[Donna]

So I'm a total garbage person and a racist and a troll because i'm pointing out that Floyd committed crimes and that he's responsible for his actions?

In what fucking moral universe is getting choked to death taking responsibility for his actions?

When you're losing an argument you lash out in anger and start with the profane name-calling and throwing tantrums. That's what toddlers do. Grow up.

At this point we're not even really debating, I'm simply taking extreme moral umbrage with the bile and cringe that you are posting.

Addiction isn't a crime. Possession/use of fentanyl and meth is, as is using counterfeit bills. I don't think small possession of those things should be legal, but they should be decriminalized. Until they are, ya they are crimes.

Being high on fentanyl isn't a crime you nerd.

People are responsible for their actions. Do you know how you get addicted to fentanyl and meth in the first place? You make the decision to try it for the first time. I feel bad for the guy for being murdered and for having a life so shitty that he needs to take drugs to feel happy.

Like I said, you're a cunt.

[Pants-of-dog]

Weeks ago in the Youtube hate-speech thread u wouldn't answer my questions.

I do not remember this.

The questions were probably irrelevant or loaded. Those are the two most common reasons I ignore questions.

He isn't guilty of anything unless a judge or jury decides. A cop detains, arrests, or fines, they don't convict, because they're 1000x dumber and less educated than lawyers and judges and don't know the law. I assume he'd be charged if he was murdered, then it's up to the courts.

Cops are only allowed to arrest people if they are being charged with a crime. Mr, Floyd did not commit a crime, so there was no reason for him to be arrested.

Nor is there a reasonable argument that he was going to commit a crime or violence.

Doesn't matter now, he's dead.

It matters because he is dead.

[skinster]

This thread has recorded police brutality over the last week and it is never-ending, good gods ACAB

Click on it and scroll down if you have the stomach for it

[Unthinking Majority]

:lol: In what fucking moral universe is getting choked to death taking responsibility for his actions?

The strawmen inside your own brain?

I never said that, in fact I said the opposite, so STFU and learn some reading comprehension.

[Donna]

The strawmen inside your own brain?

I never said that, in fact I said the opposite, so STFU and learn some reading comprehension.

No, motherfucker, you don't get to worm out of the real world implications of your reasoning. It's not my fucking fault that you're too dumb to recognize those implications on your own. Taking responsibility? What the fuck is that supposed to mean in the context of George Floyd?

[Unthinking Majority]

[quote="Pants-of-dog"]
Cops are only allowed to arrest people if they are being charged with a crime. Mr, Floyd did not commit a crime, so there was no reason for him to be arrested.

Nor is there a reasonable argument that he was going to commit a crime or violence./quote]

Go get high tomorrow and pay a store with counterfeit bills and then don't give the merch back and tell me what happens. I'm assuming most people would end up in cuffs.

[Drlee]

This would now open a few questions:

1) Was Chauvin trained in the technique?
2) Was George Floyd actively resisting? If so, was an unconscious neck restraint justified under the policy?

This and the entire discussion about neck restraint is simply bullshit. This is not what the cop was doing. Besides. They obviously continued restraint of this human being without monitoring his condition and long beyond the time when he was not moving at all because he was fucking dead.

Understand youngsters that they were kneeling on this guy for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. Got that? The department policy is irrelevant. The crowd was shouting for them to stop and that they guy was dying. They ignored it even though they were on camera and knew they were on camera. This is premeditated murder at worst and third degree murder at the very least. Don't even mention felony assault. So stop being barracks lawyers. You are not qualified.

As a conservative I am appalled at the utter disregard for our treasured constitutional rights being exhibited every day on national television by our police. It is disgusting. They have made the US look like a banana republic. IT is time we take all military equipment away from the police. It is time we prohibit any federal military entity from transferring a single piece of military equipment to the police. IT is time we start paying attention to the constitution again. But sadly Trumps intellectually deficient supporters will not see this at all.

A bit if good news is that not only Trump's numbers are falling but other republicans are tanking with him.

A FOX NEWS poll today showed Trump behind 11 points in one battleground state that he carried in the last election. He is losing my home state of Arizona. He is loosing Ohio, long a bright red state badly. There is a long time before the election and Trump can count on a lot of very stupid people to come out for him. But right now things are looking pretty bleak.

In the "Ignorant Comment of the Day" Pence said that the campaign was looking for ways to appeal to black voters. You can't make this shit up.

[Pants-of-dog]

Go get high tomorrow and pay a store with counterfeit bills and then don't give the merch back and tell me what happens. I'm assuming most people would end up in cuffs.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/g ... g-incident

Brandon Bochenski says he has moved on from 2001 counterfeiting incident

Candidate for Grand Forks mayor was 18 at the time.

Written By: Joe Bowen | Feb 1st 2020 - 2pm.

Brandon Bochenski, the hockey player-turned-developer-turned-political hopeful, said he’s not hiding from a 2001 counterfeiting incident.

The 37-year-old candidate for Grand Forks mayor didn’t mention it when he spoke to the Herald earlier this week. He said on Friday that he doesn’t readily bring it up, either.

In 2001, Bochenski and a friend were charged with aggravated forgery, a felony, after they printed about 120 sheets of counterfeit U.S. dollars. Court records and contemporary news articles indicate Bochenski pleaded guilty to those charges in Anoka County, Minn., court in February 2001. Despite the plea, the candidate is not a convicted felon. He served 40 hours of community service, but no jail time, and the charges were dismissed in 2003.

“I was 18 years old,” he said Friday. “We got hold of a printer and a scanner and we did like what normal kids do, causing trouble, and we printed out ... we tried to spend it. We got caught.”

Bochenski said he thinks he and his friend tried to spend the counterfeit money at a gas station, and employees detected the counterfeits when they tried to deposit the money at a bank.

“I served my time. I learned a lot from it and moved on,” he said. “Not hiding from it. I certainly did it.”

Searches of Minnesota and North Dakota court records indicate that the only other mark on Bochenski’s record is a failure to pay a parking ticket in 2003, when he played for the UND hockey team. He said that’s the extent of his criminal history.

After UND, Bochenski played for several years in the NHL and AHL. Court records for each of the states he’s played in were either not readily available or searches of them did not indicate further criminal history.

Well, I am white, so I could actually counterfeit money, try to spend it, get caught, do no time at all, and still run for office.

[Saeko]

In the "Ignorant Comment of the Day" Pence said that the campaign was looking for ways to appeal to black voters. You can't make this shit up.

If Republicans appealed to black voters the way they do to their white voters, they would be the Black Panthers.

[skinster]

The American republic of white supremacy
The United States is a country built on the genocide of natives and theft of their lands and homes, and on the backs of Africans abducted from their homes and brought to the "Land of the Slaves" as property.

Yet, rather than repent their sins, many white Americans - the heirs and ongoing beneficiaries of this legacy - claim, and force non-white Americans to claim alongside them, that their country is the "land of the free and the home of the brave", as the US national anthem famously insists, though the more accurate "land of the slave and the home of the brave" rhymes much better.

Indeed, the racist lyrics of the national anthem, written in 1814, have ignited a debate in recent years over its support of slavery, even and especially when it alleges that the US is a “free” country.

White-supremacist 'democracy'
Notions of freedom, liberty and independence for the white male colonists of the 13 American colonies (whether they were slave-owning or not) essentially meant little more than safeguarding their property (including slaves) and businesses from the encroachment of Britain and its taxation, which to them seemed like a form of “slavery”.

During the Revolutionary War, Virginia, the two Carolinas and Georgia offered white volunteers land and slaves for joining the revolution to establish white-supremacist “democracy”. Black slaves were conscripted to fight for their white masters’ “freedom” from the British. Still, many other white colonists, called Loyalists, supported the British against American independence; around 100,000 of them fled the US as refugees, and took with them their 15,000 slaves.

Thousands of slaves joined the British army, who promised them freedom if they fought on the side of the British. They, along with the white Loyalists and their slaves, were evacuated on British ships to the Nova Scotia colony and to Britain after the British defeat in 1783.

Soon, the British decided that the best solution to their own freed blacks and the freed American slaves was to have them colonise West Africa and Christianise the African “heathens”. This is how Sierra Leone was born as a black settler-colony by the British at the end of the 18th century.

Back in the newly independent US, its slave-owning Protestant “founding fathers” began to hatch their own new projects of what to do with freed blacks. The idea of “returning” them to Africa had emerged in some publications in the early 18th century, but the idea dominated discussions of slavery and race in the US between the revolution and the civil war.

The deportation of free blacks was supported by many slave owners and anti-slavery northern conservatives, as well as Protestant evangelical missionaries and prominent politicians, including US Presidents Jefferson, Monroe, and later President Lincoln. In 1816, the American Colonization Society was founded to arrange for the deportation of freed blacks. This is how the black settler-colony of Liberia was founded in the 1820s.

Battery of racist laws
Though some freed blacks came to support this effort, most black intellectuals and activists, including Frederick Douglass, opposed black colonisation in West Africa and saw it correctly as a way of deporting free black people while maintaining slavery at home. Others advocated for emigration to Haiti, which had freed itself a few years earlier from French slavery and colonialism and invited the enslaved blacks of the US to flee to its shores.

Abraham Lincoln, lionised in nationalist US history by white liberals and conservatives alike as a defender of blacks, insisted in 1854 that “my first impulse would be to free all the slaves and send them to Liberia - to their own native land”, were it not for the high costs involved.

As late as 1858, the anti-slavery, yet anti-racial equality Lincoln insisted that “what I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races”. In 1861, as president, he urged Congress to find funds to aid black emigration and colonisation, and suggested they acquire a new territory for the purpose. One Washington newspaper suggested that the proposed black settler-colony be named “Lincolnia”.

While the slave system was updated after the civil war in the southern US with Jim Crow laws, in the north, a battery of racist laws and institutional practices governed the lives of free blacks. In housing, education, work and social services, let alone the criminal justice system, blacks were persecuted and targeted for discrimination.

In the wake of World War II, white-only towns called “the suburbs” were built, and regulations for good education depended on property taxes in “school districts”, which ensured excellent schools for the white middle class and substandard ones for poor blacks.

Discrimination and mass imprisonment
After the massive black revolt, known as the civil rights movement, erupted, new practices would be introduced to end the semblance of discrimination, including busing students from their school districts to others to curtail the apartheid system of segregation. It was not only southern racist whites who opposed busing; so did northern “liberal” whites across northern cities, including Boston in the mid-1970s, and Joe Biden, who led an effort in the Senate to end busing in Delaware.

While discriminatory labour laws had to be scrapped, the racist system was able to maintain itself through granting privileges to “seniority” on the job, which exclusively benefited whites, as was done with the “seniority” exemption to Title VII of the Civil Rights Acts.

The post-war GI bill extended benefits to all Americans, but in practice it excluded blacks, while the exclusionary racist covenants for home ownership prevented blacks from living in white neighbourhoods. This was in addition to massive discrimination in university and college admissions.

After the assassinations and mass imprisonment of black leaders and activists in the 1960s and early 1970s, the New Jim Crow - a system of brutal policing, punitive welfare and mass incarceration - was institutionalised to replace the old Jim Crow that had just been dismantled. It was not only supported by white conservatives and liberals, but also by the small elite of middle-class blacks elected to political office across local and federal government.

The new black politicians, what the online news magazine Black Agenda Report accurately calls the Black "misleadership", would reap the benefits of the racist US system while selling it to the Black electorate as a “free country” with some racial problems that could be remedied within the “democratic” system.

This background propelled Barack Obama to the forefront of political power in the 21st century.

Embracing 'soft' racism
Celebrated as the first black president, Obama has been a hero to white liberals who always welcome black officials who parrot the “soft” racism of white liberals by embracing the rhetoric but not the politics of the civil rights movement.

He sang the praises of the slave-owning white supremacist “founding fathers” in his inaugural speech and many times afterwards, and consistently praised today’s “hard-working Americans” (the racist US code for white people, as opposed to “lazy” blacks), chastised absent black fathers (perhaps forgetting that most of them were languishing in racist prisons), and admonished black university graduates, while his Department of Justice did not indict a single white cop for killing black people during his eight years in office, including most famously the white cop who choked Eric Garner to death in 2014; his last words, like those of George Floyd, were “I can’t breathe”.

The white police killer of an unarmed black 18-year-old, Michael Brown, a few weeks later in Ferguson, Missouri, was also not indicted. The Ferguson uprising erupted on Obama’s watch, but true to the expectations of the class of corporate blacks and black politicians, many of whom are collaborators with the US white supremacist system, he brought no justice to black Americans.

US President Donald Trump did not bring about the country’s white supremacy, even if he celebrates its “greatness”, which he wants to restore to its olden days of glory. Indeed, Trump is no more than an heir to the country built by George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D Roosevelt, John F Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

The path towards change
That Obama has not had his fill of exploiting the Black electorate while bathing in wealthy luxury on yachts and in his new $12m mansion on Martha’s Vineyard, is the latest symptom of his scoundrelish behaviour all along. Obama’s new plan is not to let the ongoing Black American uprising go to waste. It seems that he wants to impose his wife, Michelle, on the American people as future president for eight more years of Obama rule, or longer if she is chosen as Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden’s vice president.

Obama’s declaration this week condemning the current uprising and urging people to believe in the country’s racist justice system is hardly unique. We see it echoed by others among the black "misleadership", including the black mayors of Atlanta and Washington. Such calls are celebrated by white liberals and the US media.

Unless white Americans and the black misleadership express utter shame about the history and present of their white supremacist republic and its founding fathers - and repudiate the racialised social, political and economic privileges and differential rights it grants them - nothing will change.

Until white Americans, liberals and conservatives alike, join African Americans, Native Americans, Latinx Americans, Asian Americans, and all people of colour in replacing this white supremacist system with an anti-racist republic, politically and economically, the revolts of African Americans and their allies against the American Republic of White Supremacy will continue for the foreseeable future.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/g ... -supremacy

[XogGyux]

A FOX NEWS poll today showed Trump behind 11 points in one battleground state that he carried in the last election. He is losing my home state of Arizona. He is loosing Ohio, long a bright red state badly. There is a long time before the election and Trump can count on a lot of very stupid people to come out for him. But right now things are looking pretty bleak.

I won't believe it until I see it. We have been down this road before. Everyone has to vote, he needs to lose with the widest margin possible if we can make it 100million to 1, one being his own vote for himself I would be a very happy guy.

[skinster]

[wat0n]

I assume that charging cops who are black and recent immigrants is a lot easier for the union to accept.

Because of systemic racism.

Indeed, it is a possibility as well. But I doubt they'd be able to put this under the rug given what's happened.

Not with the right charges. They, as I already showed, had set it up to get the murderer off the hook. And almost certainly colluded with the medical examiner.

Why has none of that been questioned?

And I've shown that your reasoning is highly questionable and based on a rather particular interpretation of the medical examiner's report. Indeed, the AG of Minnesota decided to uphold the other charges as far as I'm aware - so they are trying to cover their asses in case intent becomes hard to establish.

But as it stands now, cops with a history of violence can use this, with the reasonable expectation that they will use it unwisely and unnecessarily risk the lives of citizens.

Indeed, at least that's what happened in this case. And in that case measures will need to be taken.

The same public that elected Trump, re-elected Bush, and continues to ignore systemic racism?

And also the same public that elected Obama twice. It's almost as if voters' attitudes on race are not stable over time but depend on other variables rather than the Swiss-knife explanation of systemic racism.

Interestingly, you skipped him.

Structural poverty and socio-economic segregation are also probably correlated with structural racism.

Of course, and that makes it hard to differentiate between both. Perhaps a more productive way to approach this would be to use a more granular dataset.

And if there were a time effect, we would probably see that this sort of police impunity for killings and brutality would reduce over time as systemic racism also decreased.

Maybe, but they didn't account for the trends. That complicates things. By the way, accounting such trends might as well find a stronger effect of those contextual socioeconomic/racial effects - who knows?

I can not read NY Times articles usually, but since we are at the beginning of the month, I was able to read it. That study does not contradict the finding if this study at all.

I would disagree - there might of course be case heterogeneity that isn't being caught by state or district level effects. Of course, you might also question Fryer's data too - he basically hired an army of qualified semi-slave labor research assistants to transcribe each of the reports there, which may of course have transcription errors - but I would strongly advice against relying too much on aggregate data.

Again, this assumes that you have evidence of illegal orders, which is so unlikely that it seems odd to use this as an argument.

So you think the repression of peaceful demonstrators is legal? Maybe. Again, I suspect it depends a lot on the situation.

How does this support the claim that militarisation is a reaction to an armed populace?

I don't know, maybe because there's a pattern of increasingly lethal arms in hands of civilians (both law abiding and those who engage in crime).

So, they were able to address the demands of a heavily armed protest without using police brutality or their military hardware.

But they cannot do that with peaceful unarmed protesters.

I wonder why? Maybe because those armed protesters didn't have people among them predisposed to attack the police? Unfortunately, those guys do show up to the protests over the homicide of George Floyd and use peaceful protesters as cover to do precisely that.

At this point, I think people can read it for themselves.

Ok?

And if anyone needs further evidence of why cops need to be disarmed and defunded, just watch the news.

If you only care about upper middle class college kids, sure. But how about showing what happens in the neighborhoods where the have nots live? How about showing the shootouts between looters and people defending their own businesses and communities? Why is it that the far left doesn't care about their security?

Once you do that, the conclusion doesn't seem that obvious to me. Unless of course you want the poorer neighborhoods of American cities to become the Wild West or favelas, that is. If so, I invite you to live inside or close to them before commenting. Even better, ask communities themselves if the police should be removed from their neighborhoods and what would happen if it were.

And how the hell is that a liberal like me is making this sort of class based argument to a self-declared Marxist? Like, what the hell?

Are we now calling police because retail staff are annoyed at how a customer behaves? Is that the argument?

No, the argument is that they have no other lawful means to recover the lost products. Again, what do you suggest the clerks do?

Because police brutality is often an example of individual racism. Systemic racism occurs in more discreet ways, like police unions refusing to recognise and deal with individual racism in their ranks, to the extent that individual racists actually get institutional support.

However, the lack of an appropriate response to what is a natural reaction to rather brutal footage arising from the activities of police unions and the like (which I agree are part of the problem) becomes harder to tolerate as the video evidence piles up. Or to be clearer: If this incident hadn't been filmed, the reaction to it would have been a lot more muted.

Yes, and that does not matter.

Mr. Floyd had the cops called on him despite not doing anything illegal or violent, or threatening to do anything violent or criminal.

Refusing to return the merchandise is not legal, even if his state of mind didn't allow for him to reflect on what he was doing. Drunkenness or being high is rarely an excuse for violating the law.

@Drlee I agree it's not productive to spend too long on discussing that, but based on their own definitions what Chauvin did was certainly unconscious neck restraint. Which, as the video evidence shows, was unjustified under MPD's own manual, on top of being executed improperly.

This may not matter as far as the wider issue goes, but come the trial I don't see how they will be able to use the policy as defense.

[skinster]

[Godstud]

1312

ACAB

Fuck the police!

THIS is why the police need to have all their military equipment stripped from them and they need to re-hire an entire nation's police! Hire HUMANS!

[skinster]

Right now in NYC

[SpecialOlympian]

The President of the United States of America, who is the biggest bitch in the world, is withdrawing troops because he is not in charge (because he is a giant bitch).

What appeared on Thursday to be an uneasy truce between the White House and Pentagon did not mean that the conflict was over. While Mr. Trump’s advisers counseled him not to fire Mr. Esper, the president spent much of the day privately railing about the defense secretary, who along with Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, opposed the president’s desire to send regular troops into the nation’s cities.

Mr. Trump has been dismissive of Mr. Esper as weak, according to people who have heard the president speak on the matter, but he told aides that he understands their warnings that he would risk more criticism from military officials if he were to dismiss the defense secretary, fueling a rising revolt among retired officers in the thick of a re-election campaign.

TLDR: The President is a weak little bitch (he never even deployed the troops in question).

[Godstud]

People need to start bringing guns and shooting cops who attack people.

[Unthinking Majority]

No it's not fascism, it's tyranny. Police-state tyranny. Same shit happens under communism. Fascism isn't a synonym for tyranny. This guy is a professional journalist and doesn't even know what fascism is.

[Donna]

lol the bunker bitch got cucked.