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noemon wrote:Erdogan just decided to turn the Hagia Sophia into a Mosque.
Turkey is officially a barbarian country that has no place in Europe.
I guess it would be ok to turn all Turkish mosques in Europe into churches now.
Potemkin wrote:I suspect that Rich is suggesting that Mr. Erdogan is merely playing the Great Game, and playing it rather well.
quetzalcoatl wrote:History suggests that most of those who play the Great Game carry their nations to a sad and diminished state. Even the clever ones.
noemon wrote:Your courts like your entire country and president are shams. You have no place in the civilised world and the only thing you are good at is being bullies just to make yourselves feel like you 're something. This move is only intended to insult the Greeks & Orthodox and Catholic Christians and pretend that you're something making it evident along the way that you 're actually nothing. You have no intention of peaceful co-existence with anyone around you and you like to shout it from the rooftops. This is actually part of your everyday culture and upbringing, you like to shout but not fight, you like to scream insults at each other but when someone confronts you, you sit down like puppies. This is your collective screaming at Greece and Europe for what exactly? No reason, just attention whoring.
Psychologists, psychiatrists and ethno-historians will be studying your national shame and psychosis for the next few centuries.
Nations who need to steal someone else's history to prop themselves up have an expiry date.
Istanbuller wrote:Hagia Sophia had served as a Mosque from 1453 to 1934. I don't see anything new here. It was used to be a Mosque. It is located today in a vastly Muslim country.
Have you ever visited to Spain? There are great Cathedrals which used to be Mosques. There are great Islamic sites where Islamic scholars and philosophers had lived. It was the source of Europe's Renaissance. Now all of them are gone. Spain uses them for different purposes.
If you tried to be nicer, maybe government would rethink about Hagia Sophia. Maybe there would be a duality.
noemon wrote:Be nicer in what way? We are not doing anything to you or your country. These happened centuries ago, funny how you think that still living in the Middle-Ages is acceptable. It's actually not and this is an admission of what your country actually is. A Medieval Muslim state bent on extremist religious expansion with no intention of being a friendly neighbour to anybody.
Istanbuller wrote:I am talking about present day events. Ankara is not happy with Greece's cooperation with Turkey's rivals in Europe and Middle East. I am sure opposition parties would think the same if they were in power.
Potemkin wrote:History suggests that everything ultimately ends in failure. Where is Alexander the Great's vast empire now? Where is the Roman Empire now? Even the Universe itself will eventually fizzle out in a long gloomy Heat Death....
Leaders do what they can, while they can. Life is brief, and death is forever.
quetzalcoatl wrote:True enough. But If I could choose (I can't), I'd choose to live under someone like NZ's Ardern rather than a country run by one of the grand game chess masters.
Potemkin wrote:Have you never considered that the reason why NZ's Ardern can afford to be such a nice guy is precisely because the British Empire played the Great Game so well back in the 18th and 19th centuries? After all, NZ used to belong to the Maoris, and now it doesn't. Lol.
Rugoz wrote:The point is rather that NZ knows its place in the world and plays the game accordingly. It doesn't suffer from hubris and its citizens live all the better for it.
Potemkin wrote:And that place is as a protectorate of the world order created by the British Empire and, following that Empire's decline, the USA. And it plays an active though subordinate role in maintaining that world order, as a member of 'Five Eyes' for example. Its citizens live so well and so peacefully precisely because the British slaughtered any Maoris who resisted our conquest of their land back in the 19th century, and because other nations are now still playing the Great Game on its behalf. Far from being exemplary, NZ is actually a good example of a weak nation getting a free ride on the coattails of its more powerful allies. It's easy to be a nice guy if other people have always done your dirty work for you. Lol.
Rugoz wrote:So what? That's just being smart.
They could try to invade Australia or do something else really stupid.
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