" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 91 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15083209
Julian658 wrote:Do you think God feels superior over there?

Your racism against others is noted.

But do you think scapegoating other nations makes you strong, or just violent?

I think meaningful strenght comes from adaptability to changing circumstances. And regressive racism against other countries, harks back to the 19th Century.

Soon, we'll realize how harmful scapegoating nature was as well. But first, you are going to have to join the mid-20th Century and realize that humans are humans, and that racism (and discrimination) are just economic hitman strategies.
#15083213
Hind is just trying to change the subject away from Trump's terrible leadership.

I don't feel superior to anyone. What kind of argument is this? Feelings are not topical. Try to stick to the topic at hand, instead of getting sidetracked by dotards who want to chat about the irrelevant.
#15083221
The post is directed at POD who is looking for racism where there is none. Thanks for the goggled info


First of all I did not need to google that stuff, it is my job to know it.

Secondly POD is not looking for racism where there is none. You may not be able to ascribe it to any individual but the deliberate neglect of our African American citizens when it comes to health care is not even subject to debate. Study after study shows that blacks are treated less comprehensively than whites by the health care establishment. All you have to do is hang around an emergency room to see exactly what I mean.

I am going to take a Stanford CME on managing dementia in African American patients. It is part of a series that speaks to the problem of dementia in several ethnic communities. The take away is that if the largely white always educated medical community does not prepare itself for the differences in racial and ethnic communities, results will suffer.

Of course the republican party and its voter suppression efforts in minority communities clearly shows that not only is a significant part of the American population racist, it is so inculcated in our citizenry that there is political advantage in openly embracing it.

Now you will tell us that the republican party is not racist and we will laugh at you from the privacy of our keyboards.
#15083226
Liberals, like you, have a hard time accepting the truth.


Ah kind fellow. You appear to have forgotten that I am a conservative. It is an easy mistake to make. Do not fret your handsome head about it at all.
#15083236
Pants-of-dog wrote:Speaking of racism, Covid-19 is disproportionately affecting people of colour and poor people.

The rich flee, the middle class hide, and the poor stay at work and use mass transit and keep everything going and get infected.



Well, in Australia, the corona virus is disproportionally affecting the wilfully stupid who decided to go on Ocean cruises during a pandemic. 17 out of 54 deaths nation wide, so far.

But why aren’t minorities impacted in Australia and NZ?


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-26/australia-s-most-isolated-communities-lock-down-to-beat-virus


Oh, both governments had the good sense to lock vulnerable communities down as one of their first acts once they started taking the virus seriously. And the S Pacific has been sealed off also.


Meanwhile in Canada, indigenous communities have to ask the government to act.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-first-nations-along-bcs-north-central-coasts-ask-for-crack-down-on/


The pandemic is already more advanced in Canada than Oz and NZ. What are you guys doing?

From the first link:

“This disease has spread so fast that everyone has been focusing on battening down the hatches and protecting their own communities,” said Jason Agostino, a doctor who since the start of the crisis has worked as an advocate for the National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisation in Canberra.

“But going forward it will important to share lockdown information and strategies with the indigenous peoples of North America, New Zealand and the Pacific Islands,” he said. “We’re all dealing with really similar problems -- high rates of chronic disease, increased levels of poverty and over-crowding, and some extremely isolated places where ensuring supplies remain available through secure logistical routes is going to be a big problem.”




Maybe you could suggest to some of the people you know that they could contact this guy?



Incidentally, Muslim and African communities in NZ and Oz have been obeying the lock down rules. Admittedly in the case of Australia, that would be because of the heavy penalties of breaching the Biosecurity Act. The figures for Black and Asian (Pakistani) in the UK are shocking, worse than the USA. But acendotal reports from around the net claim people in these communities aren’t obeying social isolation rules.


Meanwhile, Trump keeps calling it the Chinese virus and racism against people who look Chinese is on the rise.



Well, it did come from China. But there certainly is rising xenophobia due to fear of this virus. Australians and Canadians in China are getting a rough time. Luckily you are here to put a stop to this.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-09/coronavirus-intensifies-anti-foreigner-sentiment-in-china/12128224
#15083261
Drlee wrote:
This is just weird. You are making no sense at all. What, exactly is your point? You seem to be denying racism because it is, after all, just a choice to discriminate?



He started with the conclusion and worked backwards from there.

When you are addicted to excuses, any excuse, no matter how feeble, will do.
Last edited by late on 10 Apr 2020 11:27, edited 1 time in total.
#15083273
SpecialOlympian wrote:
@godstud Julian's big dumb point was that racial discrimination is still discrimination. Please focus on the discrimination, I don't want to talk about the race part for reasons I don't want to get into.



“You can tell you’ve found a really interesting question when nobody wants you to answer it.”
The Expanse

We are in a historic wave of racism that started about 30 years ago. That was when desegregation reversed, and we started re-segregating.

"While the number of reported hate crimes dipped slightly in 2018, violence against individuals rose to a 16-year high, according to numbers released Tuesday by the FBI.

The FBI's annual tally counted 7,120 hate crimes reported last year, 55 fewer than the year before. The main concern for extremism trackers, however, is the rising level of violence — the report showed an increase in the number of "crimes against persons," such as intimidation, assault and homicide.

"We're seeing a leaner and meaner type of hate crime going on," said Brian Levin, director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University San Bernardino. "Homicides were up and crimes against persons were up and that's an important thing to look at."

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/12/778542614/fbi-reports-dip-in-hate-crimes-but-rise-in-violence

My impression is that this is getting worse, making discussion and reform imperative.
#15083283
Godstud wrote:@Julian658 It's not simply about superiority of one group or another, but a denigration of another group. That, in itself, implies superiority. Kapeesh?

The simple definition is insufficient.

Racism is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another. It may also mean prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against other people because they are of a different race or ethnicity. Modern variants of racism are often based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples. These views can take the form of social actions, practices or beliefs, or political systems in which different races are ranked as inherently superior or inferior to each other, based on presumed shared inheritable traits, abilities, or qualities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism



Not everyone would agree with the definition you present. Some think racism = power + privilege. It follows from this definition that those who have power and privilege are the only ones who can be racist. Hence white people are racist and black people are not, regardless of any other factor. It is also seen to be structural, and hence the very existence of ‘whiteness’ is a colonial relic and thus inherently racial supremacist in form. This is the hard left, or cultural Marxist if you like, position typically expressed in the phrase “ only white people can be racist”.

Of course not everyone agrees with such an obviously ideologically twisted definition.

https://research-repository.griffith.edu.au/handle/10072/40097


There’s some late night reading for you.

What do I think? The focus on racism is reductionist. This holds for sexism and other types of prejudice also. The hard left cultural Marxists themselves would have to agree with me here, at least on this first principle. They use the idea of intersectionality, which then follows on to their usual commie nonsense. For me, the idea is that racism, sexism, etc are all a sub set of prejudice. The long standing liberal idea is that an individual’s success in life ought be due to their own efforts and that prejudice represents an unacceptable limit on what an individual can achieve. Liberalism is meritocratic. Prejudice is an impediment to meritocracy. Therefore the lack individual ought be protected from it.

This line of thinking is what justified the start of the civil rights era, during Truman’s time. Cultural Marxist intersectionality just subverts the liberal project for their own diabolical commie agenda.


Anyway, after that brief digression, I wanted to take the opportunity to steer @maz in the right direction.


I mentioned UK stats.

Image


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52219070

The BBC article then goes on to look at reasons.

London has most of the cases and also has a higher proportion of minorities.

Over crowded households (by modern standards)

Also a range of other reasons:

"These include BME populations coming from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, having [public-facing] occupations, different cultural beliefs and behaviours or being at high risk in view of their increased risk of certain diseases such as diabetes and heart disease."


Let’s look at the public facing job suggestion, given this is offered as an explanation in the US also.

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2020/04/06/charles-m-blow-social/


The NHS is used as an example.

Image

Whites make up about 80% of the national population. Most first responders here seem to be white. Nurses reflect the national proportions. Only doctors are over represented by minorities (should there be affirmative action here in favour of white peoples, haha). Are there so many doctors in the UK that they account for the national disparity in cases between ethnic groups?

Obviously this is nonsense.

I suggest a significant reason for the higher stats for Asians (Pakistanis) is that most are very religious and the virus spread though the mosques before the UK government shut them down. Note Pakistan still hasn’t shut down mosques. So it would be a combination of conservative community plus lack of urgency from the government until it was too late.

What of blacks?

https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/london-crime-capital-sees-shocking-18059419

Urban crime seems to be continuing in London. The drug trade won’t have stopped. Minority youths are heavily involved in gangs which do a lot of drug dealing. Could it be the case that the virus has spread though underworld channels? This would show up in higher cases amongst blacks.

So let’s break it down. What basic reasons are there?

Higher infection rate.

Higher complication rate.

Higher death rate.



https://www.okayplayer.com/news/are-black-people-immune-to-coronavirus.html


Toward the bottom of the article on that link there is a tweet that shows it is all three. Blacks have a very high infection rate, high complication rate and high death rate compared to the average.

This data doesn’t give us a breakdown of ethic group and comorbidities but it seems reasonable to accept the average of unhealthy people is higher in black communities. One would expect poverty and discrimination to be factors in America, but the same result can be seen in the UK with its public health care and high proportion of Asian doctors (they wouldn’t discriminate against blacks because only white people can be racist, right?). So maybe it is the poor health of blacks that lies behind higher complication rates and thus higher death rates.

If this is not so, we will have to look at genetic factors. I have no information about this however.


But what of higher infection rates? I think the public facing job theory has been debunked. But if it were so, we would expect to see higher infection rates amount poor whites in the same circumstances. Given that doesn’t seem to show up in the stats we looked at, that can’t be the reason.

Note the article explains the myth that was going around about blacks being immune.


A story that should’ve ended there ultimately became the source for fake news, as two websites, in particular, changed Daryl’s story and spread harmful misinformation in the process. First, there was the African Daily Mail, who published the story “The black African student escaped coronavirus” on February 13. (It has since been deleted.) The report included the claim that “Chinese doctors have confirmed that he remained alive because he has black skin, the antibodies of a black are 3 times strong, powerful, and resistant as that of a white.” After that, came a report from CityScrollz, who published the story “Chinese Doctors Confirmed African Blood Genetic Composition Resist Coronavirus After Student Cured” on February 14. (It has since been deleted.) The story includes false reporting throughout, including the notion that Chinese doctors said Daryl “stayed alive because of his blood genetic composition which is mainly found in the genetic composition of sub-Saharan Africans.” The report also includes the same claim of Black skin having stronger antibodies than white skin that appeared in the Daily Mail‘s report.

Then came another misleading report from The Zambian Observer, who published the story “Chinese Doctor Says African Skin Resists Coronavirus” on February 16. The Observer report copies CityScrollz’s report word for word, with the only change being its headline. The report is still available to read on the website.

Both stories have since been proven to be false. On February 15, the global news agency AFP spoke with Professor Amadou Alpha Sall — director of the Institut Pasteur in Dakar, Senegal, a biomedical research center that is currently overseeing suspected cases of the coronavirus in Africa — to fact check if Black people are more resistant to the coronavirus.



According to @Godstud ‘s definition of racism, that is rather racist. It would be ironic if genetics turned out to be the reason blacks are more effected by this disease.


It seems, like religious conservatives from S Korea, USA, Iran, and Pakistani British, blacks have been caught unprepared due to their own hubris. The US government’s slow response, like the UK government, would also add to this community’s complacency. In fact Western governments generally were too slow in waking up to the danger, possibly thinking it is an Asian problem and doesn’t affect them. So it seems black Americans were suffering from the same hubris as most Western white people and had to learn the hard way what pandemic means. Furthermore, unhealthy lifestyles and heavy involvement in underworld activities, in which authorities would struggle to police isolation, are better explanations than the racist discrimination rhetoric used by AOC and other minority advocates.


So Maz, the case you should be arguing is that minorities appear to be largely responsible for their situation but the tardy response of governments is also a factor. Minority advocates are exploiting the situation for their own gain in wealth and influence. As we all know, good causes attracts con artists like shit attracts flies.

Hopes that helps.
#15083287
foxdemon wrote:What do I think? The focus on racism is reductionist. This holds for sexism and other types of prejudice also. The hard left cultural Marxists themselves would have to agree with me here, at least on this first principle. They use the idea of intersectionality, which then follows on to their usual commie nonsense. For me, the idea is that racism, sexism, etc are all a sub set of prejudice. The long standing liberal idea is that an individual’s success in life ought be due to their own efforts and that prejudice represents an unacceptable limit on what an individual can achieve. Liberalism is meritocratic. Prejudice is an impediment to meritocracy. Therefore the lack individual ought be protected from it.

This line of thinking is what justified the start of the civil rights era, during Truman’s time. Cultural Marxist intersectionality just subverts the liberal project for their own diabolical commie agenda.


foxdemon wrote:Hey, I hear African America is facing an impending income crisis. Apparently the well meaning, but gullible crazy cracker progressives aren’t breeding enough. When the proportion of them in America’s population drops below a certain threshold, who will be left to pay for African Americans? Don’t look to Asian or Latin Americans for help. They’ll just tell you “If you want it, then you work for it”.


In summary, I hate liberalism for espousing ideals that (nominally) hinder its ability to enact racism and communism for rejecting an already unacceptably low baseline of racism.
Last edited by SpecialOlympian on 10 Apr 2020 13:14, edited 2 times in total.
#15083288
Foxdemon wrote:According to @Godstud ‘s definition of racism, that is rather racist. It would be ironic if genetics turned out to be the reason blacks are more effected by this disease.
:roll: It's not MY definition.


It was the definition from these sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
Dennis, R.M. (2004). "Racism". In Kuper, A.; Kuper, J. (eds.). The Social Science Encyclopedia, Volume 2 (3rd ed.). London; New York: Routledge. ISBN 978-1-134-35969-1. Racism, the idea that there is a direct correspondence between a group's values, behavior and attitudes, and its physical features [...]

Racism Oxford Dictionaries
Ghani, Navid (2008). "Racism". In Schaefer, Richard T. (ed.). Encyclopedia of Race, Ethnicity, and Society. SAGE. pp. 1113–1115. ISBN 978-1-4129-2694-2.

Newman, D. M. (2012). Sociology : exploring the architecture of everyday life (9th ed.). Los Angeles: SAGE. p. 405. ISBN 978-1-4129-8729-5. racism: Belief that humans are subdivided into distinct groups that are different in their social behavior and innate capacities and that can be ranked as superior or inferior.


It is far more likely that culture and class play significant roles in infection rates, and not genetics, as you'd like to believe.
Last edited by Godstud on 10 Apr 2020 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
#15083290
QatzelOk wrote:Your racism against others is noted.

But do you think scapegoating other nations makes you strong, or just violent?

I think meaningful strenght comes from adaptability to changing circumstances. And regressive racism against other countries, harks back to the 19th Century.

Soon, we'll realize how harmful scapegoating nature was as well. But first, you are going to have to join the mid-20th Century and realize that humans are humans, and that racism (and discrimination) are just economic hitman strategies.


You are a clear example of people on the left that see racism where there is none. The comment was made as a follow up to the perennial so-called superiority that Godstud demonstrates when dealing with Americans. If Godstud feels superior to Americans no one cares. Do you care if Godstud feels superior to citizens in Thailand? Is there a difference? What is your point?
#15083291
Julian658 wrote: The comment was made as a follow up to the perennial so-called superiority that Godstud demonstrates when dealing with Americans. If Godstud feels superior to Americans no one cares. Do you care if Godstud feels superior to citizens in Thailand? Is there a difference? What is your point?
:roll: What a load of bullshit.

If I demonstrate superiority, then it is only in my knowledge of the topic at hand. I can see why you might have negative feelings about that. I don't FEEL anything, because I am not basing my arguments on feelings.

Julian658 wrote:If Godstud feels superior to Americans no one cares.
Apparently you, Hindsite, and others, DO care, or you wouldn't talk about it. It is, after all, irrelevant.
#15083299
Godstud wrote::roll: What a load of bullshit.

If I demonstrate superiority, then it is only in my knowledge of the topic at hand. I can see why you might have negative feelings about that. I don't FEEL anything, because I am not basing my arguments on feelings.
Apparently you, Hindsite, and others, DO care, or you wouldn't talk about it. It is, after all, irrelevant.


You say you have more knowledge than many Americans. Most people in America do not care one way or another. I certainly don't care at all. If you make a bad point I will debate you and if you make a good point and I learn something new I will let you know.

Do you feel the same way about the people of Thailand?
#15083301
Drlee wrote:No actually the word is racism. You really need to get with it son.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, as I said, Trump's popularity is in free fall over this.

The American people simply believe he is doing a poor job.


Drlee you are confusing if not very inconsistent. How did you come of with that? Thought you said just the other day on this same thread you don't believe in polls?

post # 15082064 page 77 on this thread :knife: you replied to me

Drlee wrote:I don't believe the polls. The had Hillary by a landslide. Besides. There is an old saying: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in great numbers."
#15083303
Godstud wrote::roll: It's not MY definition.


It was the definition from these sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
Dennis, R.M. (2004). "Racism". In Kuper, A.; Kuper, J. (eds.). The Social Science Encyclopedia, Volume 2 (3rd ed.). London; New York: Routledge. ISBN 978-1-134-35969-1. Racism, the idea that there is a direct correspondence between a group's values, behavior and attitudes, and its physical features [...]

Racism Oxford Dictionaries
Ghani, Navid (2008). "Racism". In Schaefer, Richard T. (ed.). Encyclopedia of Race, Ethnicity, and Society. SAGE. pp. 1113–1115. ISBN 978-1-4129-2694-2.

Newman, D. M. (2012). Sociology : exploring the architecture of everyday life (9th ed.). Los Angeles: SAGE. p. 405. ISBN 978-1-4129-8729-5. racism: Belief that humans are subdivided into distinct groups that are different in their social behavior and innate capacities and that can be ranked as superior or inferior.


It is far more likely that culture and class play significant roles in infection rates, and not genetics, as you'd like to believe.


Can you please refresh my memory on where you got the quote you attributed to me because I do not recall every posting that, so if you didn't make it up just to look like it was my quote can you please direct me to what thread and post number to refresh my memory.

thanks
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