End of maduro - hopefully. - Page 63 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15106325
JohnRawls wrote:It is always somebody elses fault, isn't it? :|


The US has been making war on the country for decades, imposed sanctions that starve and kill otherwise, there have been numerous assassination attempts of the leader, the laughably failed coupS, the theft of billions of Venezuela's gold by the U.K. etc.

But this is just nothing to see here, because I'm a dumb bootlicker. :borg:
#15106450
skinster wrote:I'm sure the sanctions and war in general on the country had nowt to do with any of that, bootlicker.


JohnRawls wrote:It is always somebody elses fault, isn't it? :|


Image

A huge part of any Empire's ability to perform atrocities... is its citizen's ability to ignore them. JohnRawls here is "just doing his job, ma'am." His job is to aggressively ignore atrocities committed by the Empire.

The "stiff upper lip" of British Empire folklore is about having no emotions when you hear about (or witness) the atrocities your own nation is responsible for. By doing this, your elite is able to do some pretty horrendous things while you stand by whistling happy tunes to yourself.

A passive "banality of evil" type of attitude, like JohnRawls', is what every tyrant needs to do his damage to the human race.
#15106455
skinster wrote:The US has been making war on the country for decades, imposed sanctions that starve and kill otherwise, there have been numerous assassination attempts of the leader, the laughably failed coupS, the theft of billions of Venezuela's gold by the U.K. etc.

But this is just nothing to see here, because I'm a dumb bootlicker. :borg:


You have just such a soft, feminine touch with words, John Rawls loves your velvet glove ways with telling him about his Americans are the solution to Venezuela's woes!

I think John Rawls needs to see that Venezuela has good things too....here is one.

El sistema. And Gustavo Dudamel. Maestro Abreu.



#15106774


Tainari88 wrote:You have just such a soft, feminine touch with words, John Rawls loves your velvet glove ways with telling him about his Americans are the solution to Venezuela's woes!


I'm just naming names, Tainari. :D
#15106784
skinster wrote:The US has been making war on the country for decades, imposed sanctions that starve and kill otherwise, there have been numerous assassination attempts of the leader, the laughably failed coupS, the theft of billions of Venezuela's gold by the U.K. etc.

But this is just nothing to see here, because I'm a dumb bootlicker. :borg:


Venezuelan economy collapsed before the sanctions. As mentioned before which you constantly ignore. At some point with BUsh and Obama, all sanctions were removed. Sanctions were re-implemented after Maduro basically created a 2nd parliament and then cheated on the presidential election :roll:

As i said before, it is always somebody elses fault for you.
#15106890
You are regurgitating propaganda already proven wrong ITT, as usual only sharing your shitty opinion because that's all you have, since the facts aren't on your side. That's all you have...and the thing you're best at aside from that, which is licking boots. Off you go, lick those boots.

Always somebody else's fault? The U.S. has been making war on Venezuela for decades, only a moron can ignore that. Even when the U.S. president admits U.S. attacks and intervention were "a mistake" :lol:
#15106930
skinster wrote:You are regurgitating propaganda already proven wrong ITT, as usual only sharing your shitty opinion because that's all you have, since the facts aren't on your side. That's all you have...and the thing you're best at aside from that, which is licking boots. Off you go, lick those boots.

Always somebody else's fault? The U.S. has been making war on Venezuela for decades, only a moron can ignore that. Even when the U.S. president admits U.S. attacks and intervention were "a mistake" :lol:


Most people who you read and post here are basically well educated but have no real experience of the things that you are advocating for. Same goes for the most of the people who post anti-left propaganda because of their biased reasons and their political ideology. This includes you, tainari, our alt-right boys etc

The difference for me is that i have lived in the aftermath of such a system and seen a positive improvement to a more stable and more just system in my life time. On top of having my parents and grandparents who are first hand sources and can describe how it was before and what was good and bad. I know the downsides and the benefits of what you are advocating for. The reason i do not support it is because the downsides are too many and they are too hard on the human cost side.

As i mentioned before, not everything is bad with what Maduro and Chavez were doing. I was not critisizing Chavez because I always have this doubt in my head that may be i am overthinking things. May be they will figure it out and things will turn out differently. But in the end, Maduro turned in to an unmitigated disaster with faults similar to the end of the Soviet Union. Collapsing economy, corruption, mismanagement, heavy restrictions on cultural thought, heavy restrictions on general free speach, we vs outside mentality, state under siege, "believe in our true leader", the opposition needs to be jailed or sent to a mental assylum etc. There are many similarities.

So i can't be silent about this anymore. I suppose that there is always a point that needs to be crosses before i start my critisism of places like Venezuela, Belarus, Cuba. While Cuba is more or less okay for now, the other places mentioned are not. I know that this won't fit in to your world view but whatever. I am not trying to convince you here, i am presenting my opinion and time will judge us on who is correct and who is wrong.

Your most biggest flaw that i noticed about you and Venezuela or other similar places is that you think in terms of the European/American political systems. Their systems are not geared for justice or rule of law or anything of the sort. The biggest flaw of things that you advocate for is that they CAN end up where Venezuela or SU ended up: the system itself is fighting for its survival while the politicans are fighting to just maintain power for the sake of it and not to improve lives of every day Joes and Janes. The outcome of which is not always them loosing power or the system collapsing though. Depending on how much violence, coersion and blackmail they use then they CAN silence the critics. I just can't accept that. I do not want a repeat of Stalin light of sorts.

Yes, Stalin did do some great things for the country. But on the other hand he was a freaking madman. At the same time, systems in Europe and America did not require anywhere close to that level of sacrifice or killing. (Not WW2 related)
#15107024
JohnRawls wrote:The difference for me is that i have lived in the aftermath of such a system and seen a positive improvement to a more stable and more just system in my life time. On top of having my parents and grandparents who are first hand sources and can describe how it was before and what was good and bad. I know the downsides and the benefits of what you are advocating for. The reason i do not support it is because the downsides are too many and they are too hard on the human cost side.

This also means that your family is as biased as Juan Guaido, who has also WITNESSED the advantages of changing the government of Venezuela (he becomes president with USA backing).

My ex-boyfriend hated socialism because his family were wealthy land-owners whose land was re-distributed to help stop the starvation and dire poverty of the majority. His opinion was that he had "first-hand experience" with how BAD the system was.

Likewise, I'm sure the ants that a can of Raid kills have nothing good to say about that product.
#15107061
QatzelOk wrote:This also means that your family is as biased as Juan Guaido, who has also WITNESSED the advantages of changing the government of Venezuela (he becomes president with USA backing).

My ex-boyfriend hated socialism because his family were wealthy land-owners whose land was re-distributed to help stop the starvation and dire poverty of the majority. His opinion was that he had "first-hand experience" with how BAD the system was.

Likewise, I'm sure the ants that a can of Raid kills have nothing good to say about that product.


The real difference between the likes of Rawls (as he is now), you, skinster and Israelites; and anti-Maduro Venezuelans, Palestinians, Uighurs, Hongkongers, is that you have the chance to change things. We don't.

In other terms, you guys are in no place to accuse us as biased. If anything, you all have the freedom to be biased because you have a choice. My friends, family and I are marginal cases, but the same cannot be said for those actually oppressed by those you support.


skinster wrote:lol wat, nobody asked for your life story and more boring opinions on politics.


And with such attitude I pretty much understand why wars and violence are inevitable.
#15107067
QatzelOk wrote:This also means that your family is as biased as Juan Guaido, who has also WITNESSED the advantages of changing the government of Venezuela (he becomes president with USA backing).

My ex-boyfriend hated socialism because his family were wealthy land-owners whose land was re-distributed to help stop the starvation and dire poverty of the majority. His opinion was that he had "first-hand experience" with how BAD the system was.

Likewise, I'm sure the ants that a can of Raid kills have nothing good to say about that product.


By your logic, i should be rooting for the left. Little explanation about my family circumstances in the past:

If you talk about my granpas and grandmas. From the side of my mother, my grandpa was a director of a construction/cement factory. My grandma was the head of a warehousing complex. So both were set up good in this regard and were in the "best" spectrum of the SU especially considering they lived in Estonia.

From the side of my father, my grandma was a cloth maker while his father was in the Gulag for 7-8 years because he got encircled under Kiev and around half a million men surrendered there. Well just for surrendering most of them went to the Gulag just because Stalin after WW2 was finished. Don't get me wrong here, fathers side also was okay. My uncle here was the head of a construction bereu that made rockets. He made RPG-7 for example, so they also had enough money to live decently okay.

Now comes my father and mother generation. They absolutely hate the USSR for the cultural oppression, inability to speak out, inability to do a lot of things, inability to choose for themselves, inability to even do basic business. There was no choice besides the communist choice and the party line otherwise you would suffer consequences be it physical, professional, economical etc. Even if you had to support things that were clearly wrong. This coupled with the failings of the economy made them what they are i guess. Once again, they didn't live a bad life nor were they on the "poor" side of the spectrum. This is a consiouse choice from them to reject the system for its wrong doings of sorts.

There is a story that my father tells sometimes which long story short version is that he was a head for a group of professional workers that were responsible for maintaining pipeline infrastructure. It is still Soviet times. Half of the workers did their job okay but the other half basically always showed up drunk and barely worked at all. They couldn't be fired because the state mandated full employment and everyone got paid the same. So where is fairness in this? When half of the people work for themselves and the other half while getting paid the same? What is the motivating factor here to improve your work compared to the others if you still going to get paid the same? (This is a really small version of it, hopefully i got the point across)
#15107111
skinster wrote:JohnRawls, when he's not shilling for wars on poor countries, he's sharing his boring life stories that nobody cares about. :D

Back on topic:






The truth hurts, especially if it goes against what you believe in skinster. It is okay. Your conspiracy theories are a laugh as usually. :roll:
#15107124
JohnRawls wrote:...my father ... he was a head for a group of professional workers that were responsible for maintaining pipeline infrastructure. It is still Soviet times. Half of the workers did their job okay but the other half basically always showed up drunk and barely worked at all. They couldn't be fired because the state mandated full employment and everyone got paid the same. So where is fairness in this? When half of the people work for themselves and the other half while getting paid the same? What is the motivating factor here to improve your work compared to the others if you still going to get paid the same? (This is a really small version of it, hopefully i got the point across)

Your point seems to be that efficient oil pipeline construction requires mass sobriety. And while I don't necessarily disagree with your point, what is it doing in this thread?

Are oil pipelines and example of the "good work" that your family is involved in? Would the world be a better place if pipeline workers were less intoxicated?

Also, is there something about industrial work and the products that it produces that might trigger alcoholism or some other kind of escapism?

What lessons does "sober pipeline workers build better infra" have for the Maduro government that you would like to see coup d'etated? Was Venezuela more "sober" before its government took an interest in the well-being of the masses of people living there?
#15107130
QatzelOk wrote:Your point seems to be that efficient oil pipeline construction requires mass sobriety. And while I don't necessarily disagree with your point, what is it doing in this thread?

Are oil pipelines and example of the "good work" that your family is involved in? Would the world be a better place if pipeline workers were less intoxicated?

Also, is there something about industrial work and the products that it produces that might trigger alcoholism or some other kind of escapism?

What lessons does "sober pipeline workers build better infra" have for the Maduro government that you would like to see coup d'etated? Was Venezuela more "sober" before its government took an interest in the well-being of the masses of people living there?


Dude, what is up with you and oil. My father was involved with water pipelines within the city. You know, the infrastructure that pumps hot and cold water to the housing so people can drink and take showers etc :hmm:

I am not sure where you were heading with this. It was but one example of the failings in the economy of such systems as Venezuela. Just from the USSR. But there were more things mentioned so ?
#15107205
JohnRawls wrote:The truth hurts, especially if it goes against what you believe in skinster. It is okay. Your conspiracy theories are a laugh as usually. :roll:


"My family suffered something where they were economically always fine so destroying Venezuela is okay".

:lol:

I mean please, tell me more.
#15107327
skinster wrote:"My family suffered something where they were economically always fine so destroying Venezuela is okay".

:lol:

I mean please, tell me more.


Well, if that is how you understand it then i don't know. Only my grandfather suffered in the Gulag for no reason, the rest did fine. One larger point of the whole Rawls family experience exercise was to deliver a point. My parents didn't choose to reject the Soviet System because they lived badly, they decided to reject it because it was wrong in many ways compared to the Western system. By the way, majority of the people decided that in the SU and not just my parents. :roll:
#15107353
skinster wrote:This thread is about Venezuela, not your boring family.



It is related, I wouldn't post it otherwise. Your just don't want to admit it.
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