" Trump Has Sabotaged America’s Coronavirus Response" - Page 176 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in the USA and Canada.

Moderator: PoFo North America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15105646
Man, I was really scared that ISIS was going to come over and knock my shit off the shelves and shove me around. Thank you, President Trump, for continuing Obama's plan.

They fear us because we're fucking idiots with nukes, the same way the cops fear a visibly intoxicated person with a gun.
#15105653
SpecialOlympian wrote:Man, I was really scared that ISIS was going to come over and knock my shit off the shelves and shove me around. Thank you, President Trump, for continuing Obama's plan.

They fear us because we're fucking idiots with nukes, the same way the cops fear a visibly intoxicated person with a gun.


Obama failed to stop ISIS, Trump did it.
#15105700
Potemkin wrote:The thing about "herd immunity" is that it requires large numbers of "the herd" to be culled.

Not necessarily as large as people might think. Large sections of the population may have prior immunity due to other Coronaviruses. From the Diamond Princess figure this could be anything up to 80%. In a scenario where 80% have prior immunity, then you only need to infect 10 to 15% of the population in order to get effective herd immunity.
#15105707
Not necessarily as large as people might think. Large sections of the population may have prior immunity due to other Coronaviruses. From the Diamond Princess figure this could be anything up to 80%. In a scenario where 80% have prior immunity, then you only need to infect 10 to 15% of the population in order to get effective herd immunity.


Wrong. Actually if you had 80% with immunity the R0 would drop below 1 and the virus would go away. Quickly. Some research says as little as 43% would slowly stop the virus. Add to 40% herd immunity some moderate precautions, such as getting idiot republicans to wear masks and the pandemic would probably grind to a halt.

Research out today regarding the use of PPE by health care providers clearly shows that correct PPE is a very good protection against the virus.

But dem Go'ja 'Publicans are mo concerned 'bout their rats than dey are 'bout savin' lives.

Dumber than a bag of hammers.
#15105753
Rich wrote:Not necessarily as large as people might think. Large sections of the population may have prior immunity due to other Coronaviruses. From the Diamond Princess figure this could be anything up to 80%. In a scenario where 80% have prior immunity, then you only need to infect 10 to 15% of the population in order to get effective herd immunity.


Tu dis n'importe quoi!

- The "Diamond Princess figures" prove no such thing,

- nobody knows if there is ANY background immunity due to other coronaviruses,

- even if there is, it is most certainly less than 10%,

- even the Swedes now claim that they never aimed for herd immunity,

- 0.5% (Austria) to 8% (Barcelona) of European populations have antibodies; but even that doesn't guarantee immunity,

- to achieve herd immunity, you need at least 10 times the Italian outbreak; nobody is going to accept that sort of death toll,

- even if we achieve herd immunity after tens of millions deaths in several years time, nobody know if immunity lasts,

- at this point, nobody knows if we'll ever have an effective vaccine.

In conclusion, any government not using aggressive non-chemical containment measures is guilty of criminal neglect and should be judged accordingly.

Before we'll get drugs or vaccines, we'll have many non-chemical means (rapid tests, etc.) to contain the pandemic.

There is a special place in hell for Trumptards and assorted deniers.
#15105755
SaddamHuseinovic wrote:There should be a vaccinated person be infected with the virus this would save 6-12 Months and millions of lives.
Go volunteer to be a guinea pig, and be a hero.

Herd immunity stats
For some diseases, herd immunity can go into effect when 40 percent of the people in a population become immune to the disease, such as through vaccination. But in most cases, 80 to 95 percent of the population must be immune to the disease to stop its spread.

For example, 19 out of every 20 people must have the measles vaccination for herd immunity to go into effect and stop the disease. This means that if a child gets measles, everyone else in this population around them will most likely have been vaccinated, already have formed antibodies, and be immune to the disease to prevent it from spreading further.

https://www.healthline.com/health/herd-immunity#stats
#15105757
For some diseases, herd immunity can go into effect when 40 percent of the people in a population become immune to the disease, such as through vaccination. But in most cases, 80 to 95 percent of the population must be immune to the disease to stop its spread.

And, given a mortality rate of covid-19 of about 3%, that means culling more than 2% of the population to achieve "herd immunity", which might only last six months to a year. Then rinse and repeat. Lol.
#15105758
Atlantis wrote:There is a special place in hell for Trumptards and assorted deniers.

Not that pathetic fantasy again. The idea that there is some post life punishment, that just happens to be administered according to the beliefs, values and prejudices of the proponent. Unfortunately this drivel was given second wind by that retarded cretin, Blaise Pascal. Pascal's argument was that although we don't know for certain that Huitzilopochtli exists, it is rationale to live under the assumption that he does exist and does dispense eternal justice in the after life. We should sacrifice as many people as possible, including children to Huitzilopochtli, even if it challenges our White Liberal hypocritical, virtue signalling prejudices, even if it makes us feel bad in this life, because of the chance of infinite reward / punishment in the next.
#15105759
@Rich, classic deflection :lol:

You don't have a leg to stand on with your herd immunity.

Trash it!

Spain's coronavirus antibodies study adds evidence against herd immunity

Madrid(CNN)Spain's large-scale study on the coronavirus indicates just 5% of its population has developed antibodies, strengthening evidence that a so-called herd immunity to Covid-19 is "unachievable," the medical journal the Lancet reported on Monday.

The findings show that 95% of Spain's population remains susceptible to the virus. Herd immunity is achieved when enough of a population has become infected with a virus or bacteria -- or vaccinated against it -- to stop its circulation.

The European Center for Disease Control told CNN that Spain's research, on a nationwide representative sample of more than 61,000 participants, appears to be the largest study to date among a dozen serological studies on the coronavirus undertaken by European nations.

It adds to the findings of an antibody study involving 2,766 participants in Geneva, Switzerland, published in the Lancet on June 11.

There have been similar studies in China and the United States and "the key finding from these representative cohorts is that most of the population appears to have remained unexposed" to Covid-19, "even in areas with widespread virus circulation," said a Lancet commentary published along with Spain's findings.

"In light of these findings, any proposed approach to achieve herd immunity through natural infection is not only highly unethical, but also unachievable," said the Lancet's commentary authors, Isabella Eckerle, head of the Geneva Centre for Emerging Viral Diseases, and Benjamin Meyer, a virologist at the University of Geneva.

Doctors are uncertain whether having antibodies to the coronavirus means someone cannot be infected again. It's not clear how long or how well antibodies protect people from the virus.

Spain's peer-reviewed study began in April while the nation remained on a strict lockdown, and was conducted by leading government research and epidemiological agencies.

"The relatively low seroprevalence observed in the context of an intense epidemic in Spain might serve as a reference to other countries. At present, herd immunity is difficult to achieve without accepting the collateral damage of many deaths in the susceptible population and overburdening of health systems," the report reads.

The Spanish study's lead author, Marina Pollán, who is director of the National Center for Epidemiology, told CNN: "Some experts have computed that around 60% of seroprevalence might mean herd immunity. But we are very far from achieving that number."

Spain has been one of the countries in Europe hit hardest by the coronavirus, with more than 28,000 deaths and 250,000 cases.

The Lancet published results of the first phase of Spain's study, conducted from April 27 to May 11, which showed a nationwide antibody prevalence of 5%.

But the Madrid metropolitan area, the hardest-hit in the country by Covid-19, had more than 10% prevalence, and densely urban Barcelona had 7%, while many other coastal provinces had far lower rates.

Similarly, Geneva's prevalence was 10.8% in the Swiss study conducted from April to early May, the Lancet reported.

"With a large majority of the population being infection naïve, virus circulation can quickly return to early pandemic dimensions in a second wave once measures are lifted," the Lancet's commentary authors Eckerle and Meyer wrote of the findings.

Spain's second study phase results were released on June 4, showing a 5.2% national prevalence, just slightly higher than in the first phase. The results from the third and final phase were made public on Monday; they showed that national prevalence remained at 5.2%, Pollán said.


In other words, even with a very big outbreak and high death toll as in Spain, it's impossible to achieve herd immunity.

What's wrong with people who push a theory they don't understand, that would kill millions and that would achieve nothing?
#15105799
Godstud wrote:Go volunteer to be a guinea pig, and be a hero



A vaccine will probably not work
Fauci warns that COVID-19 vaccine protection may be ‘finite’


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fauci ... 2020-07-07

The only solution is a mandatory corona tracing app.

We have to learn to live with the virus :(
#15106009
Here's some good links for tracking the coronavirus death rate:
https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_coron ... hs_per_day
https://ycharts.com/indicators/florida_ ... hs_per_day
https://ycharts.com/indicators/texas_co ... hs_per_day

Here's an image of the overall US death rate:
Image

The spike in late June is about two weeks after the BLM protests.
#15106015
More sabotage from Bunkerbitch.

'A Shameful Moment': Trump Announces Formal Withdrawal From WHO as Covid-19 Cases Climb
"This won't protect American lives or interests—it leaves Americans sick and America alone."

Epidemiologists and public interest groups were among the critics condemning the White House's announcement on Tuesday that the U.S. is formally withdrawing from the World Health Organization, five weeks after threatening to do so.

The move was announced to WHO on Monday and comes as more than 539,000 people around the world have died of the coronavirus, including more than 130,000 in the U.S., where the number of Covid-19 cases has been climbing for weeks.

"What a dark, dark, sickening day for America and the world," public health expert Eric Feigl-Ding tweeted in response to the news.

Trump has blamed WHO for not taking control of the pandemic after China first publicized a cluster of Covid-19 cases in Wuhan in late December 2019. As WHO communicated with world leaders in January about how to prepare for the pandemic, however, the Trump administration was dismissing the warnings of public health experts in the United States and downplaying the need to strengthen its medical supply chain.

Trump also severely hampered the United States' ability to observe the early days of the pandemic in China when he cut staff by more than two-thirds at the CDC's offices in Beijing before the pandemic.

Government watchdog Public Citizen called the president's decision on Tuesday "a shameful moment," and warned that the U.S. and the world will now be even less able to effectively confront the pandemic.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/ ... gFHF7eB3y4
#15106204
Yes Godstud. It is a national disgrace.

Look at @Wulfschilde post. He does not even know how to interpret those results. It is sad really. Trump relies on the ignorance of a great many people.
#15106263
Drlee wrote:Yes Godstud. It is a national disgrace.

Look at @Wulfschilde post. He does not even know how to interpret those results. It is sad really. Trump relies on the ignorance of a great many people.

All I did was provide a link to some graphs. I didn't write anything about interpretation or opinion. Nor did you :lol: Care to explain it?

Anyways, I think I will switch to using World Health Organization's charts because the Ycharts thing wants you to pay them after a certain number of views. They didn't mention that right away.

WHO charts: https://covid19.who.int/region/amro/country/us
#15106314
Following a decline of Covid cases, the numbers are up again in Tulsa after Trump's rally. The rally was pretty much of a failure otherwise, but Trump did manage to boost the coronavirus.

The city of Tulsa is experiencing a surge in coronavirus cases, a little over 2 weeks after President Donald Trump held a campaign rally in an indoor arena there.

Dr. Bruce Dart, Executive Director of the Tulsa Health Department, said in a press conference on Wednesday there are high numbers being reported this week, with nearly 500 new cases in two days and trends are showing that those numbers will increase.
There had been a 20% decline in new Covid-19 cases the week of June 28 through July 4.


Image
#15106358
Image
Death rate was higher today (yesterday? I'm not sure how they are tallying this) than the recent days, which were exceptionally low.

Despite all the doomsaying on the internet about how people are going to need lung transplants years from now even though they're asymptomatic or how COVID can cause brain damage, or the scholarly articles saying that protests don't spread COVID but Trump rallies do, the people with money (most of the smart people) are completely ignoring the BS and the stock market is basically running inverse to the death count. Most of this week the death count was low and the markets were going up. Today it's relatively higher but not anything compared to previous highs and the markets are mostly flat, with some winners and some losers.

Also, this is the WHO graph of United States data.
#15106369
Wulfschilde wrote:Image
Death rate was higher today (yesterday? I'm not sure how they are tallying this) than the recent days, which were exceptionally low.

Despite all the doomsaying on the internet about how people are going to need lung transplants years from now even though they're asymptomatic or how COVID can cause brain damage, or the scholarly articles saying that protests don't spread COVID but Trump rallies do, the people with money (most of the smart people) are completely ignoring the BS and the stock market is basically running inverse to the death count. Most of this week the death count was low and the markets were going up. Today it's relatively higher but not anything compared to previous highs and the markets are mostly flat, with some winners and some losers.

Also, this is the WHO graph of United States data.


Well, you don't understand it because you have been living in a bubble of FOX news and other crazy right-wing non-news. You are not in the front lines so you clearly don't have first hand information to put shit into context.
One of the things that most young doctors get taught during the first year of practice, internship, is that humans are remarkably resilient. It is definitely a bit macabre to say it, but the reality is that it takes quite a bit for someone to die, specially with modern technology. We can do the kidney's job, dialysis. We can do the Lungs job, ventilator or ECMO machine, we can do the heart's job, ECMO, Vasopressors, fluids, impella device, intraortic balloom pump. We can do the GI (stomach) job, either by directly feeding the gut, or through an IV solution.
The caveat? Well that all of these devices buys time but are not definitive end points. Another caveat is that they are invasive and exposes the patient to complications such as infections, blood clots, bleeding, etc. But usually the complications can be mitigated for a fairly long time, in the order of weeks in many cases.
A relatively young patient, could last months before eventually dying. We saw a very public case with an actor that recently died who spent about 3 months fighting with complications of the coronavirus. Now, the proximal cause of death is not likely to be the coronavirus per se, after all I would have expected that after a couple of weeks the infection itself would be cleared. However, the sequelae and complications remain and that can take a very long time to recover if it does at all.
I can tell you first hand that most patients under my care that made it to the ICU spent close to a month in the ICU, many of them died, other recovered but the ones that died usually took a while to die because we can artificially prolong dying for a while. Make no mistake, this is probably the worse and most traumatic death anyone can experience, in most cases these patients have been away from their families for weeks and even months, without being allowed to receive visitation. If they are conscious at all, they might be lucky and use video chat. Families are devastated.
Healthcare workers are devastated as well, we deal with hard situations all the time, but usually we have the family there... next to the patient... they grief the patient, you see them cry, you keep silent.
It is much easier to detach emotionally from the situation when you have the intellectual understanding of whats going on and the peace of mind that this person that is about to die will be griefed by the family, by their loved ones. It is another history when the emotional rollercoaster stops at your station and you don't have the ability to pass it to the family.
Shame on the leaders of this country that turned a natural disaster into a political hot potato
#15106392
XogGyux wrote:Well, you don't understand it because you have been living in a bubble of FOX news and other crazy right-wing non-news. You are not in the front lines so you clearly don't have first hand information to put shit into context.
One of the things that most young doctors get taught during the first year of practice, internship, is that humans are remarkably resilient. It is definitely a bit macabre to say it, but the reality is that it takes quite a bit for someone to die, specially with modern technology. We can do the kidney's job, dialysis. We can do the Lungs job, ventilator or ECMO machine, we can do the heart's job, ECMO, Vasopressors, fluids, impella device, intraortic balloom pump. We can do the GI (stomach) job, either by directly feeding the gut, or through an IV solution.
The caveat? Well that all of these devices buys time but are not definitive end points. Another caveat is that they are invasive and exposes the patient to complications such as infections, blood clots, bleeding, etc. But usually the complications can be mitigated for a fairly long time, in the order of weeks in many cases.
A relatively young patient, could last months before eventually dying. We saw a very public case with an actor that recently died who spent about 3 months fighting with complications of the coronavirus. Now, the proximal cause of death is not likely to be the coronavirus per se, after all I would have expected that after a couple of weeks the infection itself would be cleared. However, the sequelae and complications remain and that can take a very long time to recover if it does at all.
I can tell you first hand that most patients under my care that made it to the ICU spent close to a month in the ICU, many of them died, other recovered but the ones that died usually took a while to die because we can artificially prolong dying for a while. Make no mistake, this is probably the worse and most traumatic death anyone can experience, in most cases these patients have been away from their families for weeks and even months, without being allowed to receive visitation. If they are conscious at all, they might be lucky and use video chat. Families are devastated.
Healthcare workers are devastated as well, we deal with hard situations all the time, but usually we have the family there... next to the patient... they grief the patient, you see them cry, you keep silent.
It is much easier to detach emotionally from the situation when you have the intellectual understanding of whats going on and the peace of mind that this person that is about to die will be griefed by the family, by their loved ones. It is another history when the emotional rollercoaster stops at your station and you don't have the ability to pass it to the family.
Shame on the leaders of this country that turned a natural disaster into a political hot potato

This wall of text and mediocre shaming attempt has almost nothing to do with anything I wrote. There's an established time to death in most fatal cases, about 2-3 weeks.
  • 1
  • 174
  • 175
  • 176
  • 177
  • 178
  • 181
Maxwell Smart + 99 = Sig 139

https://i.imgur.com/KlfkjZK.jpg […]

You support China with all your heart and mind, as[…]

The thing about history is that it never really g[…]

@wat0n 1. If you have an argument that depend[…]