African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15094790
Pants-of-dog wrote:So he slowly choked the guy over several minutes even after he was told that Mr. Floyd could not breathe by accident? He was under the impression that cutting off oxygen for several minutes would not kill a human being?


I agree with Sivad. He didn't intentionally try to kill him. But the cop is ridiculously stupid and negligent for what he did, as are the other officers, especially not checking him after he went unresponsive.

What I think may have happened is that as you can see in the some of the footage, as the cops are bringing him to the cop car to put him the back Floyd falls down, it looks to me like he fell on purpose to delay going into the cruiser because he doesn't want to go off to jail. Shortly after when the cops open the cruiser door to put him in Floyd starts jumping while in cuffs, again a delay tactic most likely.

So I think the cops may have seen Floyd basically doing all sorts of insincere things, and probably saying them too, to avoid arrest. And so once they had him on the ground they probably didn't believe him when he said he couldn't breathe. And when he went unconscious maybe they didn't believe him either and thought it was another faking routine. But that doesn't excuse the cops for not checking him just in case once he went unresponsive. Like in MMA, as soon as you lose consciousness and you're quickly able to breathe again you'll become conscious again. The cops screwed up.
#15094791
Saeko wrote:Irrelevant. If you intend to hurt someone and that person dies as a result, US law sees it as murder, even if you didn't intend to kill them.


No, that would be voluntary manslaughter according to Minnesota law:

2019 Minnesota Statutes

609.20 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.

Whoever does any of the following is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 15 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $30,000, or both:

(1) intentionally causes the death of another person in the heat of passion provoked by such words or acts of another as would provoke a person of ordinary self-control under like circumstances, provided that the crying of a child does not constitute provocation;

(2) violates section 609.224(assault in the fifth degree) and causes the death of another or causes the death of another in committing or attempting to commit a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor offense with such force and violence that death of or great bodily harm to any person was reasonably foreseeable, and murder in the first or second degree was not committed thereby;
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.224

I don't know what it is when cops unintentionally kill someone with excessive force. I just have a hard time believing that cop deliberately killed that guy on camera in front of all those people. This is 2020 post black lives matter, there's no way that cop was thinking he could just kill someone right in front of witnesses and get away with it. He would know that at the very least he would be jeopardizing his career and his pension, he would know that killing that guy would put him in a world of shit.
#15094793
Unthinking Majority wrote:Well he was good at least until he crossed the street. Why did they edit the footage to cut right before they were trying to put him in the back of the police cruiser and he started acting up? ie: when the serious stuff began? He's also seen at the very end jumping up and down when the cops open the door to the cruiser to stick him in, and before that he falls to the ground, and it looks like possibly on purpose. My hunch is that he was trying to avoid going into the back of the cruiser.

I'm not defending the cops for asphyxiating and killing the guy, but i also don't know a reason why Floyd would go from standing at the left side of the vehicle where the door is open and it looks like they're about to put him in the back of the cruiser to face down on the street at the right side of the vehicle, unless he was resisting. I don't see a reason why the cops would just slam him to the ground for no reason.

The cops also seemed to be acting calmly in the above video until it was cut.


Another question to ponder: Why did they move him away from the CCTV camera and then block its view with a squad car?

I'm not defending the cops for asphyxiating and killing the guy, but i also don't know a reason why Floyd would go from standing at the left side of the vehicle where the door is open and it looks like they're about to put him in the back of the cruiser to face down on the street at the right side of the vehicle, unless he was resisting.


Oh sweet summer child.

The cops also seemed to be acting calmly in the above video until it was cut.


They were acting calmly while they were killing him too.
#15094795
Sivad wrote:No, that would be voluntary manslaughter according to Minnesota law:

2019 Minnesota Statutes

609.20 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.

Whoever does any of the following is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 15 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $30,000, or both:

(1) intentionally causes the death of another person in the heat of passion provoked by such words or acts of another as would provoke a person of ordinary self-control under like circumstances, provided that the crying of a child does not constitute provocation;

(2) violates section 609.224(assault in the fifth degree) and causes the death of another or causes the death of another in committing or attempting to commit a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor offense with such force and violence that death of or great bodily harm to any person was reasonably foreseeable, and murder in the first or second degree was not committed thereby;
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.224



609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.


I don't know what it is when cops unintentionally kill someone with excessive force. I just have a hard time believing that cop deliberately killed that guy on camera in front of all those people. This is 2020 post black lives matter, there's no way that cop was thinking he could just kill someone right in front of witnesses and get away with it. He would know that at the very least he would be jeopardizing his career and his pension, he would know that killing that guy would put him in a world of shit.


As I've said before, he didn't have to intend to kill the guy in order to murder him. He only had to intend to hurt him.
#15094798
Saeko wrote:
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.



That perfectly fits what that cop did. You can quibble over whether to call it manslaughter or murder but in this case 25 years seems like justice to me. Fuck that depraved Bad Lieutenant motherfucker.
#15094854
blackjack21 wrote:The are obsessed with race. They just aren't obsessed with color. Brazil is deeply class based.

That's exactly the point, though, that their politics is class-based, not identity-based. They're actually obsessed with class, however, the upper classes just happen to be whiter, while the rest are darker.
#15094863
Rugoz wrote:This issue is that American cops get away with it. If they would go to prison they would think twice about pulling off the shit they do. They're on a powertrip.

The cop in question must be retarded. Why would anyone do this knowing the history of riots and black men dying of asphyxiation? Why would a person throw away his career, pension, and risk prison? He has to be totally nuts. How about his fellow cops? One of them was a black dude.
#15094868
Julian658 wrote:The cop in question must be retarded. Why would anyone do this knowing the history of riots and black men dying of asphyxiation? Why would a person throw away his career, pension, and risk prison? He has to be totally nuts. How about his fellow cops? One of them was a black dude.


You know as well as I do that the cop won't go to prison. The kind of shit American cops get away with is mind-blowing.
#15094880
wat0n wrote:I suspect he'll go charged with manslaughter and a sentence close to the minimum. Would not be unprecedented, at all.

This is an issue of poor training. If I was police chief I would instruct all my officers to use bare minimum force with black people to avoid this sort of issue. BTW, cops also kill plenty of white people. There is an American problem with police training.
#15094887
Julian658 wrote:This is an issue of poor training. If I was police chief I would instruct all my officers to use bare minimum force with black people to avoid this sort of issue. BTW, cops also kill plenty of white people. There is an American problem with police training.


Who the hell needs training to not murder someone by putting a knee on their neck? What normal person needs that kind of training?
#15094892
Saeko wrote:Who the hell needs training to not murder someone by putting a knee on their neck? What normal person needs that kind of training?


It is POLICE BRUTALITY. This happens to white people too. When it happens to whites is POLICE BRUTALITY. When it happens to blacks is racism. And I can see why it is perceived that way.

A homeless man was brutally killed by LA cops, but he was white. So it did not make the national news and there was no rioting. As I said: If I was police chief I would make sure black people are treated with extra kindness to avoid these riots.
#15094893
Unthinking Majority wrote:I agree with Sivad. He didn't intentionally try to kill him. But the cop is ridiculously stupid and negligent for what he did, as are the other officers, especially not checking him after he went unresponsive.

What I think may have happened is that as you can see in the some of the footage, as the cops are bringing him to the cop car to put him the back Floyd falls down, it looks to me like he fell on purpose to delay going into the cruiser because he doesn't want to go off to jail. Shortly after when the cops open the cruiser door to put him in Floyd starts jumping while in cuffs, again a delay tactic most likely.

So I think the cops may have seen Floyd basically doing all sorts of insincere things, and probably saying them too, to avoid arrest. And so once they had him on the ground they probably didn't believe him when he said he couldn't breathe. And when he went unconscious maybe they didn't believe him either and thought it was another faking routine. But that doesn't excuse the cops for not checking him just in case once he went unresponsive. Like in MMA, as soon as you lose consciousness and you're quickly able to breathe again you'll become conscious again. The cops screwed up.


Probably the dumbest post of 2020 so far.
#15094909
Julian658 wrote:It is POLICE BRUTALITY. This happens to white people too. When it happens to whites is POLICE BRUTALITY. When it happens to blacks is racism. And I can see why it is perceived that way.

A homeless man was brutally killed by LA cops, but he was white. So it did not make the national news and there was no rioting. As I said: If I was police chief I would make sure black people are treated with extra kindness to avoid these riots.


Basically it's like this, because whites make up the majority of the population we can statistically anticipate that they will be represented in prisons, crime stats, or violent encounters with police. But a white person in America just needs to make a few adjustments to their behavior to avoid being profiled by police. The same cannot be said about people whose skin colour is also being profiled as a behavior deficit (read: racial bias). If you're a young black male in America you have something like a 1/1000 chance of dying from police violence. Black men in America have to legitimately think overtime about their safety when it comes to police encounters. White people simply don't have to deal with numbers like that.
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