African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 48 - Politics | PoFo

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wat0n wrote:I don't know, is Biden electable

Biden's a safe bet, a safe haven compared to Trump right now, who's just gambling (bluffing) again.

wat0n wrote:The Democratic Party is imploding right now. Its two factions seem to be irreconcilable at this point

How are they irreconcilable? They've clearly reconciled.
Last edited by Beren on 02 Jun 2020 00:31, edited 1 time in total.
Beren wrote:I'd rather expect the GOP to implode, but Trump will certainly implode when he finds himself in a vacuum. :lol:

The is within the realm of possibility with the Covid situation and mismanagement. Current riots are just the cherry on top. The problem is that the GOP was afraid that Trump might do unfixable damage or at least so much damage that it won't be possible to fix it fast. This is materialising slowly to be true. As i said before, i do not think that GOP won't be able to recover from this but Trump will not get elected. I would put his odds 80-20% but with the riots they just went down to 15-85 in my book. Deploying the military might put it back to 80-20 but heck if i know.

Trump supporters will always say that he will win even if he looses a nuclear war to Estonia or something. Partly this comes from the fact that even his supporters had doubts at Trump winning his first term. But he won. He won for a slew of reasons that were analyzable and predictable. His numbers weren't bad on the eve of the election by the way. Most were within margin of error after the Clinton emails story was revealed. But Trump supporters somehow thought that this is a godsend and a miracle. No, far from it. I always considered the emails or some scandal blowing up 1-2 weeks before the vote to be the crucial tiping point that made HIllary loose. Without it, high chance she would have won.

To this degree, Bidens win is predictable. It is several fold more certain than a Trumps win in the previous election. Currently almost everything points to Biden wining be it gifts from god or chances of fate to his own perseverance. It would require a monumental scandal to even put a dent at Bidens chances right now after Covid and the riots. If previously there could have been critique that Biden would have hard time mobilizing the left and the black vote then after this, what will those groups do? Vote for Trump? Not vote at all? Forget about it. They will be steaming hot piles of anger by November.

This might become the largest Democratic victory in US presidential race history if the Democratic party sticks to the solid lines of Trump failing at delivering jobs, economy and not caring about the people. Him being an incompetent tyrant who is sucking the lifeblood from the US freedoms and undermining its institutions. And don't forget about him cowtowing to the corporations and the top 0.1%. He reduced taxes and 90% of benefits went to the top 1% while the rest 99% got around 10-13%. If there was hope that he is anti-establishment then there is no hope now. Trump is one of the most croniest members of the establishment who has not fulfilled his promises, has not delivered on his main points and sided with the 1% against the people. And only after that mention the race politics.
wat0n wrote:All those things are terrible indeed, so are the murders that have resulted from the temporary breakdown in law and order as a result of the rioting. It's not just "some broken windows".

Yes, you made that claim earlier and the evidence you provided to support your claim actually contradicted it.

So, yes, the rioting is irrelevant in comparison to the violence, which is mostly caused by the police.

Furthermore, I think he will at the very least get a second degree manslaughter conviction because Chauvin committed "a culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another", and possibly a third degree murder one as well. Floyd's family can also request an independent autopsy to compare with the coroner's.

This seems unlikely. He is almost certain to get off the third degree murder charge, because the law specifically targets people who indiscriminately endanger others, while the murdering cop deliberately targeted Mr. Floyd, a specific individual.

Meanwhile, the initial autopsy is laying the groundwork for the manslaughter charge to be dismissed because he apparently did not die from choking.

It sure helps to work with the police and attorneys who are supposedly investigating you!

I would say they can represent community participation and in particular can act as a counterweight if the laws on the procedural matters are appropriately adjusted (this should at least include training) and the general trends of less societal racism continue. The added community participation in the process can help to actually legitimize the process, as a Chilean I assume you are aware that there the process is actually based on the opposite (which also has pros and cons), and that there is a legitimacy issue there that's substantially more severe than in the US.

I doubt this, primary because the cases almost never even get to trial.

It should be noted, however, that the 200 figure includes people from all races. And this is important too:

Why would they be charged if they haven't broken the law? Generally speaking there is no criminal liability for law enforcement if they use deadly force as part of the legitimate exercise of their functions, be it in the USA or abroad.

It's not like there are several instances when the use of deadly force by law enforcement is perfectly legitimate, am I right?

There is only one important point:

Are all these hundreds of killings justified? Maybe, but that is almost certainly not true. Cops are not magically perfect beings.

If they are not all justified, it means there is a non-zero number of unjustified cop killings.

And the percentage of unjustified cop killings that have gone unpunished is 100%.

I can't tell if this is trolling or not :lol:

Either way, the US has also had periods of police strikes (rare, but they have happened) where this dream has come to fruition. And no, it hasn't been more peaceful, orderly or safe than when they have been performing their normal duties. You may want to read about Boston's police strike of 1919 or Baltimore's strike of 1974. They led to looting in a manner that's similar to what's going on now, and also led (in the former) to the use of posse comitatus, who were harsher in dealing with crime and more trigger happy than the police.

Please provide evidence for this claim. Tahnks.

I don't think we can possibly know what would have Derek Chauvin done if George Floyd had been White or if he'd been there at all or if the prosecutors would have charged differently, but I do agree that either way it is a terrible crime indeed. And I think it will most definitely be punished accordingly, at least for manslaughter (and hopefully for third degree murder).

And yes, my comment about your "Marxism" stands: It's a great example of its decline.

Do you know of any white people in the USA who have been killed for possibly having a counterfeit bill?

I, as a white person, have had counterfeit bills that I (unknowingly) tried to use. The people involved simply looked at it, laughed, and pointed out to me how I really should have known.

I did not end up on the ground, pleading for my last breath.
Beren wrote:How are they irreconcilable? They've clearly reconciled.

Are they? I mean, the electorate in the far left of the spectrum is currently demonstrating against Democrats currently governing cities. If it doesn't implode, then at the very least it's been deserted by that part of the political spectrum, which isn't as small as it used to be (just like the far right part of the American political spectrum has grown in size).

Would they vote for Biden to oust Trump, or they would see both as being part of the same system? And if the democratic Governors or majors decide to be a lot tougher, would they still vote to oust Trump even if that means having Biden?

@JohnRawls I would agree if the protests stopped now. But if they keep dragging on, independent voters' priorities may change and behavior now may become the largest determinant of the election. Law and order was not really at the top of the agenda until now.

As for the GOP: It is currently showing a large degree of internal cohesion (even if it's just because they wanted to ride on Trump's victory) and its base is pretty much on the same page as well. Of course, were Trump to lose, things would rapidly change but as far as this electoral contest goes, I think this shouldn't be his concern.

As for race relations, they obviously aren't good right now and I doubt the GOP has much African American support (as usual) but throughout his administration he's been more focused on antagonizing Latinos than African Americans. Of course, it's entirely possible that Latinos may heavily increase their participation for the upcoming election (they have the largest room for growth IIRC), but who knows.

Anyway, if I had to guess, Trump's strategy even before this was to fire his base up and cause trouble for Democratic Governors and majors. Now he is clearly adding trying to split the Democratic base to the mix, he doesn't even need their votes - he only needs to have them stay at home. I hope he fails, that the far-left wises up and starts calming down but if they were so cunning they would have waited until after November to protest. Biden would be way more receptive to their concerns if he were President than Trump, and Biden was showing to have a very decent chance of winning before this.

He starts talking about the fire that was set at 3:27.

Police Chief Breaks Down After Describing How Richmond Leftist Rioters Torched Home with Children inside Then Blocked Fire Department (VIDEO)

The chief of the Richmond, Virginia, police department told reporters Sunday that Black Lives Matter and antifa rioters set fire to a multi-family home with children inside and then blocking access for firefighters to get through to save the children.

Richmond Police Chief William Smith broke down while speaking about the horrible burning deaths of a children after their occupied building was torched by rioters.

The chief of the Richmond, Virginia, police department said Sunday that rioters set fire to a multi-family home with a child inside while blocking access for firefighters to get through to save the child.

Richmond Police Chief William Smith: “One incident that is particularly poignant, that truly illustrates the seriousness of the issues we’re facing. Last night protesters intentionally set fire to an occupied building on [West] Broad Street. This is not the only occupied building that has been set fire to in the last two days. But they prohibited us from getting on the scene. We had to force our way to make a clear path for the fire department. The protesters intercepted the fire apparatus several blocks away with vehicles and blocked that fire department’s access to the structure fire. Inside that home was a child.”

The chief of the Richmond, Virginia, police department broke down while describing the horrific event in his city.
Don’t expect the mainstream media to carry this story.

For the record, police on the scene were able to save the children.

You might have a point IF Trump wasn't partially responsible for what is happening. The problem with your argument is that any sane person understands that Trump is at fault for the riots on many levels. So electing him will make law and order even harder. So if you care about law and order then voting for Biden is the way to go because he is actually trying to solve the situation or score some popularity points. While Trump just run to the bunker and now used police to do a glory walk while threatening everyone with miltiary force.

There is a historical example of Mark Anthony who pretty much did the same. But was hated for it and got fired by Ceasar because it was fucking petty to not do anything while he could and think that people/senators/aristocracy will flock to him for help to restore law and order. Trump inaction was one of the largest causes of this shit. Compare it to Obama. Obama would be first thing infront of a podium giving speach on how to not escalate the violence and proper trial to be conducted etc.

May be Trump was slow to react, may be there was no ill intent. A fuck up is still a fuck up.
Protestors for justice in the case of George Floyd are righteous. Rioters who are terrorizing people, looting, burning, beating up people, vandalizing, etc... Are human garbage, devils, traitors and deserving of execution on the spot, hung from the nearest tree or lamp-post.

Not least of the reason why being because it has nothing to do with George Floyd and his murder, and everything to do with Anarchism and a destructive and insane Nihilism that lurks at the very core of Liberalism.

Anybody who doesn't see this clearly has a burned out conscience and is morally blind and corrupt as a responsible citizen and even as a human being.
JohnRawls wrote:The problem is that the GOP was afraid that Trump might do unfixable damage or at least so much damage that it won't be possible to fix it fast.

The problem is that the plebs seem to hate Trump so much that they can't stop intensely rioting against him, which is bad for business, and deploying the military against them doesn't sound good as well, and it could easily turn out to be the unfixable damage you mention, so Trump seems to stand in a drift of sand and they'll have to detach themselves from him somehow. Trump's a great gambler, but gambling doesn't pay off in the long term, posing as a resolved commander-in-chief is a cheap bluff in this case anyway.

wat0n wrote:I mean, the electorate

I don't mean the electorate, I mean the party itself, and the party itself seems solid.
Well the autopsy is back and the cop is toast.

The GOP is truly staggering along. It lost me and I was a lifelong conservative republican. Unfortunately the republicans have attempted to rebrand racism, xenophobia, homophobia, and white supremacy as conservative traits. Traditionally this was not true. The Republican Party membership is down 7% since 1994 representing 26% of the population. Democratic Party membership is the same as it was in 1994. 33%.
The number of independent voters identifying or leaning toward the Republican Party is falling, down 2% since 1994. Democratic party up 4% in the same time. So the democratic party is not only taking voters from the republicans it is getting a few from the ranks of independents as well. So yes. Slowly but surely the republican party is dying.

Can Trump win? Yes he can. He is dominating the news and has the news organizations right where he wants them.

Racism in the US goes very deep. This death plays directly into Trump's hand. Will people blame him? No. Will they like his heated rhetoric? The ones who would ever consider voting for him will. The only way to stop him now, and it would stop him in his tracks, would be to cut off his twitter feed. Seriously.

I will say this again and again. Until sergeants, lieutenants, captains and chiefs start to lose their jobs swiftly over these incidents, they will not stop.
"MINNEAPOLIS -- A medical examiner on Monday classified George Floyd's death as a homicide, saying his heart stopped as police restrained him and compressed his neck, in a widely seen video that has sparked protests across the nation.

"Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)," the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office said in a news release. Cause of death was listed as "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."

Under "other significant conditions" it said Floyd suffered from heart disease and hypertension, and listed fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use. Those factors were not listed under cause of death.

Contrast that to:

"Both the medical examiner and the family's experts differed from the description in last week's criminal complaint against the officer of how Floyd died. The complaint, citing preliminary findings from the medical examiner, listed the effects of being restrained, along with underlying health issues and potential intoxicants in Floyd's system."
Murder. Plain and simple.

Independent autopsy and Minnesota officials say George Floyd's death was homicide
Experts hired by George Floyd's family and the Hennepin County Medical Examiner have concluded his death was a homicide, but they differ on what caused it.

The independent autopsy says Floyd died of "asphyxiation from sustained pressure" when his neck and back were compressed by Minneapolis police officers during his arrest last week. The pressure cut off blood flow to his brain, that autopsy determined.

But the medical examiner's office, in its report also released Monday, said that the cause of death is "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression." Cardiopulmonary arrest means Floyd's heart failed.

The medical examiner made no mention of asphyxiation.

The Hennepin County release says heart disease was an issue; the independent examiner didn't find that. ... index.html

annatar1914 wrote:Rioters who are terrorizing people, looting, burning, beating up people, vandalizing, etc... Are human garbage, devils, traitors and deserving of execution on the spot, hung from the nearest tree or lamp-post.

No need for all those words when you can just say 'cops' or 'the police'.

Not least of the reason why being because it has nothing to do with George Floyd and his murder, and everything to do with Anarchism and a destructive and insane Nihilism that lurks at the very core of Liberalism.

I think George Floyd's murder was the catalyst for this uprising against vicious capitalism.

Godstud wrote:Murder. Plain and simple.

We all saw with our own eyes what was the cruel murder of George Floyd.
Donna wrote:1312

Overgeneralization. Plus hiding the meaning behind numbers is kinda similar to 1488 and the Trumpers. Meaning that for some reason you are afraid to say it out loud which should beg the question why should it be said in the first place.
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