[late]

Thats right it was originated in Yunnan which is 800km from Wuhan

That fits the facts reasonably well.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

[Hindsite]

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) is directly responsible for the current global pandemic that has caused a staggering death count and the loss of businesses, jobs, and income.

The CCP lied about the origin of the outbreak and covered it up, costing the world six valuable weeks of preparation. The virus started in central China, and might have been contained there—but instead, it was allowed to spread, creating a global pandemic. Unfortunately, the virus is only the tip of the iceberg. For decades, the CCP has been actively undermining the economies, national security, and moral fabric of nations around the world.

It steals from wealthy nations, such as the United States, through cyberattacks and intellectual property theft, and enslaves developing countries through debt-traps. It has infiltrated vital institutions around the world—such as universities, news media, governing bodies, and international organizations like the United Nations.

Furthermore, the CCP uses its propaganda channels to promote its wicked ideology and lies around the world in an effort to sow discord and cover up its own crimes. Those who have been the greatest victims of the CCP have been the Chinese people. An estimated 65 million Chinese people have died as a result of the CCP’s tyrannical rule over the past 70 years—with the real number believed to be much higher. To this day, the CCP’s persecution campaigns continue, including the forced harvesting of organs from prisoners of conscience.

Wuhan lab scientists investigated

The Chinese regime has been claiming no new virus cases in the epicenter for the past 25 days. But local residential notices say otherwise.

[skinster]

[Donna]

The CCP lied about the origin of the outbreak and covered it up, costing the world six valuable weeks of preparation.

Lol, as soon as the virus became a problem for Beijing the Five Eyes started passing on memos to government heads. They dithered anyway.

[Hindsite]

Lol, as soon as the virus became a problem for Beijing the Five Eyes started passing on memos to government heads. They dithered anyway.

Early on President Trump offered to send U.S. medical experts over to China to help with the virus, but China refused, probably because they knew they had been doing some things wrong and wanted time to try to cover it up. They still will not let anyone in the country to investigate and even kicked many foreign journalist out of China.

[ThirdTerm]

A new study from France found that Covid-19 was already spreading in France in late December 2019, a month before the official first cases in the country. France reported the first cases of SARS-COV-2 related infection on January 24, 2020. Both cases had a history of travel to Wuhan. But patient zero is actually a French man in his 40s who was hospitalized in late December 2019, when some of the first cases in Wuhan emerged possibly by a lab leak. The French man has no history of travelling to China or contacting Chinese people. There is no current evidence to suggest that coronavirus leaked from a Chinese research laboratory. A “15-page dossier” highlighted by the Australian Daily Telegraph – a Sydney tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch – which accused China of a deadly lab leak was likely to be forged, according to intelligence sources.

Abstract
The COVID-19 epidemic is believed to have started in late January 2020 in France. We report here a case of a patient hospitalized in December 2019 in our intensive care, of our hospital in the north of Paris, for hemoptysis with no etiological diagnosis and for which RT-PCR was performed retrospectively on the stored respiratory sample which confirmed the diagnosis of COVID-19 infection. Based on this result, it appears that the COVID-19 epidemic started much earlier.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7920301643

[B0ycey]

A new study from France found that Covid-19 was already spreading in France in late December 2019, a month before the official first cases in the country. France reported the first cases of SARS-COV-2 related infection on January 24, 2020. Both cases had a history of travel to Wuhan. But patient zero is actually a French man in his 40s who was hospitalized in late December 2019, when some of the first cases in Wuhan emerged possibly by a lab leak. The French man has no history of travelling to China or contacting Chinese people. There is no current evidence to suggest that coronavirus leaked from a Chinese research laboratory. A “15-page dossier” highlighted by the Australian Daily Telegraph – a Sydney tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch – which accused China of a deadly cover up was likely to be forged, according to intelligence sources.

It is just more evidence that perhaps contagion is much greater than reported than anything else.

[Hindsite]

A new study from France found that Covid-19 was already spreading in France in late December 2019, a month before the official first cases in the country. France reported the first cases of SARS-COV-2 related infection on January 24, 2020. Both cases had a history of travel to Wuhan. But patient zero is actually a French man in his 40s who was hospitalized in late December 2019, when some of the first cases in Wuhan emerged possibly by a lab leak. The French man has no history of travelling to China or contacting Chinese people.

I guess we will have to assume it didn't happen, since it is unofficial.

[Donna]

Early on President Trump offered to send U.S. medical experts over to China to help with the virus, but China refused, probably because they knew they had been doing some things wrong and wanted time to try to cover it up. They still will not let anyone in the country to investigate and even kicked many foreign journalist out of China.

All you're doing is speculating here without any evidence. China of course has its own specialists and may not have needed outside assistance.

[ThirdTerm]

The first French patient was identified as a 43-year-old man named Amirouche Hammar, an Algerian-born fishmonger. He travelled to Algeria in August 2019, and he has no known connection to China. Covid-19 could have spread in the North African community in Paris before the nationwide outbreak. Researchers will study the genetic code of the virus that infected Hammar, to see how it can be linked to other samples analyzed in China, which would determine if the virus was brought into France by Chinese travellers from Wuhan. Preliminary research from the US has suggested one particular mutation - D614G - is becoming dominant and could make the disease more infectious. D614G began spreading in Europe in early February and it rapidly becomes the dominant form in other regions.

Summary
We have developed an analysis pipeline to facilitate real-time mutation tracking in SARS-CoV-2, focusing initially on the Spike (S) protein because it mediates infection of human cells and is the target of most vaccine strategies and antibody-based therapeutics. To date we have identified fourteen mutations in Spike that are accumulating. Mutations are considered in a broader phylogenetic context, geographically, and over time, to provide an early warning system to reveal mutations that may confer selective advantages in transmission or resistance to interventions. Each one is evaluated for evidence of positive selection, and the implications of the mutation are explored through structural modeling. The mutation Spike D614G is of urgent concern; it began spreading in Europe in early February, and when introduced to new regions it rapidly becomes the dominant form. Also, we present evidence of recombination between locally circulating strains, indicative of multiple strain infections. These finding have important implications for SARS-CoV-2 transmission, pathogenesis and immune interventions.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 9.069054v1

[Hindsite]

All you're doing is speculating here without any evidence. China of course has its own specialists and may not have needed outside assistance.

It is clear now that China did need outside assistance. But the real reason why they did not allow the United States in and still will not allow the United States in was because of their secret biological warfare program. A State Department report last year revealed suspicions of covert biological warfare work by China.

[Donna]

It is clear now that China did need outside assistance.

How?

But the real reason why they did not allow the United States in and still will not allow the United States in was because of their secret biological warfare program. A State Department report last year revealed suspicions of covert biological warfare work by China.

More than likely they saw that Trump's offer of help was not genuine and politically motivated.

[Hindsite]

How?

More than likely they saw that Trump's offer of help was not genuine and politically motivated.

Spoken just like a left-wing Democrat that can't except truth. If they had really wanted to contain the virus and not to spread the virus all over the world, the CCP would and should have accepted all the help they could get. But their goal was to conceal and cover up the source of the virus. Now, they are making the outrageous claim that the virus came from the USA. I don't doubt that you left-wing Democrats will eat that crap up.

[Godstud]

Give up, @Donna. Hindsite doesn't deal in facts or reality. He deals in rumours, right-wing propaganda, and supposition.

[foxdemon]

@ThirdTerm Could I ask your opinion on these articles?


https://zenodo.org/record/3724003#.XrO41Mp_Wf1

This first one is an analysis of the global genomic structure of the novel corona virus 2019 in comparison with similar viruses. It also discusses the HIV inserts, of which there are quite a lot. Apparently these code for retrovirus functions. Furthermore, they could only be artificial in origin.

That retrovirus bit really sucks, if true. Once you get this virus, you never get rid of it.


The next article is remarkable as it seems to be someone’s anonymous website specifically for the purpose of posting research o e does not want to be caught for.


https://nerdhaspower.weebly.com/blog/scientific-evidence-and-logic-behind-the-claim-that-the-wuhan-coronavirus-is-man-made#comments



The article looks at the problem of the novel virus genome only diverging from two possible source bat viruses in the S protein region, but showing no evolution (ie: non functional mutation) in other regions. Had the viruses diverged via natural selection, we would expect neutral motions in non function regions, which would give us an idea of how long the two strains have been separating. So it looks like there are sequences inserted into the S region genome.

Furthermore, one of the insert regions is the polybasic furin cleavage site, which permits easy entry into human cells. This is not present in closely related corona virus and looks like an insert.

The other sequence with high divergence with related bats viruses in the S protein coding region is the ACE2 receptor binding sequence. I would expect the later to evolve quickly for reasons of selection.


So we have at least 11 sites that could have been due to human intervention. The polybasic site and the HIV retrovirus function sites are extremely suspicious.

The comments section of the last link also discusses whether RatG13 is a fabrication intended to show a natural origin for the novel corona virus (Wuhan).


So there is some genetic evidence that the SARS-2 is artificial. And there is evidence of a cover up.

Then there is the coincidence of a novel corona virus outbreak in the immediate vicinity of a lab that has been conducting gain of function experiments on exactly this type of virus.


What do you make of all this? I originally thought this virus could evolve in a wet market environment, but a close look at the genome and consideration of the unlikely coincidence of the virus appearing right next to the lab, and not at random somewhere else n China, has made me reconsider the question of an artificial origin for the SARS-Cov-2019 virus.

[Rich]

I like everyone else am not immune to error. Errors of act, errors of logic and errors of presentation. But I have to say I feel I nailed this one down pretty early on. The key points being.

1 This is a biological attack by the Nazi China regime against its own protesting people and against the free West. it did not evolve naturally and the scientific friends of China have made clear this it was effectively impossible for this to have escaped from a lab by accident.

2 This was probably more serious than the bad Flu outbreaks of recent decades, it may even be worse than the China 57 virus, but it is not much worse than the China Flu of 1918 as the scare mongers have made out.

3 Even though it may be pretty serious in its health repercussions, lock downs are not a credible long term strategy to deal with this. A higher level of mortality and long term illness will be accepted. Sweden's course will eventually seen as the wise and prudent strategy. Its just a matter of time for the people to accept the inevitable and for the politicians to climb down with minimal loss of face.

I have since added an extra point:

4 Lock down Liberals have looked for any possible signs that surviving the virus does not provide long term immunity. They want compulsory vaccines. Most of them were too stupid to realise that if the actual virus doesn't provide immunity, its extremly unlikely that any vaccine will.

[Godstud]

I like everyone else am not immune to error. Errors of act, errors of logic and errors of presentation.

Ah yes, and this preamble suits the following points you make, perfectly. Ironic.

1. Communist China is Nazi? That's one of the more uneducated things you have ever said. Is it atall possible to have a conversation without you always including some wacky, or zany, conspiracy theory?

Biological attack on its own people? Fiction. No evidence. CT.

2. This is not a flu. The comparisons to any flu are inaccurate, at best. This is also at a time when there are anti-biotics and other treatments so that it won't be as bad as the Spanish Flu of 1918, because of this. That, and the information we can share.

3. Places that didn't do what Sweden did, and locked down quickly, with government and civilian cooperation, suffered far less. This has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with reducing a death toll that in itself, would do more damage to the economy than any lockdowns.

Sweden's Covid cases took an upturn, and they had 700 new cases yesterday. It's hardly the thing we should be striving for.

Sweden:
Coronavirus Cases:
23,918
Deaths:
2,941

So much for Sweden being successful, in its strategy.

Perhaps you should look East at Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea, and other countries that have had success, instead of a country teetering on the brink.

4. Lockdowns have nothing to do with politics. They have to do with reducing the death toll and limiting the damage of the disease to both people and the economy.

What is this imagined immunity you speak of? There is no vaccine, yet. There is no treatment, yet. There isn't even any evidence that you cannot catch the disease again.

Until then, the only way to get ahead of this is testing to discover who has the disease and testing to discover who has had it, and try to get the economies rolling again, as safely as possible.

[Rich]

1. Communist China is Nazi? That's one of the more uneducated things you have ever said. Is it atall possible to have a conversation without you always including some wacky, or zany, conspiracy theory? :?:

Love it. Every-time you say conspiracy theory, you are in effect admitting that I am right and you have no counter argument. Of course I don't believe that Adolf Hitler or some other German Nazis survived and went to China and secretly took over. But you know that. I don't believe for one moment that you are so stupid that you believe that I believe that.

Vladimir Illyich Lenin was most definitely not a Russian National Socialist. For right or wrong he was virulently opposed to Russian nationalism. The same could be said of Trotsky. After the first world war, the primary ideological conflict or dialectic if you like reorientated around the nationalist / internationalist divide. This trend can be seen prior to the First World War but accelerated massively with the October Revolution. The Communist Party of Germany was intransigently anti German nationalism and patriotism. The French Communist Party was intransigently anti French nationalism. The extreme Right were extreme nationalists and the extreme Left were extreme internationalists.

Stalin of course was willing to use Russian nationalist prejudice and bigotry during World War II. He was quite happy to whip up anti German racism, but the Soviet Union retained its internationalist ideological doctrine, and its Communist economic system to the end. The Soviet Union remained fundamentality different to German National Socialism. The non European Communist Parties however were never so purely internationalist and flirted off an on with non Communist "third world" nationalism.

Deng Xiaoping and Adolph Hitler were men of very different temperaments. On a personal level I would probably prefer to hang out with the latter. They also became leaders of countries with very different systems in very different circumstances. But they both created or at the very least in the case Deng laid the foundations of National Socialist regimes. Nazi China in 2020 is arguable less Socialist than Nazi Germany after the July plot of 1944. China in 2020 arguably has a "freer" market and greater protection of private property than Hitler's Germany after the July plot, when the full Nazi revolution was finally implemented.

[Godstud]

Ah yes, ignore everything else and stop to spout your conspiracy theory nonsense.

No, what you believe isn't right. I am not admitting to anything but in your batshit crazy world, it might seem like it.

[late]

Every-time you say conspiracy theory, you are in effect admitting that I am right and you have no counter argument.

He also said wacky, and some other things...

Your terminology is wrong, and it's leading you into silly places...

We're talking about autocrats and dictators. As you get close to autocratic rule, politics dies. Opposition leaders get rounded up or killed. Which means ideology is mostly out the window, it comes down to a brute power struggle.

This also means Left/Right distinctions also go out the window, for the most part.

It's not a good idea to force different autocratic power structures into a single label, because there are big differences between them.