Election 2020 - Page 157 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By blackjack21
#15107583
Beren wrote:Would you, please, show me a macroeconomic equation with stock market indices? I haven't seen one yet.

That's because macroeconomic equations deal with prices as a whole, not smaller constituents.

Image
If money supply(M) increases, generally prices(P) increase too. There is plenty of money supply(M) growth, if you haven't noticed. Unsurprisingly, the price (P) of the stock market is going up as a result.

jimjam wrote:Future historians will regard this as the Trump Plague and the Trump Depression.

They will regard it as the Trump miracle that the stock market was only down for a few months. They will regard the Democrats of developing a new n-word, non-essential, for America's more vulnerable workers.

jimjam wrote:The millions of deaths and the trillions of dollars lost worldwide will be due largely to Trump’s narcissism and obsessive hatred toward Obama.

He he he! People are not dying because of Trump's hatred of Obama. :roll: Are you sure those are cigars you are smoking?

jimjam wrote:There can be no progress in health or economics until Trump leaves office in Jan. 2021.

I can hear Hail to the Chief playing for Trump right now. It must be a contact high from all the smoke you're blowing. :lol:

annatar1914 wrote:What I do think is that the regular process in American history of one party in the two-party system imploding and then a similar party forming up to replace it, isn't going to happen this time.

Do you have a thought as to why? Dr. Steve Turley posits that it is because of the clash between modernism and postmodernism on the left. I've teed it up at 7:30 so you don't have to listen to the rest of his polemics:



What do you think of his theory?

JohnRawls wrote:They are both supposed to look after the US economy and this is what they are doing.

It's a bit of a tacit admission that Trump was right, and Biden is probably very nervous about the Democrats having alienated the white working class voters. This is only getting worse with all the BLM riots and the perceived need to lock down again.

XogGyux wrote: it is better for us to be the ones selling the robots to everyone else than to let china do the robots with their cheap labor and sell them to us :knife:

It's not where robots are made that is as important as where they are deployed. Or to put it another way, it's not where robots are produced that has the big economic impact, it's where they are deployed to produce other goods and services that has the big economic impact.

Hindsite wrote:In my opinion, Trump has done a good job as President, even as the Democrats try to undermine him every step of the way. That is why I will be voting for him in November. Also he is younger and sharper than dementia Joe Biden.

The Democrats have basically become unhinged. It's amazing to me that Joe Biden was the best they could do.

XogGyux wrote:ROFL, so Fauci in his 70's is too old for his job.

Fauci just played both sides for too long, so he has serious credibility issues along with many other politicians and bureaucrats. Even a Canadian can see this plainly:



Drlee wrote:As a CNN reporter said tonight, the White House is staffed with "Kool-Aid drinkers and next of kin".

So you're one of the few hundred thousand people who still watch CNN?

Drlee wrote:Trump spent 50 minutes making a campaign speech in the rose garden. This is something that no other president would ever have done.

Presidents are pretty much always putting their political ambitions front and center.

Drlee wrote:Sessions was defeated by a football coach in Alabama today.

Sessions was defeated by Chuck Schumer years ago. He's just finally realized it.

Drlee wrote:Of course the leadership of the CDC does not have the moral courage to resign en mass.

Or perhaps the savings accounts. Nobody wants to leave a stable paying job to look for something while Democrats are baying for lockdowns again. It makes it hard to get a job, and it makes people nervous if they can't make ends meet for awhile.

Drlee wrote:Arizona still does not have statewide mandatory masks.

See the Viva Frei vlog above. Fauci and others campaigned against the public using masks dishonestly, as a diversion to keep healthcare workers supplied. It's pretty obvious these people are liars, so basically people just don't believe them anymore. Viva Frei notes that Canada actually sent PPP to China and then suffered as China hoarded PPP, and Canada was as dependent on China for PPP as the US was. The only mainstream politician out there warning us about China is Trump. The rest of the emperors have no clothes.
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By annatar1914
#15107593
@blackjack21 , regarding my comments about the (un-witting and un-foreseen to be sure) self-destruction of the Democratic Party, you asked me why, rhetorically;


Do you have a thought as to why? Dr. Steve Turley posits that it is because of the clash between modernism and postmodernism on the left. I've teed it up at 7:30 so you don't have to listen to the rest of his polemics:



What do you think of his theory?


;)

It's part of what I've been discussing on my ''.... Raising the Black Flag in an age of Devilry" thread in the ''spirituality'' sub-forum, check it out sometime. :) . Turley is essentially correct, whatever else he is on other matters, in that ethno-nationalism/tribalism and civic nationalism are the ''new'' political options in political life, that the former is Post-Modern contra the Modern Liberalism... Except that as I mentioned when discussing John Lukacs, ''Conservatism'' is also ''Modern Liberalism''. Civic Nationalism (at least prior to today's Modernist version of Civic Nationalism) is only possible to maintain in Empires, historically, while the Post Modern or rather Anti Modern Tribalism and Ethno-Nationalism is more organic and natural of a human development. How I personally square that understanding while still remaining a Socialist of sorts is one of the themes of the aforementioned thread I noted. Turley is not wrong, no, this is the end of Liberalism for sure.

I don't know though how the other will ultimately play out right here in North America however, I suspect though it might be less painful and less dramatic a shift as some doom and gloom mongers might suggest. We have to be realistic between the Sylla of a rancorous and reactionary pessimism and a Charybdis of out of touch optimism on this.
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By JohnRawls
#15107609
@blackjack21 I never said that Trump is always wrong. Trump can be right also. But that is rare like a broken clock to be honest. One of things that Hillary failed at is to provide a good message on the economy and hence she lost. Probably was the biggest mistake for her. Biden is just smarter compared to her, at least, on this. Clinton told Hillary that she is ignoring the economy too much and she didn't listen.

Come to think of it. What is your opinion on Trump nepotism and cronyism? For example attempts to discredit Fauchi recently?
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By Beren
#15107658
blackjack21 wrote:That's because macroeconomic equations deal with prices as a whole, not smaller constituents.

Image
If money supply(M) increases, generally prices(P) increase too. There is plenty of money supply(M) growth, if you haven't noticed. Unsurprisingly, the price (P) of the stock market is going up as a result.

Sure, stocks are parts of the money supply too, however, I mean if economists actually use or deal with stock market indices while doing macroeconomics and analysing how healthy an economy is, like they use output, growth rate, inflation rate, interest rate, (un)employment rate, etc. figures.

To put it simply, are stock market indices macroeconomic data?
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By Drlee
#15107667
For the purpose of the election.

Increasingly economic indicators that we are fed, (stock market, unemployment, GDP, etc.) have only limited impact on voters. While they are the totality of Trump's message they are resonating with fewer and fewer voters. Two reasons.

First is that a great many voters do not understand them. Of course they want to be happy and there is a great deal of value in telling people that they are (or ought to be).

The second is that an increasing number of people simply are not happy. They are not experiencing the fruits of rising indicators. They do not make substantially more money. Even a five percent increase in pay for a low income worker does not result in a noticeably better lifestyle. Biden is very good at telling people this. He is known as 'middle class Joe' and the contrast between Trump and him is stark.

And there is a lagging indicator coming which Trump and the Republicans have taken not a single step to fix. That is the effect of foreclosures and evictions because of people being off of work. (We can leave commercial real estate aside for a moment.) I would have expected the Dems to be screaming about this but, sadly, I think they are just giving the Republicans enough rope. They forwarded a bill which McConnell did not allow to be voted upon so they are just letting it sit for now.

I do not count Trump out. He and the republican party are completely without a moral base (and yes I include their fundamentalist Christians) so they will lie, cheat and steal in a fashion never seen before. We will see. It will probably be that Corona virus will be Trump's undoing. It is really odd too. It should have been the thing that let him waltz to victory. Any politician given such a gift of a leadership opportunity would have won hands down. It is better than a war in that regard.

On Edit: Trump is being slammed with independents by the Lincoln Project. It will be a game changer because it is not constrained at all.
User avatar
By Oxymoron
#15107674
Drlee wrote:et him waltz to victory. Any politician given such a gift of a leadership opportunity would have won hands down. It is better than a war in that regard.

On Edit: Trump is being slammed with independents by the Lincoln Project. It will be a game changer because it is not constrained at all.


Useful Idiots or Traitors or both.
User avatar
By blackjack21
#15107720
JohnRawls wrote:One of things that Hillary failed at is to provide a good message on the economy and hence she lost. Probably was the biggest mistake for her. Biden is just smarter compared to her, at least, on this. Clinton told Hillary that she is ignoring the economy too much and she didn't listen.

I think the Democrats are weaker than you think. They have such a blind hatred of Trump, that to Democrats message discipline is perceived as nothing more sophisticated than everyone agreeing Trump is the devil, or "Orange man bad" as many put it. Biden is in a bad spot on the economy, because blue state Democrats are locking down and it mostly hurts working class people who want to go back to work, while the very same politicians are encouraging BLM protests causing huge problems for those very same retail businesses while also increasing the transmission of coronavirus.

JohnRawls wrote:Come to think of it. What is your opinion on Trump nepotism and cronyism? For example attempts to discredit Fauchi recently?

I've had a dim opinion of Fauci for months now. So I don't think Trump is discrediting Fauci, but recognizing that Fauci already discredited himself. Fauci is sort of a gadfly at this point. As for nepotism, only Trump's daughter and son-in-law really foot that bill. I'm a bit leery of Kushner. Trump has caused himself a lot of problems by having kept Obama holdovers and some of his lifelong Democrat friends around.

Beren wrote:However, I mean if economists actually use or deal with stock market indices while doing macroeconomics and analysing how healthy an economy is, like they use output, growth rate, inflation rate, interest rate, (un)employment rate, etc. figures.

They look at it like a proxy for M3/M4 money supply, although it's not technically money. Corporations very often have treasury stock, very common right now since there have been so many share buybacks. So companies can sell some treasury stock to raise cash pretty easily. It's not a CD or a money market fund, but it's readily convertible to cash. However, stock markets are speculative and tend to become irrational at points, so they are not used as a first-line indicator. Drlee had asked the question sincerely about if stock market prices go down, where does the money go. It disappears. The net effect is that money supply decreases. That's why the stock market is said to have a "wealth effect" or its opposite.
By Finfinder
#15107727
blackjack21 wrote:I think the Democrats are weaker than you think. They have such a blind hatred of Trump, that to Democrats message discipline is perceived as nothing more sophisticated than everyone agreeing Trump is the devil, or "Orange man bad" as many put it. Biden is in a bad spot on the economy, because blue state Democrats are locking down and it mostly hurts working class people who want to go back to work, while the very same politicians are encouraging BLM protests causing huge problems for those very same retail businesses while also increasing the transmission of coronavirus. .


I'll add..... The Democrats literally have a cut off your nose to spite your face game plan. Nothing would surprise me going forward. Biden is way way worse than Hillary Clinton. First off if Biden is elected he will be impeached. Second I'm not so sure Biden is going to even be there in the end , he can't debate and he can't do live television, it's possible they will make history at the DNC convention. After all these liberals cannot govern unless they lie cheat or rig the system.

Tell me with a straight face you think Biden is the guy best suited to have his fingers on the nukes!!! :lol: Long shot dark horse money bet is the Beast. :D
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By Beren
#15107731
blackjack21 wrote:However, stock markets are speculative and tend to become irrational at points, so they are not used as a first-line indicator.

Stock market indices are not macroeconomic figures whatsoever, you won't find them in any real macroeconomic analysis, like doctors won't ask you to measure your daily mood somehow to help them set up diagnoses and treatments for you like they do according to your blood pressure, for example, which is a real medical data.
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By Drlee
#15107732
First off if Biden is elected he will be impeached.


:lol: You are the king of made-up bullshit. Care to tell me on what charges? And care to tell me how the republicans plan to get control of the House of Representative and 75% of the Senate? There is no chance that Biden is going to get impeached. None.

Second I'm not so sure Biden is going to even be there in the end , he can't debate and he can't do live television, it's possible they will make history at the DNC convention.


First. As JimJam sagely suggested, Biden should insist that Trump release his tax records as a condition of debate. If I was him I would not bother to debate Trump. I would just run ads about Trump's lies.

You further made the absurd statement that Biden can't do live television. He did it very well three times last week. As you confine yourself to Britbart and Stormfront no doubt you missed it.


Tell me with a straight face you think Biden is the guy best suited to have his fingers on the nukes!!!


I would rather have six monkeys playing with the button that Trump. He is far too mentally unstable for that responsibility. Fortunately the military would not let him start a nuclear war. There are adults over in the pentagon who would stop him.

Oh. And by the way Skippy. Biden is not a "liberal". He is more conservative than Trump by a long ways.
User avatar
By Potemkin
#15107734
Beren wrote:Stock market indices are not macroeconomic figures whatsoever, you won't find them in any real macroeconomic analysis, like doctors won't ask you to measure your daily mood somehow to help them set up diagnoses and treatments for you like they do according to your blood pressure, for example, which is a real medical data.

Indeed. Keynes believed that the stock market, among other things, was and is governed by what he called "animal spirits"....
John Maynard Keynes wrote:Even apart from the instability due to speculation, there is the instability due to the characteristic of human nature that a large proportion of our positive activities depend on spontaneous optimism rather than mathematical expectations, whether moral or hedonistic or economic. Most, probably, of our decisions to do something positive, the full consequences of which will be drawn out over many days to come, can only be taken as the result of animal spirits—a spontaneous urge to action rather than inaction, and not as the outcome of a weighted average of quantitative benefits multiplied by quantitative probabilities.
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By jimjam
#15107750
Don The Con held a "news conference" yesterday at times, it was hard to understand what he meant. He seemed to suggest that his presumptive Democratic challenger, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., would get rid of windows if elected and later said that Mr. Biden would “abolish the suburbs.” He complained that Mr. Biden had “gone so far right.” (He meant left.)

While we anxiously await Donald's plan to provide affordable health care to all Americans we must, in the meantime, sit thru incomprehensible nonsense like this which he spewed out yesterday: “We have great agreements where when Biden and Obama used to bring killers out, they would say don’t bring them back to our country, we don’t want them. Well, we have to, we don’t want them. They wouldn’t take them. Now with us, they take them. Someday, I’ll tell you why. Someday, I’ll tell you why. But they take them and they take them very gladly. They used to bring them out and they wouldn’t even let the airplanes land if they brought them back by airplanes. They wouldn’t let the buses into their country. They said we don’t want them. Said no, but they entered our country illegally and they’re murderers, they’re killers in some cases.” And he and his suck ups say Biden is senile …… :lol:
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By Potemkin
#15107755
jimjam wrote:Don The Con held a "news conference" yesterday at times, it was hard to understand what he meant. He seemed to suggest that his presumptive Democratic challenger, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr., would get rid of windows if elected and later said that Mr. Biden would “abolish the suburbs.” He complained that Mr. Biden had “gone so far right.” (He meant left.)

While we anxiously await Donald's plan to provide affordable health care to all Americans we must, in the meantime, sit thru incomprehensible nonsense like this which he spewed out yesterday: “We have great agreements where when Biden and Obama used to bring killers out, they would say don’t bring them back to our country, we don’t want them. Well, we have to, we don’t want them. They wouldn’t take them. Now with us, they take them. Someday, I’ll tell you why. Someday, I’ll tell you why. But they take them and they take them very gladly. They used to bring them out and they wouldn’t even let the airplanes land if they brought them back by airplanes. They wouldn’t let the buses into their country. They said we don’t want them. Said no, but they entered our country illegally and they’re murderers, they’re killers in some cases.” And he and his suck ups say Biden is senile …… :lol:

I strongly suspect that Donald Trump has spoken like that all his life.
By Finfinder
#15107757
:lol: You are the king of made-up bullshit. Care to tell me on what charges?



I thought your ilk established a new standard for calling for impeach prior to an opposition candidate even being elected.

:First. As JimJam sagely suggested, Biden should insist that Trump release his tax records as a condition of debate. If I was him I would not bother to debate Trump. I would just run ads about Trump's lies. .


Talk about bull shitting are saying that the challenger for the presidency has leverage? :lol: You need to stick to faking Covid cases because that's funny. Only a coward would run and make excuses for not debating to earn the job as president of the United States.

:You further made the absurd statement that Biden can't do live television. He did it very well three times last week. As you confine yourself to Britbart and Stormfront no doubt you missed it.


Wow that's sounds so presidential he did very well three times. I'm sure the other 30 people who saw it thought the same. Joe Biden for president, he does very well. :lol: :lol:

:I would rather have six monkeys playing with the button that Trump. He is far too mentally unstable for that responsibility. Fortunately the military would not let him start a nuclear war. There are adults over in the pentagon who would stop him. .


More incredible political analysis written in the style that Joe Biden and his supporters can understand.

:lol: You are the king of made-up bullshit.

Oh. And by the way Skippy. Biden is not a "liberal". He is more conservative than Trump by a long ways.


"You" meaning you were projecting. Doesn't get more entertaining than that.
#15107758
@JohnRawls

JohnRawls wrote:I never said that Trump is always wrong. Trump can be right also. But that is rare like a broken clock to be honest. One of things that Hillary failed at is to provide a good message on the economy and hence she lost. Probably was the biggest mistake for her. Biden is just smarter compared to her, at least, on this. Clinton told Hillary that she is ignoring the economy too much and she didn't listen.

Come to think of it. What is your opinion on Trump nepotism and cronyism? For example attempts to discredit Fauchi recently?


I voted for Hillary Clinton in this past election for President in 2016. Hillary Clinton was very qualified to be President of the U.S. She isn't naive either and Putin certainly didn't want to see Hillary Clinton elected. I don't think Hillary got a fair shake personally from the voters that did vote in that past election.

I personally think the reason why she wasn't elected wasn't because of her lack of qualifications but a big part of it (though not necessarily all of it) was the fact that she was a woman. She out debated Trump in every debate on live national TV. She has far more experience than Trump and has far better and far more leadership qualities. She isn't perfect but who is? I think Clinton got a raw deal from the voters in 2016 and thus the voters themselves are getting a raw deal from Trump.
User avatar
By Beren
#15107761
Politics_Observer wrote:I personally think the reason why she wasn't elected...was the fact that she was a woman.

She made a big mistake emphasizing it so much then, didn't she? :lol:
By Finfinder
#15107763
Politics_Observer wrote:@JohnRawls



I voted for Hillary Clinton in this past election for President in 2016. Hillary Clinton was very qualified to be President of the U.S. She isn't naive either and Putin certainly didn't want to see Hillary Clinton elected. I don't think Hillary got a fair shake personally from the voters that did vote in that past election.

I personally think the reason why she wasn't elected wasn't because of her lack of qualifications but a big part of it (though not necessarily all of it) was the fact that she was a woman. She out debated Trump in every debate on live national TV. She has far more experience than Trump and has far better and far more leadership qualities. She isn't perfect but who is? I think Clinton got a raw deal from the voters in 2016 and thus the voters themselves are getting a raw deal from Trump.


Hillary Clinton did not win the election because she and her husband are completely corrupt. She rigged the primary with Sanders, tried to rig the presidential election, had the media and deep state on her side, and still couldn't get it done. Hillary Clinton is Joe Biden with an actual pulse. She is more fake then Bidens hair plugs. If she runs again she will lose again.
#15107768
@Finfinder

Hillary Clinton can't control everything that the Democratic party does. I also think she was more qualified to be President than Bernie Sanders too.
By Finfinder
#15107769
Politics_Observer wrote:@Finfinder

Hillary Clinton can't control everything that the Democratic party does. I also think she was more qualified to be President than Bernie Sanders too.


Hillary Clinton can control her own corruption. What happen with the the pay to play Clinton foundation? Seems it doesn't work anymore since she is out of access and favors for sale.

Lots of people are qualified, electable is a different story, and she is just too corrupt, fake, and unlikeable.
#15107770
@Finfinder

Well, if there is one thing I can say in favor of Bernie is that he is genuine and not fake. Still, I don't think he was qualified to be President regardless.
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