Mother of all ironies: Black man arrested for running over white BLM rioters - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15107123
Verv wrote:I think one of the main issues is something that has been true for decades...

Most people are not actually that interested in participating in democracy. When they do participate, it is for these fleeting moments, and their concerns are very practical.

"It's the economy, stupid!" is a poignant phrase because of this.

This motto could otherwise be referred to as bread and circuses, stupid!

Whether it is a leftist cause celebre, or a right wing story arc on virtue and patriotism, people tend to not be interested until it is visceral and they're forced to respond, and 9 times out of 10 intellectuals are dissatisfied with the simplicity of the answer that is given by them, and instead find a reason to appoint themselves demagogue.

It's a rough deal for us smartie folks because nobody cares & it's all a waste of time.

I wanted to quote this in part in full because it is rare for me to be able to go so go so many lines without disagreeing with a single word. What you have said here is the plain truth, the trouble is that so much political discourse seems to be assuming we are living in a very different world to the one we actually are.

And that is why this talk of people not paying attention to our protests is ultimately fruitless.

Well an awful lot of politics is forcing people who are not interested in our pet issues to be interested in them. For example Osama Bin Laden didn't think American troops should be in Saudi Arabia. He tried to get the American people and their government to pay attention with the African Embassies, the US Cole and other protests. With 9/11 he really forced the American people to pay attention, and all though things didn't work out quite the way he wanted he did get the troops out of Saudi Arabia.
#15107202
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Kelete is originally from Eritrea and he may not be familiar with America's highway system. Kelete's car was driving the wrong way up the Stewart Street I-5 exit ramp. He was travelling at high speed when he first noticed the demonstrators and he accidentally ran over some of the protesters, who were walking on the side street. The Jaguar XJL has a top speed of 174 mph and can launch from zero to 60 mph in 4.2 seconds.

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"There's absolutely nothing political about this case whatsoever," Browne told The Associated Press news agency. "My client is in tears. He's very remorseful. He feels tremendous guilt."

Kelete is originally from Eritrea, in northeastern Africa, and is a United States citizen, Browne said. He lives with his parents in Seattle, and they are very religious, he said.

A message seeking comment from Black Lives Matter Seattle-King County said they have no comment on the charges.

Kelete was the owner of the Jaguar XJL and was alone in the car, according to the state patrol.

A security camera on the REI building captured Kelete's car driving the wrong way up the Stewart Street I-5 exit ramp, past numerous warning signs that said "Wrong Way", according to the charging document. Since it was an exit ramp, "a driver must make a deliberate and sharp right U-turn in order to drive southbound on I-5", the document said.

Kelete was travelling at highway speeds when he first noticed the demonstrators, the document said.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/07/ ... 01321.html
#15107237
skinster wrote:Verv thinks America is actually a democracy. :D


Nothing is actually a democracy because consent is always being manufactured.

... But I can see how words could be played with and we could even just say that the consent that is manufactured is the will of the people, anyways, so it is democratic.

I think the Greeks envisioned democracy as limited voting to these citizens who were basically native men of the city in good standing, and being in good standing meant that you were known to be responsible with your money (and have it), and were morally uprigth. This would describe perhaps 10% or less of the population.

Universal suffrage, I imagine, would be something that they would have found inherently repugnant -- this would be just mob rule, and they would look at Chomsky exasperated and yell, "Of course, stupid! They are manufacturing consent because you let the rabble vote! What else would this be but mob rule?"

(Their togas would be coming undone, their nudity exposed to us, but they would be unaware because they are so animated -- living in the moment.)
#15107238
Again, I question whether you have ever been to Seattle, or any other city in the US. I don't know why you are even trying to argue this point QatzelOk. You seem to be much smarter than continuing to pursue this illogical and nonsensical argument.

If you wanted to have a visible and safe protest in Seattle, you wouldn't have it on the freeway at night. There are plenty of very public places in the downtown area where you could stage on.

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For instance, you could stage your protest at the Seattle Space Needle, which is in downtown where there are tons of tourists and locals alike.

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Or Pike's Place. From my memory, Pike's Place is surrounded by a huge park, like everywhere else in the downtown Seattle area that would be an idea spot to stage a protest. That is of course, if you were interested in legitimate protests and not harassing and/or attacking motorists.

QatzelOk wrote:Actually, the only way to get people to "listen" or "notice" a protest is to hold it right in their windshield.


Wrong!



Code Rood wrote:Black Lives Matter is a neo-Marxist project that was started by black lesbians, supported and funded by celebs, big corporations, and rich **** like George Soros.


Where is the lie tho?

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Black Lives Matter fundraising handled by group with convicted terrorist on its board

The co-founder of Black Lives Matter names a convicted cop killer as one of her heroes, and the BLM national organization is fiscally sponsored through a leftist group whose board of directors includes a convicted terrorist.

Alicia Garza, one of three co-founders of the Black Lives Matter national organization, has repeatedly talked about how convicted cop killer and wanted domestic terrorist Joanne Chesimard, also known as Assata Shakur, is one of her main inspirations. Susan Rosenberg, a member of the board of directors for the left-wing Thousand Currents group, which handles the intake of donations made to Black Lives Matter, is a convicted terrorist who, among other things, was suspected of helping Shakur escape from prison.

Rosenberg, who was listed as the vice chairwoman of the board of directors for Thousand Currents until the webpage was pulled down this week, as first reported by the Capital Research Center, had been a member of the radical leftist revolutionary militant group known as the May 19th Communist Organization, affiliated with the Weather Underground terrorist group and other radicals. She was convicted on weapons and explosives charges and sentenced to 58 years in prison, serving 16 years before being pardoned by President Bill Clinton in January 2001.

Thousand Currents did not return a request for comment.

Black Lives Matter, which is not a 501(c)(3) charitable group, uses an IRS-approved 501(c)(3) organization — Thousand Currents — as its fiscal sponsor, and so donations made on the Black Lives Matter website through the left-wing ActBlue donation platform go to Thousand Currents, which says it then distributes them to Black Lives Matter. Black Lives Matter has gained a vast amount of national attention, and funding, since the death in Minneapolis police custody of George Floyd on Memorial Day.

Rosenberg was a radical in the 1960s and 1970s who landed on the FBI’s Most Wanted List for a number of suspected crimes and was nabbed in 1984 while unloading from her car and into a New Jersey storage unit hundreds of pounds of dynamite along with weapons, including a sub-machine gun. She was believed to have been part of future politically motivated bombing plots. Rosenberg and her M19 associates were also charged with roles in bombings during the 1980s at the Capitol and the Navy War College, among other targets. They were also tied to a 1981 Brink’s armored car robbery that killed a guard and two police officers.
Last edited by maz on 14 Jul 2020 03:53, edited 1 time in total.
#15107239
QatzelOk wrote:Yes, when people living in alienated bourgeois societies are provoked into protesting, they are not really interested. This is partially because they are NOT involved in any kind of society, and have been trained to passively watch what oligarchs will do to them over time.

In socialist countries that have had to struggle to develop, there is a much stronger sense of a social cause, and it is much easier to get people to participate in their own survival..


I disagree with this... but yuor haert is in the right place and that is 90% o' the battle.

I think most people are not that invested in political narratives. Obviously, at different points in their life they show interest, just like at how different points in my life I have been intrigued by the big boxing match... But the average person is naturally not super invested in these things...

And the thing is, when they do get invested, they are unpredictable, and inclined to fracture.

I think every consensus naturally will undo itself because the grass is always greener.

The best state of being may be the apolitical state of being for the people who are not naturally inclined to the political.
#15107287
QatzelOk wrote:In socialist countries that have had to struggle to develop, there is a much stronger sense of a social cause, and it is much easier to get people to participate in their own survival.

Just out of curiosity, can you name a socialist country that fits this description?
#15107921
blackjack21 wrote:Just out of curiosity, can you name a socialist country that fits this description?

I have created an entire thread about Cuba that you can consult, blackjack21.

While in bourgeois countries where most people live within the confines of the false consciousness that mass media patiently feeds them every day, and are left unable to think or act in their own self-interest or in the interest of the community at large.

Your own personal attitude towards protestors - some of whom live in unnecessary fear and poverty - was that they inconvenienced you on your commute, therefore bad. This kind of "car addicted lack of empathy for humans" is a product of mass media brainwashing and a dumbed-down apololitical populace.

These are very, very bad things, and the lack of any kind of social momentum or community means that the oligarchs will pick your society clean before it collapses in front of everyone's glazed-over eyes.

maz wrote:you could stage your protest at the Seattle Space Needle

Or why not have a protest while riding a roller-coaster late on a rainy day when there's no one around to bother?
#15107966
QatzelOk wrote:While in bourgeois countries where most people live within the confines of the false consciousness that mass media patiently feeds them every day, and are left unable to think or act in their own self-interest or in the interest of the community at large.

Isn't what you are trying to say is that you know what's better for me than I do? Cuba is a one-party state. Protesting the communist government isn't exactly welcomed there. I don't think I have ever been accused of not being able to prosecute my own self interest.

So, exactly how do you think Cuba is better for protesting than the United States?



America will let you protest. People just must peaceably assemble. You don't just get to break the law, because you are frustrated with the government.

Cuba prevents protest over police killing of Black man

Yet, we've seen plenty of Democrat mayors allow people to break the law willy nilly. That doesn't seem to be the case in Cuba.

QatzelOk wrote:Your own personal attitude towards protestors - some of whom live in unnecessary fear and poverty - was that they inconvenienced you on your commute, therefore bad.

I work at home. I do not commute.

So you are saying that people in Cuba do not have any "unnecessary" fear and poverty?

QatzelOk wrote:This kind of "car addicted lack of empathy for humans" is a product of mass media brainwashing and a dumbed-down apololitical populace.

I think it has more to do with the hopeless inefficiency of trying to get people to understand what you are protesting one person at a time on a freeway, when you could protest in a public square and have mass media broadcast your frustrations all over the world.

QatzelOk wrote:These are very, very bad things, and the lack of any kind of social momentum or community means that the oligarchs will pick your society clean before it collapses in front of everyone's glazed-over eyes.

Cuba is not exactly a society where the cup runneth over. I'd say the cupboards are pretty bare and the Cuban oligarchs do not share in the poverty of the masses.
#15108186
blackjack21 wrote:So, exactly how do you think Cuba is better for protesting than the United States?

There are two ways in which Cuban society responds better to most people's needs than that of bourgeois North Atlantic capitalist countries like the USA.

1. Cuba had a revolution to get rid of its business class's ruling over everyone else.
The USA had an "independence" revolution to allow local businessmen to genocide more First Nations than the UK would allow at the time.

2. People's needs are built into the Cuban governance style in that it is bottom up. Cubans elect a local neighborhood official, who then nominates a higher up level of governance, etc. It all starts from the neighborhood level.
Contrast this to the USA, where a tiny clique of Big Money donors decides that Joe Biden - a brain-dead vassal for Big Money - gets the nomination with absolutely no popular demand from the little people of that country. It's only the "needs" of Big Capital that decide who all the potential leaders are.
#15108627
maz wrote:So you admit that the goal of the protest is to bother people?

Not just to bother people, but to shut down society to display incredible displeasure where the leaders are taking it. It's a way of saying "this will not stand!"

How is bothering people an effective strategy for whatever your kooky goal is?

Well, just sit still in a dark corner silently playing with string for the rest of your life, and see how far that gets you.

Look, maz, rich corporations have their way of changing things too. They give a few million dollars to the right people who then go on to lie to people like me and you. This is why rich people don't need to protest: they can buy democracies off in bourgeois countries like ours, and the population is too stupid and numb to realize it's being robbed clean of both civil rights and financial stability.

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