African-American Asphyxiated by Police in Minneapolis - Page 57 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

Moderator: PoFo Today's News Mods

#15096822
noemon wrote:The facts are obvious:

Image



I hear you but blacks commit much more crime per capita. Please don't call me racist for stating facts. The black community is the most abused in the USA, however, their leaders do nothing to counsel young men.
Image
#15096824
I already predicted your racist argument and have already addressed it:

When confronted with these facts, racists then blame "Black criminality(such as jaywalking, smoking a spliff & speeding)" by pointing out the prison population without ever of course putting these data into perspective:

Prison Policy Report wrote:“Other notable stats
Drug offences make up roughly 46 percent of all sentences.
Homicide and related offences make up 3.2 percent of all sentences.
Immigration offences make up 7.5 percent of all sentences.
The US has more correctional facilities than any other country on Earth.

Louisiana is “the prison capital of the world”
In Louisiana, one in 86 adults is currently in prison. 53 percent are housed in local, for-profit private prisons, which are usually insufficiently staffed and therefore more dangerous than state-run facilities. The situation is even worse for minorities – one in 14 adults is serving a prison sentence, with one in seven currently in prison, on probation or out on parole. Louisiana claims the harshest prison system in the US, with many non-violent offenders serving lengthy sentences for relatively minor crimes (minor drug possession can land an arrestee a life sentence).

...

The high costs of low-level offenses
Most justice-involved people in the U.S. are not accused of serious crimes; more often, they are charged with misdemeanors or non-criminal violations. Yet even low-level offenses, like technical violations of probation and parole, can lead to incarceration and other serious consequences. Rather than investing in community-driven safety initiatives, cities and counties are still pouring vast amounts of public resources into the processing and punishment of these minor offenses.

Probation & parole violations and “holds” lead to unnecessary incarceration
Often overlooked in discussions about mass incarceration are the various “holds” that keep people behind bars for administrative reasons. A common example is when people on probation or parole are jailed for violating their supervision, either for a new crime or a “technical violation.” If a parole or probation officer suspects that someone has violated supervision conditions, they can file a “detainer” (or “hold”), rendering that person ineligible for release on bail. For people struggling to rebuild their lives after conviction or incarceration, returning to jail for a minor infraction can be profoundly destabilizing. The national data do not exist to say exactly how many people are in jail because of probation or parole violations or detainers, but initial evidence shows that these account for over one-third of some jail populations. This problem is not limited to local jails, either; in 2019, the Council of State Governments found that 1 in 4 people in state prisons are incarcerated as a result of supervision violations.

Misdemeanors: Minor offenses with major consequences
The “massive misdemeanor system” in the U.S. is another important but overlooked contributor to overcriminalization and mass incarceration. For behaviors as benign as jaywalking or sitting on a sidewalk, an estimated 13 million misdemeanor charges sweep droves of Americans into the criminal justice system each year (and that’s excluding civil violations and speeding). These low-level offenses account for over 25% of the daily jail population nationally, and much more in some states and counties.

Misdemeanor charges may sound like small potatoes, but they carry serious financial, personal, and social costs, especially for defendants but also for broader society, which finances the processing of these court cases and all of the unnecessary incarceration that comes with them. And then there are the moral costs: People charged with misdemeanors are often not appointed counsel and are pressured to plead guilty and accept a probation sentence to avoid jail time. This means that innocent people routinely plead guilty, and are then burdened with the many collateral consequences that come with a criminal record, as well as the heightened risk of future incarceration for probation violations. A misdemeanor system that pressures innocent defendants to plead guilty seriously undermines American principles of justice.


The principle of racism remains the same systemic denial, systemic victim-blaming and institutional discrimination.

A whopping 46% of the prison population of the US is in prison for drug-related offences, a 1/3 of those for possession only.
A whopping 25% of the prison population is in for misdemeanours that are not even jail-able offences in the vast majority(if not all) of the democratic countries of this world.

When you take out the population that should not be in prison at all, the statistics tell a much different story. A story that for serious crimes, like shootings, murder & rape, the Black and White population are on par with each other. This is a story of systemic racism in a country that goes out of her way to put poor Black people in prison and under the boot of a system that keeps them in perpetual chains instead of lifting them up.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/st ... fenses.jsp

Also your "graph" has no source, where did you get it from, r/racism?
#15096837
Julian658 wrote:I hear you but blacks commit much more crime per capita. Please don't call me racist for stating facts. The black community is the most abused in the USA, however, their leaders do nothing to counsel young men.
Image

"Blacks are the most abused in the USA, however, they are asking for it". :lol:
#15096844
Pants-of-dog wrote:I have already discussed why I think that the DA et al are trying to get the murderer off.

You can have faith that the police will proceed in good faith against one of their own, but the ongoing brutality of the last few days suggest against such faith.


Yes, you did, but it seems Minnesota Courts haven't used that standard that there needs to be no specific victim, but have used a standard under which an extreme negligence would get the perpetrator a murder charge - be it from shooting without looking (that's what got Noor the third degree murder charge) or killing someone while drunk driving. I would say a case can be made for third degree murder since there is official federal advice against pressuring the neck, the Minneapolis Police Department doesn't advice using that maneuver and both bystanders and Floyd himself were telling Chauvin to stop.

Second degree murder would be different since it applies whenever the murder is intentional but not premeditated. While it cannot be ruled out, specifying intent here is harder, although not impossible. If it turns out they knew each other, I'd go for it.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Because it does not acknowledge the choking as cause of death. It cites heart problems and the stress of the arrest, as well as the possibility of drugs.

The cops can claim that his heart stopped from the stress of being a gangster being caught.


Did you read the press release? Those are not listed as the cause of death - the examiner's report states that was homicide caused by the choking, and those are just listed as "additional information". The only known major difference with the report by Floyd's family is that their report states he died from asphyxiation, while the examiner's report states he died from cardiac arrest due to the pressure on his neck (choking) and other parts of his body (he had 3 cops on him). This last possibility is not unrealistic which you should be able to find by reading this thread further.

If anything, the examiner's report could even be used to press charges against the other two cops. But if George Floyd was killed by asphyxiation due to choking, it becomes harder to do so. Not impossible, but harder.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Why has almost every single unjustified killing by police not been taken to court and convicted?


Because grand juries have a tendency to acquit. It's not the only reason but a major one, and amenable to cultural and ideological context.

Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, constant demands to keep police accountable have helped.

This does not change the fact that systemic racism has been a large part of the ongoing police brutality and why cops get away with it.


Right, and since those demands have improved the situation it is thus fair to say that the problem has been on its way to be solved since 2014 and BLM. Why would anyone deny this and pretend no progress has been made since then? Why would anyone expect the issue to become solved overnight when much of the solution requires quite a bit of time to be implemented, including legal precedents on the penalties for illegal use of force by the police?

Pants-of-Dog wrote:It is routine everywhere.


Among people who were unarmed? The law does give a fair amount of latitude for legitimate police killings, but those aren't all that different from what one may see outside the US. I somehow doubt an European policeman would be prosecuted if someone shot him, another officer or bystanders and he killed the gunner while returning fire.

Among armed people, well, we'd need to see what happened in a case by case basis. But regardless of one's race, it's reasonable to expect a harsher police reaction if you are carrying a gun while interacting with them. And as you should be aware, the US does have the 2nd Amendment.

Pants-of-Dog wrote:Notice how the vast majority of killings were by the police.


Actually the majority of killings were done by volunteers and soldiers recruited for taking on police roles during the Boston strike, which shouldn't be surprising: Neither is properly trained for policing roles.

https://www.bpstrike1919.org/timeline/

Pants-of-Dog wrote:This is just getting silly.

There is no way to pretend that a white.persin would end up killed by police for this even if the white guy deliberately stole a few things.


@blackjack21 posted an example of a White guy getting killed for counterfeiting, although it's not exactly the same it does show that Whites can be killed by police for (resisting arrest for doing) that sort of thing.

I also think you didn't answer the question: Would a Canadian store clerk call the cops on you if you inadvertently paid counterfeit money and then left without returning the "purchased" product? My guess is that the answer is yes, but they would deal with you differently.
#15096851
I think the PTSD thing rings true. The US is traumatized by its past and shit like this just brings it all back.

Anyway, I’m starting to tune out. It’s quite unbelievable. The Arab Spring, Hong Kong, American riots. The states apparatus is never on our side. We are doomed.
#15096870
@Political Interest , you said;


It does not matter the ideology, it is misanthropy.


Yes, these people lack a certain humanity.


Far left and far right are two sides of the same coin. Over the last year or so I have come to realise that Bolshevism was of two types, the far left Marxist internationalist type of the far right fascist/National Socialist type. They both need each other.


It's been a similar process with me, seeing this Bolshevism for what it is. Hitler read Stalin's ''Foundations of Leninism'', and everyone avidly studied Lenin and the October Revolution of 1917, while Lenin admired Mussolini and wished he'd return to the Socialist fold, believing Mussolini the only revolutionary capable of taking Italy.


I have read post after post of his where he has condemned fascism and the Axis powers, to a much greater extent than many other posters.



Or maybe it's just you who doesn't understand. I understand perfectly well.


Thank you my friend. Fact is, they know i'm right about the dichotomy between George Floyd's murder and the rioting by the scum of the earth. Few are truly so morally and ethically challenged as to not see the spirit of destructive nihilism behind all this.
#15096872
annatar1914 wrote:Thank you my friend. Fact is, they know i'm right about the dichotomy between George Floyd's murder and the rioting by the scum of the earth. Few are truly so morally and ethically challenged as to not see the spirit of destructive nihilism behind all this.


Few are so incompetent, biased and indeed ethically and morally challenged not to see that the riots are being orchestrated by agent provocateurs to undermine and delegitimise the right of the protestors. Once the provocateurs create the chaos, then useful idiots take over.
#15096874
noemon wrote:Few are so incompetent and biased not to see that the riots are being orchestrated by agent provocateurs to undermine and delegitimise the right of the protestors. Once the provocateurs create the chaos, then useful idiots take over.


I'm speaking to the nihilistic motivations of the looters and arsonists, the attackers of innocents and the vandals, the forces of anti-civilization. I know this was well organized; crisis, reaction, solution...

Of course the barbarians are being used.
#15096875
annatar1914 wrote:I'm speaking to the nihilistic motivations of the looters and arsonists, the attackers of innocents and the vandals, the forces of anti-civilization. I know this was well organized; crisis, reaction, solution...

Of course the barbarians are being used.


So you are being outraged by the handful of useful idiots but not by the agent provocateurs creating the chaos, not by the police abusing your fellow citizens, not by your President fueling the fire of discord.

But others are the "morally and ethically challenged"...while you have your priorities straight... Right. :roll:
#15096878
So you are being outraged by the handful of useful idiots but not by the agent provocateurs creating the chaos, not by the police abusing your fellow citizens, not by your President fueling the fire of discord.


Gigantic Strawman :roll:

I am outraged by the fools, especially by the fools who consider themselves on the ''Left'' whose core belief seems to be Onanism more than anything else. There's no ''there'', there.


I know that the Fascists are behind them, and Liberalism in general.

But others are the "morally and ethically challenged"...while you have your priorities straight... Right. :roll:


Laugh and scoff all you want, because you know in your heart that these pawns are easily led for a reason, making them easily disposable but useful tools to the enemy. I do get angry that people can be so easily fooled, and that includes most people I read on this forum.

Well, experience is an excellent teacher.
#15096879
annatar1914 wrote:Gigantic Strawman :roll:
I am outraged by the fools, especially by the fools who consider themselves on the ''Left'' whose core belief seems to be Onanism more than anything else. There's no ''there'', there.
I know that the Fascists are behind them, and Liberalism in general.
Laugh and scoff all you want, because you know in your heart that these pawns are easily led for a reason, making them easily disposable but useful tools to the enemy. I do get angry that people can be so easily fooled, and that includes most people I read on this forum.
Well, experience is an excellent teacher.


I am not laughing at all, I am quite concerned that your focus is at a handful of useful idiots rather than the actual causes for the anarchy. That is what is morally challenging. I am even more concerned that you fail to see the irony of your own arguments while trying to call everyone who does not abide by your incorrect presumptions as "morally challenged".

This is not a strawman at all and in any way shape or form. It is a direct and to the point counter-argument to your statement.
  • 1
  • 55
  • 56
  • 57
  • 58
  • 59
  • 165

Without extraordinary interventions such as lockdo[…]

It's just a picture of a young Republican. I don'[…]

End of maduro - hopefully.

My questions would be: 1. Why support a System t[…]

Election 2020

@blackjack21 I never said that Trump is always w[…]