" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 66 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15081028
Pants-of-dog wrote:No. We are not magically in the future when the crisis is over and we can look back.

The viral outbreak is happening right now.



These little insults are irrelevant.



I agree that he has mishandled things, but I was asking for an example of an intelligent thing that he did.

Are you unable to think of one?



Tu quoque fallacy. Ignored.


A president is no expert in epidemics. At best he can only do what his advisors suggest. Did Dr. Faucci suggest to close down the USA in Jan 21? What was the recommendation of the CDC in January 21, 2020?

Why are you insulted when I say you are on the extreme left? Are you moving to the center?
#15081044
Julian658 wrote:A president is no expert in epidemics. At best he can only do what his advisors suggest. Did Dr. Faucci suggest to close down the USA in Jan 21? What was the recommendation of the CDC in January 21, 2020?


I do not know what either of these said on the 21st of January.

What did they say or not say?

More specifically, when did they first say that the USA should act? What exactly did they say that Trump should do? And when did Trump do it?

Why are you insulted when I say you are on the extreme left? Are you moving to the center?


You seem to be confused. You tried to insult me. I never said I actually felt insulted. You were unsuccessful. And this is also irrelevant.
#15081052
In January, both the CIA and CDC warned Trump that a pandemic was coming.

He ignored them.

When Beth, the head of the NSC pandemic team, gave a speech about it (which is part of her job), he got rid of her, and killed the team.

It was a hoax, after all. It'll be gone by April.
#15081069
Pants-of-dog wrote:I do not know what either of these said on the 21st of January.

What did they say or not say?

More specifically, when did they first say that the USA should act? What exactly did they say that Trump should do? And when did Trump do it?


It seems you know nothing about the USA. So why are you putting down the USA response to Corona? You do not have any information about what it was like in January 2020 in America. I give you credit for admitting that. However, I suggest you do not post on the subject if you do not know what is going on.

Here is what the CDC published after the first Corona patient was diagnosed in a Chinese migrant in Washington state in Jan 21, 2020.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020 ... -case.html


A few days later travel restriction from China was in place. You put down this decision because it did not take care of illegals. Are you still holding that position.
#15081072
Julian658 wrote:
If you provide the evidence we have a winner!



"U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat..."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

"Top health officials first learned of the virus’s spread in China on January 3, US Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said Friday."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/21/21189179/coronavirus-trump-intelligence-reports-warned-pandemic
#15081073
If you provide the evidence we have a winner!


OK.

A source familiar told CNN that the congressional intelligence committees were briefed on the threat coronavirus posed in January and February.
The intelligence reports did not predict when the virus might hit the US or recommend steps that should be taken in response, the source said. The reports tracked the spread of the virus in China and then other countries, and warned that Chinese officials were minimizing the impact.
Within the administration, Trump's aides tried in vain to convince him of the virus's seriousness, according to the Post. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar was unable to discuss the virus with Trump until January 18, two senior administration officials told the Post -- at which point the President interrupted him to ask when sales of flavored vaping products would resume, senior administration officials told the paper.
Later in January, aides met with then-acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney in an effort to convince higher level officials to monitor the virus -- with White House Domestic Policy Council Director Joe Grogan asserting that if the White House did not seriously address the virus, an issue likely to be front and center for months, Trump could risk losing his reelection, people briefed on the meeting told the Post.
Mulvaney subsequently held regular meetings, though officials told the paper that Trump did not take the virus seriously because he did not think it had circulated extensively in the United States.
The President also seemed to deny the virus's threat in favor of believing information provided by Chinese President Xi Jinping, the paper reported.

Administration officials told the Post that even after some of his advisers insisted that China was providing inaccurate data on infection and death rates from the disease, Trump publicly praised China's handling of the coronavirus in late January. In a February meeting, Trump argued that if he put more pressure on Xi, Beijing would be less likely to share how it was handling the outbreak.
Even when cases reached the US, Trump opposed characterizing the virus as a serious threat, the paper reported. Two senior administration officials told the paper that while returning from India, Trump complained that senior Centers for Disease Control and Prevention official Nancy Messonnier was frightening investors with her assessment in late February that changes to normal life could be "severe" in light of serious spread.


Before you make an ass of ourself @Julian658 this story was carried on Fox News too.
#15081075
late wrote:"U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat..."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

"Top health officials first learned of the virus’s spread in China on January 3, US Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said Friday."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/21/21189179/coronavirus-trump-intelligence-reports-warned-pandemic


Back then everybody underestimated it and thought it would be just like SARS 1 which didn't do much damage and was contained without major spread. It looked like China just mismanaged the containment of the virus but got back on track later. He did issue travel ban from China and Europe, both were thought to be sufficient. SARS 2 proved to be much more contagious than expected - a perfect virus for humans.

It's pointless to keep blaming Trump over it we need to handle the crisis and not continue the blame game.
#15081077
fokker wrote:
Back then everybody underestimated it and thought it would be just like SARS 1 which didn't do much damage and was contained without major spread.
It looked like China just mismanaged the containment of the virus but got back on track later. He did issue travel ban from China and Europe, both were thought to be sufficient. SARS 2 proved to be much more contagious than expected - a perfect virus for humans.

It's pointless to keep blaming Trump over it we need to handle the crisis and not continue the blame game.



It's not pointless because he's still screwing up, and lying about screwing up.

The travel ban to China had more loopholes than swiss cheese. The European ban came too late, and didn't include the UK.

Which illustrates the problem, he can't understand and winds up going back and forth and back and forth.

Trump had access to the best information. He refused to discuss it with Azar. He wanted to talk about vaping.

Trump does that sort of thing all time, including the constant lying. There is NOTHING unusual here, only that it will cost a lot of lives.
#15081081
late wrote:It's not pointless because he's still screwing up, and lying about screwing up.

The travel ban to China had more loopholes than swiss cheese. The European ban came too late, and didn't include the UK.

Which illustrates the problem, he can't understand and winds up going back and forth and back and forth.

Trump had access to the best information. He refused to discuss it with Azar. He wanted to talk about vaping.

Trump does that sort of thing all time, including the constant lying. There is NOTHING unusual here, only that it will cost a lot of lives.


No country managed to fully contain it, China, South Korea, Japan are just keeping it under the lid. So we can't really be surprised Trump didn't succeed either. Hillary Clinton would have failed too, maybe the number of infected would be somewhat lower, but still rising.

In Italy, Spain and now soon the UK too nobody is talking about having the government removed for failure to deal with the pandemic. You need to come to terms with Trump being the US president now, you need to put aside your hate for him and cooperate.
#15081083
Image

Covid-19 — Navigating the Uncharted

Anthony S. Fauci, M.D., H. Clifford Lane, M.D., and Robert R. Redfield, M.D.

In their Journal article, Li and colleagues3 provide a detailed clinical and epidemiologic description of the first 425 cases reported in the epicenter of the outbreak: the city of Wuhan in Hubei province, China. Although this information is critical in informing the appropriate response to this outbreak, as the authors point out, the study faces the limitation associated with reporting in real time the evolution of an emerging pathogen in its earliest stages. Nonetheless, a degree of clarity is emerging from this report. The median age of the patients was 59 years, with higher morbidity and mortality among the elderly and among those with coexisting conditions (similar to the situation with influenza); 56% of the patients were male. Of note, there were no cases in children younger than 15 years of age. Either children are less likely to become infected, which would have important epidemiologic implications, or their symptoms were so mild that their infection escaped detection, which has implications for the size of the denominator of total community infections.

On the basis of a case definition requiring a diagnosis of pneumonia, the currently reported case fatality rate is approximately 2%.4 In another article in the Journal, Guan et al.5 report mortality of 1.4% among 1099 patients with laboratory-confirmed Covid-19; these patients had a wide spectrum of disease severity. If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.2


Fauchi was originally saying that "it's just the flu bro," and that is probably why Trump and a lot of others said the same thing.

Then Fauchi turned batshit crazy fear monger doom porn merchant and started saying that hundreds of thousands of people were going to die. Then Trump and almost most everyone into this psychotic coronavirus death cult.
#15081089
Drlee wrote:OK.



Before you make an ass of ourself @Julian658 this story was carried on Fox News too.


You continue to post like an SJW, not exactly like a gentleman, OK, no big deal. I will give you credit for providing a reference.

If you were the president back in early January. Would you have closed the borders, the schools, order social isolation, and immediately test the population?
#15081092
fokker wrote:
No country managed to fully contain it, China, South Korea, Japan are just keeping it under the lid. So we can't really be surprised Trump didn't succeed either. Hillary Clinton would have failed too, maybe the number of infected would be somewhat lower, but still rising.



So not the point.

Trump blew it off for over a month. His comments increased the risk.

Neither Obama, Bush2 or Clinton ignored their medical experts the way he did, much less getting rid of them.

This astonishing level of incompetence is going to get many thousands of Americans very, very dead. People that would not have died if we got going a month earlier.

Which any half assed president would have done.
#15081097
Julian658 wrote:You always claim to be a Republican but you generally post the typical rabid insulting remarks of an SJW. Furthermore, you are as tribal and narrow minded as folks in the extreme left. You are not a centrist dude!

You think Trump should have closed the country on Jan 21, 2020 when the first case was diagnosed in Washington? Yes or no?


At a time when our country wants unison and cooperation among all Americans, the left can't seem to understand this simple concept. I suspect there inability to read the political landscape is going to come back to haunt them.
#15081104
late wrote:It's not pointless because he's still screwing up, and lying about screwing up.

The travel ban to China had more loopholes than swiss cheese. The European ban came too late, and didn't include the UK.

Which illustrates the problem, he can't understand and winds up going back and forth and back and forth.

Trump had access to the best information. He refused to discuss it with Azar. He wanted to talk about vaping.

Trump does that sort of thing all time, including the constant lying. There is NOTHING unusual here, only that it will cost a lot of lives.


The only nations that have done well are Asian. In fact, I traveled in January and saw MANY Asians with masks in the airports. It seems they are more disciplined and have become more inclined to take precautions. Meanwhile Europe and the USA have not done well.
#15081117
Julian658 wrote:It seems you know nothing about the USA. So why are you putting down the USA response to Corona? You do not have any information about what it was like in January 2020 in America. I give you credit for admitting that. However, I suggest you do not post on the subject if you do not know what is going on.


You like these little passive aggressive insults.

Here is what the CDC published after the first Corona patient was diagnosed in a Chinese migrant in Washington state in Jan 21, 2020.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020 ... -case.html

A few days later travel restriction from China was in place. You put down this decision because it did not take care of illegals. Are you still holding that position.


Quote the relevant text.
#15081126
late wrote:Neither Obama, Bush2 or Clinton ignored their medical experts the way he did, much less getting rid of them.

1000 Americans died before Obama declared an emergency. It's a pointless exercise to try to get people to dislike Trump for this. I have already pointed out that he won principally because of illegal immigration and trade with China. America's opinion on that hasn't changed.
#15081127
Pants-of-dog wrote:You like these little passive aggressive insults.


POD: Show that you know what is going on in America. You live in another country and make statements that are based on assumptions. You are posting as a pragmatist socialist, I get that. The end justifies the means.
#15081135
Julian658 wrote:You live in another country and make statements that are based on assumptions.
Trying to end an argument based on something completely irrelevant. Why do right-wingers(and yes you are very right-wing) Trump supporters(which you clearly are) always end up trying to use this tactic that is clearly dishonest? Pants-of-dog has the same access to information that you do, and he's refuted your argument, quite clearly, with Drlee posting in response, as well.

U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat..."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

"Top health officials first learned of the virus’s spread in China on January 3, US Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said Friday."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... d-pandemic

Trump didn't drop the ball. He never even attempted to catch it.
#15081142
Godstud wrote:Trying to end an argument based on something completely irrelevant. Why do right-wingers(and yes you are very right-wing) Trump supporters(which you clearly are) always end up trying to use this tactic that is clearly dishonest? Pants-of-dog has the same access to information that you do, and he's refuted your argument, quite clearly, with Drlee posting in response, as well.

U.S. intelligence agencies were issuing ominous, classified warnings in January and February about the global danger posed by the coronavirus while President Trump and lawmakers played down the threat..."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

"Top health officials first learned of the virus’s spread in China on January 3, US Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said Friday."
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... d-pandemic

Trump didn't drop the ball. He never even attempted to catch it.


I do not disagree with the concept that the warnings were ignored. The issue is: If you are president---- would you have closed the US border, impose social distancing, command corporations to build ventilators, stop the economy, and test the entire country in early January when there were no Corona cases in the USA? First case was reported in January 21, 2020. Would you, Obama, or anyone else have done that? How about Europe? Did they pay attention to the warnings?

As I said before the Asians did better job because they are closer to previous epidemics. In America SARS and MERS were never a big deal.

I have said at nauseam, I do not like Trump. I am a centrist! I look conservative in your eyes because you are a lefty.
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