" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 72 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15081605
Godstud wrote:Yes, @maz, because at that time, it wasn't. Things changed though, DUHHHH!!!


USA Today:
Coronavirus Cases:
277,475

Deaths:
7,402

Recovered:
12,283


However, Dr. Lee keeps saying the USA should have gone ALL out in January to stop the virus. AT that time there was one case on corona in a nation of 337 million people. It is classic Monday morning quarterbacking.
#15081606
Stormsmith wrote:Canada is just as diverse, with British Columbia home to many Asian-Canadians.

Here's what happened

1. On January 30, 2020, the World Health Organization declares the outbreak of COVID-19 a public health event of international concern.
2. On January 25, 2020, Canada confirms its first case of COVID-19 related to travel in Wuhan, China.
3. On January 22, 2020, Canada implements screening requirements related to COVID-19 for travellers returning from China to major airports in Montréal, Toronto and Vancouver.
4. On January 20, America confirms its first case of COVID-19 related to travel in Wuhan, China.
5. On January 15, 2020, the Public Health Agency of Canada activates the Emergency Operation Centre to support Canada's response to COVID-19.On January 7, 2020, China confirmed COVID-19.

As you can see the first American and Canadian were determined at virtually the same time.

So, this vast and diverse country of mine was prepared for coronavirus in advance, thanks to WHO test kits etc.

And here are the results of all 13 territories and provinces and the 50 US states:

CANADA: 12,531 cases; 187 deaths
U.S. of A: 277,491 cases; 7146 deaths

For easy figuring we generally allow there's 10 times more Americans than Canadians so your death rate is 7146 compared to 1870 for us. If you had prepared, you'd be better off.


That is a good post. I cannot argue with success. 8)

What is Canada doing that the USA is not doing? Be specific please.
#15081612
Drlee wrote:No they are not. :roll: A few minor teams. And don't even think about arguing with me about this, I worked for them for years. You son, do not even know how the USPHS works.


So what do they do if they are not activated? PLease explain.

Do you know what would be refreshing? For someone here to just listen objectively to the experts about what ought to be done and give them their due. I mean really. You do 25 years of schooling only to have some wet behind the ears know-it-all lecture you about something they know nothing about.


Dr. Fauci was not that concerned in January. The appealing to authority debate fallacy is poor form (years of schooling).

We are likely going to lose way over 100,000 people. We should all be screaming for blood. But no. It has come home to me that most people will never confront it. They will know someone who died but what the hell. Their future employment will likely be seriously in jeopardy. Oh well, you know, lib'rals.



Between 12,000 and 60,000 people have died annually with Influenza since 2012.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

You are hysterical about this because you watch CNN all day. Yes, this is bad and worse than Influenza but America will survive.


Monumentally stupid people, making monumentally stupid decisions about a problem that at its core any decent major general could manage and take weekends off. It is a murderous comedy. Unintelligent people. Gotta be that. Because it it is not they are a pile of psychopaths.


I agree with you in that Trump is incompetent. However, he has been as incompetent as all Europeans leaders. Apparently Canada is doing incredibly well. What has Trudeau done that is different from what Trump did? Be specific.

And you know what is sad? I had to look after some pathetic idiot with a MAGA hat on the other day. Risk my life for someone who is to stupid to understand that it was the guy in the MAGA hat that put his life at risk in the first place.


Wow, a physician that judges his patients in a negative manner, I feel bad for your patients. You seem to have political inclination dysphoria. An SJW locked inside the body of a Republican, :knife: :knife: :knife: .

And Julian says he is not a Trump supporter all the while defending him with outrageously stupid ideas and excuses. Own it sport. Or admit that he is and has been fucking up by the numbers.

President Trump. Please put an Army infantry general in charge. Not some pentagon fool but a real infantry division commander. Give him your authority and get the fuck out of the way. Go play golf.


For the love of God the US ARmy engineers are building or have built hospitals and most are not even full.
In my state, Maryland, most Corona cases have been mild. I could go to my local hospital ER and bee seen within 20 minutes if I had a Corona unrelated illness.
#15081614
Julian658 wrote:What is Canada doing that the USA is not doing? Be specific please.
Government leadership is evident, at all levels.

Quick responses to medical needs. Provinces not struggling with each other to bid for medical supplies, like ventilators. (i.e. UHC showing its superior response to the pandemic)

Quick response to economic needs of people who are being put out of work, by federal government arranging for economic aid for those who need it.

Political parties putting aside differences for a common struggle.

The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, announced support to quickly mobilize Canadian researchers and life sciences companies to support large-scale efforts towards countermeasures to combat COVID-19, including potential vaccines and treatments.

The Government of Canada called on Canadian businesses and manufacturers to help deliver critical health supplies. Since then, the government has spoken directly with almost 3,000 Canadian companies that have offered their expertise and capacity to meet the country’s need for personal protective equipment and critical health supplies.

Canada Shows How Easy Virus Testing Can Be
Canadians’ well-funded system and careful planning has contained the coronavirus for now.
“To my understanding, original FDA policy was not allowing local high-complexity labs to do testing until very recently,” said Andrea Prinzi, a clinical microbiologist. “Everything was being sent to CDC if testing was done.”

When COVID-19 hit this winter, the NML began accepting tests from labs across the country—which comes with a built-in lag time, as samples need to be sent by mail or courier. By mid-February, though, British Columbia and Ontario, which saw the entirety of the early cases, scaled up their own labs to both test patients locally and validate their own results. More recently, Quebec and Alberta have joined them.

“In Ontario, confirmation of positives by NML was dropped a few weeks ago,” said Krista Urchenko, a medical laboratory technologist in Ontario.

The Winnipeg lab continued to support other testing efforts. When an airplane landed from Japan, carrying passengers who had recently been on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, the NML set up a mobile lab onsite to monitor anyone experiencing symptoms.

Contrast that with the United States: Up until the final days of February, as dozens of cases cropped up across the country, all tests ran directly through the CDC in Atlanta, Georgia.


Julian658 wrote:Between 12,000 and 60,000 people have died annually with Influenza since 2012.
That infects a far greater number of people and doesn't hospitalize nearly as many as COVID. EVERY medical professional is not comparing this to the flu. Only the ignorant do that.

38 million Americans get the flu every year. Do the math if Covid infects that many people. DO. THE. MATH.

38,000,000 x 4.4% deathrate( as it currently stands) = 1.672 MILLION deaths. It's not the flu!!

Let not forget the people who are STILL getting the flu or other diseases and who won't get treated properly because the hospitals are over-crowded.
Last edited by Godstud on 04 Apr 2020 14:13, edited 1 time in total.
#15081616
Julian658 wrote:What is Canada doing that the USA is not doing? Be specific please.

Canada does not have the same overcrowded cities that the United States has. Canada just doesn't have the vast Black and Latino ghettos that the United States has. Of course you'd expect it to spread much quicker in the United States. Compare Canada with the Dakotas and then see who is doing best against this virus.
#15081623
Rich wrote:Canada does not have the same overcrowded cities that the United States has. Canada just doesn't have the vast Black and Latino ghettos that the United States has. Of course you'd expect it to spread much quicker in the United States. Compare Canada with the Dakotas and then see who is doing best against this virus.

Canada's cities are very similar to US cities in crowdedness. However, many European cities are much more crowded, such as Spain and Italy's cities.

But Singapore and Hong Kong are even more crowded (dense) and yet didn't go through the same high death rate as the two European countries I just named.

So there are a lot of reasons for rapid transmission, and there are many possible responses to pandemics.

Most of the Western countries (including Canada) have been cutting back on social programs for most of my lifetime in order to enrich the billionaire class as much as possible. And with COVID eating up all our energy and newspaper coverage, there hasn't been much thought given to "we're bankrupt now" or "only the billionaires are currently free to organize themselves for protection."

This will be the big new of the coming year. What the billionaire class will do to us next.
#15081626
One of the many problem is the US is how decentralized the government is. We have some states choosing not to issue stay at home orders. We have some cities/counties doing the same. It's a patchwork.

Unfortunately, to stop a virus, you really need nation wide orders, but the US is fundamentally not setup for that. This patchwork approach doesn't cut it.

Is it time to raise the white flag?
#15081627
foxdemon wrote:I accept your point that not all social democrats would think quite the same way. But Bernie and Swedish politicians are awfully similar in their mind set.


Your impression that they are somewhat similar about some things does not suggest they would handle this specific crisis in the exact same way, and it ignores how other social democrat governments have handled it.

I think you also have a point here. Had Bernie, or any other social democrat, or even a mildly left leaning politician, had the chance to establish a public health system, then that would have greatly enhanced the speed with which US health care could respond. The need to stop and argue about who pays for it slows policy response when time is critical. It also completely undermines public confidence and spreads uncertainty and fear when people believe they will get no health care if the virus infects them.

But I can’t see how Trump could have changed that.


He could have changed it with a single executive order saying that testing and treatment would be free for everyone.

I mean, realistically. For reasons best known to themselves, Americans have been incapable of getting public health sorted out for generations. It seems everything that is wrong and bad from the last 4 or 5 decades now gets blamed on Trump. Seems like he is used as a convenient scape goat for the establishment, if you ask me.


Your opinion about whether or not Trump is the victim is irrelevant.

You could use examples like failing to use his position to force the establishment to accept that tests will be free. I mean, [email protected]#k me! How could they not make tests free? And a less subsidise treatment. It is free in my country. Or compensate employers and employees effectively rather than just throw money at Wall Street.

So there might be some things he could have done or not done. But does he really have enough power to override the establishment? Obama couldn’t rein in Wall Street. He couldn’t reform the health industry either.

The problem with American’s response goes much deeper than Trump.


I think part of the problem is this weird and unrealistic idea that people have that Trump is not part of the establishment. He is.

——————————

@Julian658

What has Trump done that has been effective?

Be specific.
#15081636
Free?
Are you sure?

COVID-19 Testing Is Supposed to Be Free. Here's Why You Might Still Get Billed
But beware. Our health care system is a mess and the law does not explicitly prohibit charging you if you go to an out-of-network provider. It also doesn’t address other “surprise billing” problems.

The law requires insurers to cover testing and doctor’s office, urgent care, telehealth or emergency room visits as long as the services “relate to the furnishing or administration” of a COVID-19 test or “to the evaluation of such individual for purposes of determining the need” of a test. That means that if your visit does not result in a COVID-19 test, if you get tested somewhere that is not in your insurance plan’s network, or if you’re treated in anyway besides just getting a test, you could end up with a bill.

“When your health plan has to cover [testing], that just means the health plan has to cover what it would say is a reasonable charge,” explains Karen Pollitz, a senior fellow at the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. “The difference between what your health plan thinks is reasonable and what the provider bills you, that’s on you.”

https://time.com/5806724/coronavirus-testing-costs/
#15081639
Godstud wrote:Government leadership is evident, at all levels.

Quick responses to medical needs. Provinces not struggling with each other to bid for medical supplies, like ventilators. (i.e. UHC showing its superior response to the pandemic)

Quick response to economic needs of people who are being put out of work, by federal government arranging for economic aid for those who need it.

Political parties putting aside differences for a common struggle.

The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, announced support to quickly mobilize Canadian researchers and life sciences companies to support large-scale efforts towards countermeasures to combat COVID-19, including potential vaccines and treatments.

The Government of Canada called on Canadian businesses and manufacturers to help deliver critical health supplies. Since then, the government has spoken directly with almost 3,000 Canadian companies that have offered their expertise and capacity to meet the country’s need for personal protective equipment and critical health supplies.

Canada Shows How Easy Virus Testing Can Be
Canadians’ well-funded system and careful planning has contained the coronavirus for now.
“To my understanding, original FDA policy was not allowing local high-complexity labs to do testing until very recently,” said Andrea Prinzi, a clinical microbiologist. “Everything was being sent to CDC if testing was done.”

When COVID-19 hit this winter, the NML began accepting tests from labs across the country—which comes with a built-in lag time, as samples need to be sent by mail or courier. By mid-February, though, British Columbia and Ontario, which saw the entirety of the early cases, scaled up their own labs to both test patients locally and validate their own results. More recently, Quebec and Alberta have joined them.

“In Ontario, confirmation of positives by NML was dropped a few weeks ago,” said Krista Urchenko, a medical laboratory technologist in Ontario.

The Winnipeg lab continued to support other testing efforts. When an airplane landed from Japan, carrying passengers who had recently been on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, the NML set up a mobile lab onsite to monitor anyone experiencing symptoms.

Contrast that with the United States: Up until the final days of February, as dozens of cases cropped up across the country, all tests ran directly through the CDC in Atlanta, Georgia.


That infects a far greater number of people and doesn't hospitalize nearly as many as COVID. EVERY medical professional is not comparing this to the flu. Only the ignorant do that.


OK, Canadians have done it better. The USA is a huge cluster of faoock with a lot of confusion. I do not disagree.

38 million Americans get the flu every year. Do the math if Covid infects that many people. DO. THE. MATH.

38,000,000 x 4.4% deathrate( as it currently stands) = 1.672 MILLION deaths. It's not the flu!!

Let not forget the people who are STILL getting the flu or other diseases and who won't get treated properly because the hospitals are over-crowded.


I agree with the math, but let's see where this ends. You have stated your point well!
#15081640
Pants-of-dog wrote:Your impression that they are somewhat similar about some things does not suggest they would handle this specific crisis in the exact same way, and it ignores how other social democrat governments have handled it.



He could have changed it with a single executive order saying that testing and treatment would be free for everyone.



Your opinion about whether or not Trump is the victim is irrelevant.



I think part of the problem is this weird and unrealistic idea that people have that Trump is not part of the establishment. He is.

——————————

@Julian658

What has Trump done that has been effective?

Be specific.


The curve is still rising, therefore nothing has worked.
#15081644
Trump could still salvage this if he stopped worrying about how many followers he had on Facebook and led, by instituting some federal regulations on quarantines , public gatherings, etc. In short, deal with the pandemic, instead of looking for photo ops.

Sadly, USA will probably pay for this lack of leadership.

@Julian658 Nothing is working because you have guys like the Georgia governor, who are responding far to late.

2 days ago... WTF.
Georgia governor admits he just learned asymptomatic people can spread COVID-19
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/geor ... 1570885546
#15081646
There was a plan to reopen Obamacare enrollment to get millions more into the plan.

At the last moment, Trump chickened out.

Now he wants to roll out a plan of his own. Maybe, if he gets around to it, maybe he can put Kushner in charge of it.

You guys notice anything about his plans?

Image
#15081649
Rancid wrote:I read that insurance companies waived the cost as well. Mine did.


It was stated at the last WH briefing that people without insurance would not be billed for treatment.


Is it time to waive the white flag?


As of today we have about 7500 deaths. This is less than with Influenza in previous years. However, the mortality with Corona is higher than with the Influenza, perhaps 15-20 times higher. So it all depends on how many people get infected. In 2009, the CDC reported an estimated 50 million Americans or 1 in 6 people had been infected with the 2009 A H1N1 Virus and 10,000 Americans had died. Swine flu was a cakewalk in 2009 as the mortality was also much lower, the epidemic barely made the news.

7500 dead out of one million infected is much worse than 10000 dead out of 50 million. In Italy the mortality with Corona is much higher.

All we can do is wait this one out. By the way Cuomo still has ventilators and he can get many more from other hospitals in the state.

As for PPEs a nurse or doc working in ICU can probably go through 30 masks and gowns in just one shift. The need is massive.
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