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People(not the left, but people) will not tolerate your brutal and racist state anymore, they will protest until things change and very long it took. If you have an issue with that, take a look at the 1st Amendment.
You 're part of the same guys that fail to acknowledge that trying to detract from the actual topic, to justify the brutality and/or to blame the victim is the equivalent of racism as it is done in support of the racism that sustains these systemic discriminations.
You fail to calculate that in your mind despite calculating quite ridiculous things based on your own presumptions, bias and prejudice.
Now you feel that pointing out to you that it was agent provocateurs causing the riots and a very tiny minority of useful idiots picking them up, as the equivalent of "justifying the riots".
The hypocrisy has no end in sight and neither does the victimisation that you feel. People die, people get brutalised yet somehow you are the victim of it all.
Only trolls request evidence for negatives, you should post evidence of looting going on today as of this moment, the extent of it and the people responsible for it. You are the only one being outraged by something that is not happening and you are the one required to prove that it is and that is by the people you accuse.
You have not pointed out any hypocrisy except for your own. No police were beating lockdown protestors(prove and link evidence of your claims)
, but your hypocrisy supporting the lockdown protestors while using coronamania against real injustice is quite disgusting and belongs to the relevant thread.
Your off-topics will not be tolerated as you have been kindly warned already.
All these other matters have their own thread in this forum already and no cross-contamination has been permitted for anyone, neither left nor right, it will not be permitted for you and nor should you consider yourself privileged.
Unthinking Majority wrote:That white dude had something in his hands, they told him to get on the ground many times, and he wouldn't comply, then he was walking around even walking towards the officers. The cop who shot him said "if you come forward you're going to get shot", then the guy walks towards the cops and the cops shoot. He'd have to do something nutters like flee the cops in his truck to have multiple cops have guns drawn on him while he was in the car in the first place. If you have cops pointing guns at you and they tell you to get on the ground you do it. Cops do commit all sorts of brutality to white people all the time, this is just not the best example. What I don't understand is the cops should have jumped him and secured his hands as soon as they shot him, instead they kept guns drawn and kept shooting him because he kept moving his hands.
Training is only half the problem. Cops have a huge accountability problem, they protect their own too. Also, when a bad cop is doing something unlawful most other cops won't do anything to stop it or report it. Good cops who let other cops break the law are bad cops. Cops are often above the law, that means they're tyrants.
annatar1914 wrote:Surely you can see that?
Mention of Black genocide by other means, as part of a larger critique of exposing White Liberal mendacity and hypocrisy.
You're being rather judgemental and making many assumptions. Perhaps you are projecting your own prejudice, bias, and presumptions on me.
Strawman. I never said that, you're just trying to maintain the narrative that mentioning the rioting and lawless behavior somehow dishonors the memory of those slain and brutalized by the Police, when the opposite is true. I learned what I learned in these matters from Martin Luther King.
You're the one who said that there was no looting, without evidence, just as you earlier blamed said looting on white supremacist infiltrators. You're the one who has the moral obligation to back up your accusations, as I've made no accusations.
It isn't off topic, and in your heart you know it. Justice for George Floyd shouldn't be an injustice for the hundreds if not thousands of black people whose lived have been damaged by an opportunistic troika of virtue signaling white liberals, media vultures, and would-be revolutionaries.
wat0n wrote:Of course I do - hence why I think Chauvin needs to face prosecution.
As it appears to you, you mean. FWIW, it took him way longer to charge Mohammad Noor than to charge Chauvin.
No disagreement there. It's also their responsibility to deal with complaints.
I'm not sure how you concluded that I agreed with that claim, I'm only saying that if the criminal justice system is unconstitutional it is possible to argue so before the SCOTUS. Furthermore when I say "criminal justice system" I don't mean policing but the judicial process.
As for cops breaking the law: Of course it happens, just as it can happen with any public official. And when it does, then justice needs to be served, that's exactly how a healthy democratic system works. At last, it is also true that not all cops break the law just as not all public officials break the law either.
Would you please elaborate in what do you mean that the two facts are not mutually exclusive? That there is systemic racism and at the same time cops are not more likely to shoot Blacks? Maybe, but it complicates narratives, don't you think? If this doesn't happen then maybe the issue with systemic racism doesn't involve the use of deadly force by the police but other problems unrelated with police behavior (I'm actually open to that sort of argument, but it makes it even harder to differentiate with class discrimination).
So you don't think that the Minnesota AG will be able to successfully investigate this incident at hand now?
Thankfully, I don't think it's necessary to get to that level. If the city's court system has trouble investigating its PD then it can request State or Federal assistance.
No, they introduced the tactics used by the US military during the occupation of the Philippines, which is also something that was carried out by the police forces of other countries. But the motivation behind doing that has been the increasing firepower at the hands of civilians as firearms technology improves.
That's quite a bit of a selective reading of the source. The irony is that if anything that was started by the actions of Whites, particularly fighting the Mafia during the Prohibition. It's not a coincidence that the police began to deploy the Tommys on the streets (before that, some departments owned a few units for special operations) as the Mafia did it. And those were actually sold to the military, law enforcement and civilians alike, whenever they could afford them (each unit cost around $3000 of today's dollars).
But that robbery, as is clearly stated there, led to police carrying military grade weapons along routinely for these kind of operations. That is, while procurement had began earlier much of it had been carried out for special operations (particularly against drug cartels and terrorism) but over time they have become an increasingly common sight due to the firepower in hands of civilians. What used to be only in hands of the SWAT can now be seen by regular cops sometimes.
The text does, your selective reading of it however is another matter.
That the looting has happened under those circumstances is uncontroversial at this time, despite the excessive use of force by police in other instances.
I also find it interesting that someone who considers Cuba to be a democracy is concerned about brutality against protesters. Do you want to get into a discussion about how protests are handled there?
Sure, police presence deters crime:
https://pubs.aeaweb.org/doi/pdf/10.1257 ... 4322970733
Of course merely having more police doesn't solve it, there are approaches that work and approaches that don't work:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... uce-crime/
At last, crime seems to affect poorer and African American neighborhoods most. Of course, upper middle class Whites cannot understand and don't care about them, regardless of the pretenses to the contrary.
Inadvertently using a fake bill is not illegal, but doing so intentionally is:
Part of the problem is that intent can be inferred from behavior, and if Floyd had been sober I suspect even you wouldn't disagree that not returning the purchased goods would look quite badly. Being drunk/high makes the inference harder but I don't blame the clerk for calling: Not being sober is neither evidence of intent nor evidence of absence of intent either.
Interesting, this makes it an even more unfortunate incident. Good to know.
Why should one assume that all similar interactions will end like that? Why would anyone expect that the store clerks would assume that calling the police would end in brutality?
Nice way to make inferences from a sample size of 1 of each and also move the goalposts. Firstly you said a store clerk would not call a White person in a similar context, when you prove you were wrong yourself then you imply that George Floyd's case is how one should expect it to end if an African American is involved.
I don't think one should expect a similar interaction with police to end with the killing of the person who paid with counterfeit money (with intent or not) and indeed it's why this is such a scandal: This isn't supposed to happen, and Chauvin wasn't supposed to use any kind neck pressure against a suspect who wasn't actively resisting (let alone what happened afterwards) under his own PD's manual for that matter. This is clearly a case of a cop acting with brutality, and against the rules that his employer had previously defined on how he's supposed to carry his duties out, even if the manual itself is more reckless than what the Federal government advices.
Julian658 wrote:I do not disagree, but I believe this kid was very high.
It is also hard to understand why he got shot two more times while he was on the ground dying. Can you imagine the turmoil if this kid was black?
noemon wrote:It is irrelevant to the reality that Black people face today.
Not making any sense. You are living in artificial reality.
You 're transparent, you are talking about not just yesterdays news but last months, for no reason rather than feeling like a victim that you really are not. So you should expect to be told raw. And plus you are continuing to do that shamelessly so why should I give you the benefit of the doubt?
Fake news. In reality your statement here is a straw-man, it distracts from the topic and you pretend you are more victim than the actual victims. This is the point of lingering on it for no reason whatsoever. Turning the conversation about how you are somehow the victim in this all here; and that is quite a dishonourable thing to do and not just for the memory of those slain but more generally.
This is in response to you being asked to provide images of riots happening right now, it's clear you do not have any.
Talking about abortion is not any of these stuff. The coronavirus liberal/conservative hypocrisy conversation we are already talking about it in exactly the same frequency in another thread at the same time. You 're once again trying to be dramatic and outrageous to pretend to be the victim. It's not proper mate, but the very thing that you accuse the liberals of. A lack of backbone, opportunism & false victimisation.
Pants-of-dog wrote:And the rest of the police committing illegal acts.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Since the DA was kicked off the case and replaced with another prosecutor, I am not the only one who thinks something fishy was going on.
So why is no one investigating? The answer has to do with systemic racism.
Pants-of-dog wrote:It should not be the responsibility of the police to investigate police. The murderer had a long history if violence and complaints, but his only punishment was a single letter.
Pants-of-dog wrote:I see a lot of people wonder what the murderer was thinking when he knelt on Mr. Floyd’s neck for so long. They are surprised that the killer cop just did it so brazenly, risking his pension, job, criminal charges, et cetera.
Those who have studied police brutality and the systemic causes for impunity were not surprised at his behaviour, because the chances of his risking any of these things were minimal. The fact that he has been charged at all is the surprising bit, and shows how effective riots can be.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Then the USA has a decidedly unhealthy democratic system.
What exactly would be put before the SCOTUS?
Pants-of-dog wrote:Are you making an argument here?
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, it does “complicate narratives”. Reality is often complex.
Pants-of-dog wrote:And systemic racism does involve police behaviour. Mr. Floyd’s murderer gave us a clear example of that.
Pants-of-dog wrote:No, I do not think that the Minnesota AG can successfully investigate the police when the police have a free hand to obstruct any investigation. We have cops resigning from positions (but not their jobs) in support of cops who have been caught brutalising people.
There are many ways in which the different parts of the justice system can impede any investigation into one of its groups or people.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Your evidence does not support your claim. Instead it supports the idea that these tactics were adopted by police forces in order to subjugate a hostile and foreign community of non-whites.
Thank you for quoting that. It provides some insight into the relationship between militarisation of police and racism..
Pants-of-dog wrote:I am not interested in explaining again the different historical, ideological, and material conditions that make such a comparison difficult, or debunking myths about Cuban oppression in this thread. At worst, you can condemn me for a hypocrite but that would not make my arguments any less correct.
Pants-of-dog wrote:And my claim was never about looting. My point was that there is far less physical violence in the USA when there are no cops around.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Does it deter crime in all neighbourhoods? Is the amount of crime that they deter more or less than the amount of crime they cause?
Pants-of-dog wrote:Does crime affect these neighbourhoods more? Or do police simply find more crime there while they surveil and harass these people?
Pants-of-dog wrote:So Mr, Floyd broke no law. And with presumption of innocence, the law cannot assume that he intentionally used counterfeit money.
The fact that he did not flee when the police were coming indicates that he had n criminal intent.
Pants-of-dog wrote:Because a significantly high number of interactions between police and blacks end up like this.
And if you know this, you would know that calling the police on black people puts black people at risk of being assaulted or killed.
I do not expect a teenager to know this, though. And now the store owner does not expect this either.
Pants-of-dog wrote:I gave several examples of myself using (or more correctly, unwittingly trying to use) counterfeit money and simply not having the money accepted, with no further issue.
If you think that I am going to find evidence of store owners letting white people go like that, please explain how that would leave any sort of verifiable and measurable trace and could therefore be supported with evidence. If you can explain that, I will find more evidence than the anecdotes already provided.
No one has proven me wrong on this, so the claim that you have done so is incorrect.
Nor did I claim that all encounters between black people and police end in death. Instead, I argued that a disproportionate number of these encounters end in death.
Pants-of-dog wrote:And yet it took days of rioting before any punishment occurred. And no one has done anything about the police brutality since then.
annatar1914 wrote:Well, clearly you are arguing not from logic but from emotion Admin Edit: Rule 16 Violation, trying now to plant the assumption in minds that i'm thinking of myself as a ''victim''. I'm not, having my feet planted firmly in the real world. The real world that the fake ''Left'' has entirely departed by now I see.
This piggybacking identity politics nonsense grafted onto the narrative story of Floyd's murder isn't going to produce a Socialist society, a better more democratic society, but a failed Society like the Ukraine or Pakistan, with a well-equipped military and nuclear weapons, but anarchic and loosely ruled by feuding Oligarchs.
Now directly bearing on the matters at hand, this article from a conservative website actually makes the case that the NAACP's proposals are quite reasonable;
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/the-naacp ... activists/
common ground for the common good can be found.
noemon wrote:There have been several Black people dead in this manner but no turmoil has happened. It all depends on the circumstances, the boiling point and most importantly on the handling of the authorities and the government which you lot are failing to hold to account for actions in both word & deed.
Your detraction tactics are transparent and ridiculous. And they expose you no matter how much you try to put a fake face on.
noemon wrote:The protests are not about nihilism but about justice and indeed class, income, social and racial disparities. This does not undermine them in any way, shape or form.
The guy is living in artificial reality, he is playing his own video-game totally detached from the real world and in total denial of how everything he says is about how he perceives the world to be against him
assuming the position of the victim even in a thread about a dead Black guy.
Even that, should not be, in his view, all threads should be about Annatar
, his white nationalist buddies,
their issues with transgenders
All human conversation should be about them, always, otherwise everyone is a hypocrite, authoritarian, liberal, in some conspiracy one way or another and what have you.
I'm just going by your own words. Your quoting word for word bj style just adds to your desperation to make yourself the centre of this conversation.
You have no other point in here, and it's ridiculous at this point as well as all the other things that we have already discussed.
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