Am I racist in your opinion? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Polls on politics, news, current affairs and history.

Am I racist?

Yes
12
60%
No
8
40%
#15098027
You're racist. How racist are you, remains to be seen.

A little education goes a long ways. Watch it. It's interesting and educational.


If you defend and support racism, then you're a real racist.
#15098032
@Tainari88 its not an especially original observation but I am trying to distance myself from the #alllivesmatter foolishness while still being critical of anti racist strategy.

The trump phenomenon is an example of a dangerous reactionary phenomenon that can happen if the wrong strategy is used.

I used to argue with this stuff years ago with pod on immigration.

aggression is dangerous even when it has good intentions. Aggressively pushing what is badly termed "pc culture" has proven counter productive but they are doubling down on it.

The idea that the American police have made no progress is both dangerous and incorrect. They may still be very bad but there have been a lot of initiatives and improvements to complaint procedures, training etc. Like racism in general, people are just more aware and connected now so everything is more visible.

If people think things are not improving then they give in to dispair and extremism. Imo the situation in sexism, racism and all these things is generally improving in the mainstream at the same time as some backwards steps in counter culture ie the alt right etc. We can recognise both these things and tackle them more effectively.

Then again "things gradually improving" doesn't sound great down a megaphone when your trying to make a point.
#15098033
Watch the video I just posted, @layman.

Only on the surface has it appeared to have gotten better.
#15098038
Godstud wrote:You're racist. How racist are you, remains to be seen.

If you defend and support racism, then you're a real racist.

If you say you are not a racists, then they say that is proof that you are racist. So you might as well admit you are racist and live with it.
Praise the Lord.
#15098040
Most people are racist since it's conditioned into Western society from an early age. When you're aware of it, however, you can act against it. Some people, like you, don't seek to work against racism and want things to stay the same, regardless of who it might hurt, or who it's hurting.

Watch the video I posted. It's really good and this woman is famous for her studies on racism. At the very least it will be enlightening.

You can't change if you can't acknowledge that there's a problem.
#15098049
Godstud wrote:Most people are racist since it's conditioned into Western society from an early age. When you're aware of it, however, you can act against it. Some people, like you, don't seek to work against racism and want things to stay the same, regardless of who it might hurt, or who it's hurting.

Watch the video I posted. It's really good and this woman is famous for her studies on racism. At the very least it will be enlightening.

You can't change if you can't acknowledge that there's a problem.

Tucker: The Cultural Revolution has come to America
Jun 5, 2020

Is there a single person who believes this moment will end in racial harmony? Is that even a goal anymore?
#15098051
It's possible if the institutional racism is dealt with.

Tucker Carlson is a reactionary twat.
#15098059
Julian658 wrote:Denial is not a river in Egypt. Why are you so afraid? I was once just like you. What is wrong with being objective? I watch extreme left wing videos all the time and always learn something new. Are you afraid to hear what left wing white people have to say about voter ID? Trust me, they are incredibly racist, more so than a rabid right winger.

Lol! I actually believe you. :lol: Why is that funny?
#15098065
Political Interest wrote:It could also be because locals simply prefer a non outsider. The reasons you listed could merely be excuses. All in all it is very difficult to quantify or prove one way or the other.

The expatriate experience is not proplerly representative of the full experience of life as a white minority because expatriates live in parallel communities separate from the wider populations of their host nations.


I pointed out the privileged position of whites in majority non-white countries to show that white privilege is a global phenomenon which is not limited the West. It goes without saying that white immigrants in Asia or Africa, aka expatriates, are often not fully integrated in their host country, but the same applies for coloured immigrants who suffer discrimination in the West. Why discount the former in the discussion of discrimination if we admit discrimination in the case of the latter?

The different treatment of white immigrants and Asian or African immigrants in Japan or China shows that the two can be compared. Preferential treatment of whites isn’t limited to highly paid expats working for a white boss; no it’s extended to most whites who happen to be there for whatever reason. Please note that black Europeans and Americans suffer discrimination just like black Africans, even if they are expats working for an international company. So, it’s related to race and skin colour more than to status.

Just like nobody is entirely free of racist reflexes, it’s also true that it’s sometimes hard to determine if there is racist intent. Do I prefer the company of a compatriot over the company of a foreigner because I’m a racist or because communicating with a foreigner requires a constant effort while the compatriot provides the comfort of the common experience and familiarity? Humans are complex beings in which the ultimate intention is hidden beneath layer upon layer of rationalization in the depth of the collective consciousness. Thus, it is difficult to ascertain if our intentions are 100% altruistic, or if there are hidden motives. But this sort of excessive self-doubt is hardly useful in a context in which brute racism leads to systematic discrimination of ethnic minorities.

Anyways, most first generation immigrants accept that they are treated differently from the natives of their host countries because emigration was their own choice. The problem starts with the 2nd generation, who do not know the native country of their ancestors and who experience discrimination in the only place they can call home.
#15098072
layman wrote:@Tainari88 its not an especially original observation but I am trying to distance myself from the #alllivesmatter foolishness while still being critical of anti racist strategy.

The trump phenomenon is an example of a dangerous reactionary phenomenon that can happen if the wrong strategy is used.

I used to argue with this stuff years ago with pod on immigration.

aggression is dangerous even when it has good intentions. Aggressively pushing what is badly termed "pc culture" has proven counter productive but they are doubling down on it.

The idea that the American police have made no progress is both dangerous and incorrect. They may still be very bad but there have been a lot of initiatives and improvements to complaint procedures, training etc. Like racism in general, people are just more aware and connected now so everything is more visible.

If people think things are not improving then they give in to dispair and extremism. Imo the situation in sexism, racism and all these things is generally improving in the mainstream at the same time as some backwards steps in counter culture ie the alt right etc. We can recognise both these things and tackle them more effectively.

Then again "things gradually improving" doesn't sound great down a megaphone when your trying to make a point.


How long are people going to have to wait before things change for something better?


In history how do things change for the better by sitting on your ass waiting for the perfect circumstances?

Have you ever read anything professional and well researched about changing people's bad habits? I have.

I was interested in changing habits that I had that were holding me back in life from progressing in life.

One of the most important strategies they teach you in that is to stop making excuses and to stop procrastinating and to take action. Take action NOW. Don't wait for the perfect conditions because the conditions will never be ideal.

When will it be the perfect time to end racism and to change and improve the lives of people who are continually denied any real power in a system designed to serve only a small group? When is that going to become magically open to change? Never. They need to be pressured into it by so many people (the majority of the society that doesn't live high off of the hog. 60% of the USA's families make 60k a year or less. If you realize how many of them wind up paying more than a quarter of that income in federal, state, county and city taxes? And the rents and costs of living are very high? They are not the small elite making a great living and in conformity with the state of affairs going on currently. You throw in CoVid lockdown and lack of universal coverage for all in health care? High dentist bills and out of control credit card and student debt? You got hopelessness.

People in order to change the society need to be activated into it. They need to take action to end the racism and the lack of being able to live an "American style of life". They don't ask for the moon. They ask for normal shit. Health care and education and housing and retirement and being able to save 10% of their salaries for 50 years. That is it. That is all they ask for.

You know this layman. If you are a person with bad habits that are negative for your long term health? What do you need to stop doing? Making bad excuses to avoid doing what needs to get done to change your bad habits that are dragging you down. You can hear all day that in order to stop racist problems you need to get people to acknowledge what is racism and racist thinking, and racist behavior and how the system works and how to change it. By not operating with it and by acknowledging the wrong doing and why instead of this being solved long ago in terms of not having Black people getting killed by these televised incidents? Consistently....but by having zero tolerance for absues of power.

It is like the Roman Catholic Church with the child molestation clergy. You aren't going to solve the damn problem by denying and denying and shuffling those pedophiles from parish to parish and from country to country. You need to openly confront them. Not accept their excuses, and ex communicate them and then prosecute them in a court of law through a government agency. Pay the law suits and then anyone new coming into the institution? You read them what will happen if you are molesting children in the Roman Catholic church.

If you do that? You are guaranteed a serious improvement and resolution of changing it for the better. If you don't cope with it? Sweep it under the rug and avoid it and say, "Slow and gradually". That shit doesn't work layman.

I know you understand me? Lol. I really hate child molesters. No one would want me dealing with them if I was a judge. I have zero tolerance for that shit. I hate it.
#15098076
layman wrote:@Tainari88 its not an especially original observation but I am trying to distance myself from the #alllivesmatter foolishness while still being critical of anti racist strategy.

The trump phenomenon is an example of a dangerous reactionary phenomenon that can happen if the wrong strategy is used.

I used to argue with this stuff years ago with pod on immigration.

aggression is dangerous even when it has good intentions. Aggressively pushing what is badly termed "pc culture" has proven counter productive but they are doubling down on it.

The idea that the American police have made no progress is both dangerous and incorrect. They may still be very bad but there have been a lot of initiatives and improvements to complaint procedures, training etc. Like racism in general, people are just more aware and connected now so everything is more visible.

If people think things are not improving then they give in to dispair and extremism. Imo the situation in sexism, racism and all these things is generally improving in the mainstream at the same time as some backwards steps in counter culture ie the alt right etc. We can recognise both these things and tackle them more effectively.

Then again "things gradually improving" doesn't sound great down a megaphone when your trying to make a point.

I see very little problem coming from the right. To me it seems to be the left with their fake news media that are always instigating racial responses by not being completely honest in all cases that keep rumors alive, and then when a case like George Floyd comes up, they can easily stroke the fires again to a fever point. Then the alt-left groups like Antifa, Black Lives Matter, and others come in to stroke racial division even more with riots and looting as a result.

A couple days ago, I saw one of the protesters climb up on a 16th Street pole in DC and began pushing and pulling on a sign sticking out the side of the 16th Street sign until it snapped off. Then yesterday, I saw on the news that people had painted in big yellow letters "BLACK LIVES MATTER" on that street near the White House, according to that News report. Then the camera panned up to that 16th street sign pole and off to the side where that protester had torn down another sign just a couple days ago was a new black and white sign with "Black Lives Matters" plus some smaller letters that I could not make out. Apparently this was all done with the approval of the Black DC mayor. She is the one that evicted the National Guard from where they were staying in DC.
#15098109
Atlantis wrote:I pointed out the privileged position of whites in majority non-white countries to show that white privilege is a global phenomenon which is not limited the West. It goes without saying that white immigrants in Asia or Africa, aka expatriates, are often not fully integrated in their host country, but the same applies for coloured immigrants who suffer discrimination in the West. Why discount the former in the discussion of discrimination if we admit discrimination in the case of the latter?


I never discounted this.

Atlantis wrote:The different treatment of white immigrants and Asian or African immigrants in Japan or China shows that the two can be compared. Preferential treatment of whites isn’t limited to highly paid expats working for a white boss; no it’s extended to most whites who happen to be there for whatever reason. Please note that black Europeans and Americans suffer discrimination just like black Africans, even if they are expats working for an international company. So, it’s related to race and skin colour more than to status.


Systemic discrimination against non-whites is of course indisputable. It is no surprise that it occurs in Asia and Africa as well. However this does not discount the possibility that whites can be discriminated against in ways that are more than cosmetic, i.e. "The man was rude to me." There seems to be this notion that discrimination against whites is very light and benign.

Atlantis wrote:Just like nobody is entirely free of racist reflexes, it’s also true that it’s sometimes hard to determine if there is racist intent. Do I prefer the company of a compatriot over the company of a foreigner because I’m a racist or because communicating with a foreigner requires a constant effort while the compatriot provides the comfort of the common experience and familiarity? Humans are complex beings in which the ultimate intention is hidden beneath layer upon layer of rationalization in the depth of the collective consciousness. Thus, it is difficult to ascertain if our intentions are 100% altruistic, or if there are hidden motives. But this sort of excessive self-doubt is hardly useful in a context in which brute racism leads to systematic discrimination of ethnic minorities.


True. Intentions are often hard to quantify.

Atlantis wrote:Anyways, most first generation immigrants accept that they are treated differently from the natives of their host countries because emigration was their own choice. The problem starts with the 2nd generation, who do not know the native country of their ancestors and who experience discrimination in the only place they can call home.


There are very few cases of second generation white immigrants outside non-Western settings. Expats are not proper immigrants because they are not there permanently and have not taken citizenship.

Most expats come as skilled professionals. It would be interesting to see what life would be like for a white mechanic in Japan or Korea or a completely unskilled labourer with no language skills and no ability to return to their home country.

No doubt the discrimination of POC against other POC is worse than it is against whites. This does not mean such discrimination happens as rarely as people think, however.
#15098149
Julian658 wrote:The reason Asia and Europe developed ahead of other areas was geographic advantage that provided great natural resources as well as domesticated animals and plants. The discovery of agriculture was key in technological advancement. Humans living in New Guinea had no chance of developing agriculture or having domestic animals and hence remain hunter and gatherers and must practice cannibalism to obtain protein.
when you say they must practice cannibalism to obtain protein, could you explain more? I've never actually heard that one.
#15098154
Godstud wrote:You're racist. How racist are you, remains to be seen.

A little education goes a long ways. Watch it. It's interesting and educational.


If you defend and support racism, then you're a real racist.

Was this post intended to be for me? You didn't quote anybody , and there are several people this post could have been intended for. I'm sure you will say it applies to me, but is that who you originally intended it to be for?
#15098159
Spider-Man wrote:when you say they must practice cannibalism to obtain protein, could you explain more? I've never actually heard that one.


It is a matter of evolution and survival. Some areas of the world are not optimal for human development.

You may want to read:

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies
Jared Diamond
#15098180
Political Interest wrote:There are very few cases of second generation white immigrants outside non-Western settings. Expats are not proper immigrants because they are not there permanently and have not taken citizenship.


European settlers represent a sizable population in most former colonies. Most of them have lived there for more than one generation. The only difference is that, in this case, the immigrants discriminate against the natives and not vice-versa.

Expats are immigrants. For example, in the UK all immigrants, qualified or not, are referred to by the term "immigrant" and not "expat", while most Brits abroad, qualified or not, see themselves as expats and not immigrants. Thus, the distinction between immigrants and expats is profoundly racist. It illustrates how people unthinkingly make racial distinctions because it is enshrined in the language we use.

The same applies to your failure to recognize European settlers in the colonies as the descendants of immigrants. The fact that the white immigrants in the colonies discriminate against the natives as second class citizens doesn't make it any better.
#15098221
Spider-Man wrote:Was this post intended to be for me? You didn't quote anybody , and there are several people this post could have been intended for. I'm sure you will say it applies to me, but is that who you originally intended it to be for?
Everyone should watch it, and learn from it.

Julian658 wrote:It is a matter of evolution and survival. Some areas of the world are not optimal for human development.
That doesn't justify racism.

Yes, that is a very good book and explains some of the problems that countries have, in certain geographic locations.
#15098263
@Godstud do you remember the 1980s or what about the 1970s? The police back then and people in generally were another species with these things.

I am open to the possibility there may have been some shorter term regression and I suggested some of the reason for that.

Just to be clear @Tainari88 i am not saying people should just sit and wait. I am certainly not arguing against these protests either.

Simply questioning strategy.
#15098288
Atlantis wrote:European settlers represent a sizable population in most former colonies. Most of them have lived there for more than one generation. The only difference is that, in this case, the immigrants discriminate against the natives and not vice-versa.


That is a rather sweeping generalisation. No doubt it goes both ways. The white immigrants probably discriminate against locals but the locals probably also discriminate against the whites. To say "rather than vice versa" is too absolute an assertion. Again, it is important to distinguish between expatriate communities that are essentially living in foreign concessions within Asia and Africa and naturalised whites. A lot of expatriates do discriminate and there is an air of elitism among expatriate communities in the Far East.

Atlantis wrote:Expats are immigrants. For example, in the UK all immigrants, qualified or not, are referred to by the term "immigrant" and not "expat", while most Brits abroad, qualified or not, see themselves as expats and not immigrants. Thus, the distinction between immigrants and expats is profoundly racist. It illustrates how people unthinkingly make racial distinctions because it is enshrined in the language we use.


This is simply not universal. There are many Asian immigrants in Britain who refer to themselves as expatriates.

British expatriates refer to themselves as such because they do not consider their stay in another country permanent.

The connotations of being an expatriate are those of a privileged life separate from locals and the eventual intention to return to one's country of citizenship.

Atlantis wrote:The same applies to your failure to recognize European settlers in the colonies as the descendants of immigrants. The fact that the white immigrants in the colonies discriminate against the natives as second class citizens doesn't make it any better.


They are the descendants of immigrants. However to use sociological data which indicates for example that white South Africans are still wealthier than their black compatrtiots is not a fair assessment of discrimnation against white minorities because it ignores historical circumstances such as apartheid. Apartheid kept the black population in a state of poverty while allowing the whites to accumulate resources. If you are measuring what life is like for white South Africans as a minority based on income and possession of capital this is simply not an accurate portrayal of reality because they are in large part the result of a 45 year unfair advantage. Poverty among white South Africans is increasing now they do not have the unfair advantage of apartheid. To what extent is discrimination a factor in this development?

The issue is not whether systemic discrimination against POC exists but whether or not discrimination against whites is more than merely superficial or harmless.
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