pandemic happening and Donald Trump being president of the United States at the same time? Same guy who has been warning about China for 20 years... Pphhhewww!

[SpecialOlympian]

Yeah you understand. It's a leftist conspiracy. Go out and lick some doorknobs to own the libs, boomer.

[Rich]

I would rather have Mitt Romney up there.

I'd rather have Hilary up there,than that vile anti Russian hate monger.He's the last thing we need when we we're trying to deal with the Xi virus and the Cultural Marxist enemy within. He's proved himself a totally dishonest traitor. Plus his Mormon candidacy is a stalking horse for Islam.

[Julian658]

I'd rather have Hilary up there,than that vile anti Russian hate monger.He's the last thing we need when we we're trying to deal with the Xi virus and the Cultural Marxist enemy within. He's proved himself a totally dishonest traitor. Plus his Mormon candidacy is a stalking horse for Islam.

I hear you, but I am a centrist Republican.

[Julian658]

With all due respect, rallying around someone not because he's supportable but out of opposition against his opponents is itself tribalism. I admit myself having that from time to time, but I am aware that applying it at some occasions and in certain forms can be objectionable.

To be precise, if Trump is that bad (a narcissist and says a lot of BS and lies on the podium) then "someone doing anything they can to bring him down" is indeed a justified act.

We evolved in tribes so we are ALL tribal. The only difference is that many do not KNOW they are behaving inna tribal manner. And this tribalism basically means my side is 100% correct , the other side is 100% incorrect. Trump may be the most flawed president in history from a personality point of view, but that does not mean he can make the correct decision every once in a while.

On the other hand, I want to make conclusions based on what his actions or policies bring. Some ex-presidents who made considerable achievements might have objectionable personalities. FDR, JFK, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton were examples that jumped up in my mind.

My life never changes in relationship to who is president. I go about my business in the same manner whether a left winger or right winger is in the white house. The extreme left behaves as if Trump is life or death situation to them.

[Patrickov]

Trump may be the most flawed president in history from a personality point of view, but that does not mean he can make the correct decision every once in a while.

I agree.

However, I perceive some anti-Trumpers hold the view that, the frequency of him making right decisions, or the magnitude of his right decisions, or both, be too low to justify him being in the office of POTUS.

This kind of anti-Trumpers are very different from "100% right or 100% wrongers", and are indeed more reasonable. However, many mix them up because both kinds of anti-Trumpers behave similarly -- the former will still emphasise whatever wrong Trump has done.

My life never changes in relationship to who is president. I go about my business in the same manner whether a left winger or right winger is in the white house. The extreme left behaves as if Trump is life or death situation to them.

As far as I know, some Trump supporters also see his presidency as a life-or-death situation, just in the opposite direction. If I remember correctly, Member Hindsite had once said that a Democrat being in the White House would mean endless misery.

[Rancid]

Specific audience... maybe. It's also to point out that some people are only bothered by certain kinds of death--like the death of people they know and love, not people in a jungle somewhere, or some gay drug addicts. Coronavirus doesn't give anyone the comfort of moral superiority, except for hermits and the socially aloof.

I think that most of us on the planet need to adopt the Otto Von Bismarck's approach to life. You have to be pragmatic, principals and ideology have to take a back seat to practical reality many/most of the time. Realpolitik as he called it. That's my point.

If you want the message to ring true for as many people as possible, you'd have to remove the anti-abortion bent from the meme. Otherwise, you lose a large number of people with that practical and reasonable data based message. The message as it is, hampers is mass appeal potential, and thus hurts its ability to go viral (I intended to say viral).

[Zionist Nationalist]

I think that most of us on the planet need to adopt the Otto Von Bismarck's approach to life. You have to be pragmatic, principals and ideology have to take a back seat to practical reality many/most of the time. Realpolitik as he called it. That's my point.

If you want the message to ring true for as many people as possible, you'd have to remove the anti-abortion bent from the meme. Otherwise, you lose a large number of people with that practical and reasonable data based message. The message as it is, hampers is mass appeal potential, and thus hurts its ability to go viral (I intended to say viral).

I agree. abortions should be allowed I dont really get the republican obsession with anti abortion even the non religious Republicans are against it. its counterproductive for two main reasons 1. most abortions are non white 2.in a democratic country you cant force women to give births to unwanted children its their body and they gonna have to raise the child not you

[Julian658]

I agree.

However, I perceive some anti-Trumpers hold the view that, the frequency of him making right decisions, or the magnitude of his right decisions, or both, be too low to justify him being in the office of POTUS.

This kind of anti-Trumpers are very different from "100% right or 100% wrongers", and are indeed more reasonable. However, many mix them up because both kinds of anti-Trumpers behave similarly -- the former will still emphasise whatever wrong Trump has done.




As far as I know, some Trump supporters also see his presidency as a life-or-death situation, just in the opposite direction. If I remember correctly, Member Hindsite had once said that a Democrat being in the White House would mean endless misery.

Any person (left or right) that believes his future is in the hands of whomever becomes president needs to stop and think. I get the idea that Republicans are nicer to those that are in the upper brackets and that the Dems favor those that are poor. However, at the end of the day having a government that caters 100% to the poor would be a disaster of epic proportions a true dystopia.

I like a president that is good at foreign affairs. Domestic issues and the poor are best handled by the local government. BTW, the last thing we need is an SJW type president that is highly concerned about transgenderism or allowing men disguised as women to compete with biological women in sports.

[Pants-of-dog]

@Julian658

Can you mention anything that Trump has done that was intelligent in terms of dealing with Covid-19?

[Rancid]

Any person (left or right) that believes his future is in the hands of whomever becomes president needs to stop and think.

I don't think anyone believes this. What people understand is that the president and his admin can affect their lives greatly though.

[Drlee]

@blackjack21 Coronavirus is a very different pandemic from the Black Death, for example--but not completely unlike the Spanish Influenza. Pandemics are recurring, but their nature isn't due to something else we can postulate: mutation. If they were "completely predictable" as you've suggested, we could in theory have a response to every conceivable pandemic.

We definitely could have a response to the obviously likely pandemics. And Covid-19 is one of the most likely. We have seen it before, twice, in recent years with MERS and SARS. Every student of Public Health runs the Covid (like) scenario until they are blue in the face.

We have known for a long time that we were vulnerable. Obama attempted (too little) to have some shade of preparedness. Trump took it down. He has denied that but it remains true.

There is absolutely no doubt that every epidemiologist in the country has been studying and predicting this very thing for decades. It has always been discussed in terms of "when" not "if". On January 28th (Note that in my anger I wrote "respirators" rather than "ventilators" but it turns out both are true.)::

I

f we have a major outbreak of flu or corona virus we need respirators. (Ventilators) We do not have nearly as many of them as we need on the best of days. Just make a guess at how many the average hospital has. See what I mean. And they are the lifesaver. (With flu we have drugs that can, if given early, make the flu less severe. Nothing like that with CV.)

That was two months ago and from a lowly community health guy in the hinterlands.... and the Trump administration has yet to do nearly enough to produce ventilators in any reasonable number. What if we had started then? How many would we have now? And while we are playing "what if", what if the administration had simply not lied? How many people would be alive today who had sheltered? How many PPR sets would we have? And, since some pea brains can't stop seeing this as an economic problem, how much more considered would the response to the stock market have been if it were not for the obvious lack of leadership and consistent misinformation coming out of Washington.

There is no doubt that when the history of this is written, the federal response will be seen as a disgrace. For the cost of one Aircraft Carrier we could potentially have saved far more lives than we lost in Korea and Vietnam combined.

@blackjack21 What are the odds of a pandemic happening and Donald Trump being president of the United States at the same time? Same guy who has been warning about China for 20 years... Pphhhewww!

Really? You do post for the bottom feeders who would see any sense in this at all. Trump has NEVER warned about a pandemic coming out of China. His ONLY warnings were about economic competitiveness. And all the while negotiating for a piece of the Chinese pie for his family and himself.

@Julian658 wrote:
Trump may be the most flawed president in history from a personality point of view, but that does not mean he can make the correct decision every once in a while.

I too am a lifelong centrist republican. So go with me on this....Do you realize what you just wrote? You called Trump "the most flawed president in history" but then qualified it with "from a personality point of view". And you are OK with that?

Then you said: "that does not mean he can make the correct decision every once in a while."

So that is your measure of an acceptable president? Not mine. I want a president who is smart enough to look around the room and see the vast talent and expertise he has at his disposal, and then use that expertise to do what is right for the American people. This did not happen and it is still not happening. When does a president's personality flaws become such a clear and present danger that he should be removed under the 25th amendment? I guess a quarter of a million deaths is not bad enough so you please enlighten me on what IS bad enough.

None of this horrible result of the federal mismanagement and lack of leadership was unpredictable. The experts told him, in no uncertain terms, that the was inevitable absent draconian measures. He chose to stand in front of the American people and lie. It really is as simple as that.

@Julian658 wrote:
Any person (left or right) that believes his future is in the hands of whomever becomes president needs to stop and think.

And they will draw the inevitable conclusion that to a very great degree it is. Ask any soldier who has died in a brush fire war or intervention. Ask many of those who have and will die of CV because of a lack of leadership and preparedness. (Ask those who die because they do not have a ventilator and the administration and STILL not told the army where to send its spares.

The President changes everyone's life profoundly in good times or bad. To deny this in the service of some notion of "everyone for himself" is folly.

[Julian658]

@Julian658

Can you mention anything that Trump has done that was intelligent in terms of dealing with Covid-19?

POD: You will refute whatever I say. You are playing with a retrospective "what if" mindset. That is like analyzing a Sunday football game on a Monday. In the retroscope everything can be questioned.

This also has to do with the mindset of an SJW which is all doom and gloom or the mindset of a conservative who is optimistic. Trump was positive and remains positive about the Corona pandemic. A left winger like you will think the world is ending. IN any even, Trump could have been more aggressive in demanding social isolation and closing down businesses in January 21 when the first Corona case was detected in Washington State. However, I don't think that measure would have gone down well since the Dems were also downplaying the virus. BTW, watch the mayor of New York city a hard core lefty and how he downplayed the virus a 1000 times more than Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZ0Ruh89f0

[QatzelOk]

They seem to think that letting thousands of people die is a good response to the Coronavirus.

But in our commercial society, this is what "conservative" means.

Our status quo society lets millions die because of car culture, war culture, and greed culture. Letting people die because we don't devote enough resources to public health or social programs fits right into this status quo.

Going extinct because of pollution and climate change will also fit into this version of "conservative."

Also, the Book of Revelations makes our upcoming extinction look "heaven sent," thus feeding our corpses to "conservativism' as interpreted through the lense or our own situated ignorances (defined as 'knowledge' or 'social smarts').

[Pants-of-dog]

POD: You will refute whatever I say. You are playing with a retrospective "what if" mindset. That is like analyzing a Sunday football game on a Monday. In the retroscope everything can be questioned.

No. We are not magically in the future when the crisis is over and we can look back.

The viral outbreak is happening right now.

This also has to do with the mindset of an SJW which is all doom and gloom or the mindset of a conservative who is optimistic. Trump was positive and remains positive about the Corona pandemic. A left winger like you will think the world is ending.

These little insults are irrelevant.

IN any even, Trump could have been more aggressive in demanding social isolation and closing down businesses in January 21 when the first Corona case was detected in Washington State. However, I don't think that measure would have gone down well since the Dems were also downplaying the virus.

I agree that he has mishandled things, but I was asking for an example of an intelligent thing that he did.

Are you unable to think of one?

BTW, watch the mayor of New York city a hard core lefty and how he downplayed the virus a 1000 times more than Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JZ0Ruh89f0

Tu quoque fallacy. Ignored.

[Drlee]

This also has to do with the mindset of an SJW which is all doom and gloom or the mindset of a conservative who is optimistic.

Nonsense

Trump was positive and remains positive about the Corona pandemic.

Yes. Where once he was very publicly positive that we would have very few cases he is now "positive" that we may have a quarter of a million. Get a fucking grip dude. You are making a fool of yourself.

However, I don't think that measure would have gone down well since the Dems were also downplaying the virus.

Bullshit. Source?

I am glad Trump has you to make lame excuses for him. Take a step left on the bell curve.

[Julian658]

:eh: Nonsense


Yes. Where once he was very publicly positive that we would have very few cases he is now "positive" that we may have a quarter of a million. Get a fucking grip dude. You are making a fool of yourself.



Bullshit. Source?

I am glad Trump has you to make lame excuses for him. Take a step left on the bell curve.

You always claim to be a Republican but you generally post the typical rabid insulting remarks of an SJW. Furthermore, you are as tribal and narrow minded as folks in the extreme left. You are not a centrist dude!

You think Trump should have closed the country on Jan 21, 2020 when the first case was diagnosed in Washington? Yes or no?