Statistically, is Coronavirus now Less Dangerous than Heart Disease? [High Effort Post] - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15110416
BeesKnee5 wrote:So you accept the figures on the WHO site appear to be ad-hoc yet want to beleive they are correct.


I see no reason to assume figures from individual states or CDC are wrong.

But like, you are on the "more COVID lockdowns side" of the forum and I'm using the statistics that your side would want to use? You appear to be against using them now just because I used them. You guys are funny.
#15110418
Wulfschilde wrote:But like, you are on the "more COVID lockdowns side" of the forum and I'm using the statistics that your side would want to use? You appear to be against using them now just because I used them. You guys are funny.
That make zero sense.

We have three sources, if we look across the three sources then we can draw a conclusion both about reliability and trends.

If you want to select the one that suits your theory then by all means fill your boots and cherry pick away.
#15110421
BeesKnee5 wrote:That make zero sense.

We have three sources, if we look across the three sources then we can draw a conclusion both about reliability and trends.

If you want to select the one that suits your theory then by all means fill your boots and cherry pick away.

OK so, which source would you use? And what's your source besides the CDC and the WHO?
#15110426
BeesKnee5 wrote:Worldometers.info takes the details published from each state.

John Hopkins university also publish data based on available information.
Coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map

Well, now we're up to four. It really muddies the waters to try and use so many different sources when people are already time framing the data pretty strongly. You really think the WHO isn't credible because they have one negative day in their graph?
#15110438
Wulfschilde wrote:Well, now we're up to four. It really muddies the waters to try and use so many different sources when people are already time framing the data pretty strongly. You really think the WHO isn't credible because they have one negative day in their graph?


I disagree, the more sources, the more you can cross reference.

I'm not saying the WHO aren't credible, I'm saying the data presented is clearly from an intermittent source, one day 5000 deaths, the next 10.
#15110439
But that only happened like one time and there's numerous plausible explanations for it.

Anyway, I'm not hoping around to different sources all the time. It's bad enough as it is trying to use just one source, I'm not expanding any of my posts to four sources. Sorry!
#15110485
Wulfschilde wrote:But that only happened like one time and there's numerous plausible explanations for it.

Anyway, I'm not hoping around to different sources all the time. It's bad enough as it is trying to use just one source, I'm not expanding any of my posts to four sources. Sorry!
Don't be sorry, I completely understand why you would feel reassured by looking at the data you like best.
#15110542
BeesKnee5 wrote:Don't be sorry, I completely understand why you would feel reassured by looking at the data you like best.

That's not even what I'm doing though. I prefer the CDC data. I'm using this because it satisfies more people. But some dude who wants to compare and contrast four different data sets while being unable to accept any one of them is not a good use of my time. I'm here for entertainment and not to pretend that it's making some kind of difference in this international thing.
#15110553
Wulfschilde wrote:I prefer the CDC data. I'm using this because it satisfies more people.
Science isn't there to satisfy people unless it's not actually science, but propaganda. The CDC is being side-linged by Trump's government for political goals.

The Trump administration must stop sidelining the CDC
The US government needs to strengthen the agency charged with preventing the spread of disease — not undermine it.

Earlier this month, the administration of President Donald Trump chose to transfer responsibility for coronavirus data collection, management and sharing. This task, previously within the remit of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) — the public-health agency respected around the globe for collecting and analysing disease-surveillance data — was handed to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). This is the CDC’s parent institution, and its head, Alex Azar, is answerable to the president.

The change, implemented on 10 July, has caused confusion, both in hospitals and among public-health departments that work to provide data to the CDC. Measures must be implemented immediately to ensure that the transition is managed in an open and science-friendly way, and that politicians do not use the change to bypass researchers and sway the public-health response to the pandemic to suit their narrative. Many say that the Trump administration has tried to do this repeatedly throughout the pandemic.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02231-6

Wulfschilde wrote:I'm here for entertainment and not to pretend that it's making some kind of difference in this international thing.
Oh, ok so you are just trolling and we shouldn't take your bullshit seriously. Thank you for asserting that.

:moron:
#15110555
Wulfschilde wrote:That's not even what I'm doing though. I prefer the CDC data. I'm using this because it satisfies more people. But some dude who wants to compare and contrast four different data sets while being unable to accept any one of them is not a good use of my time. I'm here for entertainment and not to pretend that it's making some kind of difference in this international thing.


Well you are certainly entertaining. Why anyone would think or even believe that someone else thinks words on a forum change the facts is beyond me.

This is what happened when CDC was removed from the data collection for cases.
Image

Do you see this as a coincidence?
Do you trust that the number of cases has stopped rising?

Right now I'm happy to wait and see, hoping that it's true but not taking it for granted.
#15110556
Thanks Beesnkees!

I would consider that the trends tend to be roughly the same throughout the world and as I previously noted, the emerging conspiracy theory that Trump is suppressing the numbers is probably going to have an uphill battle in that greater context.

The pro-lockdown people have obviously won up until now but as therapeutics like HCQ become widespread and vaccines become available, it will be interesting to see if they still push for lockdowns so that Biden doesn't have to debate Trump, keep the economy suppressed etc.
#15110558
Wulfschilde wrote:Thanks Beesnkees!

I would consider that the trends tend to be roughly the same throughout the world and as I previously noted, the emerging conspiracy theory that Trump is suppressing the numbers is probably going to have an uphill battle in that greater context.

The pro-lockdown people have obviously won up until now but as therapeutics like HCQ become widespread and vaccines become available, it will be interesting to see if they still push for lockdowns so that Biden doesn't have to debate Trump, keep the economy suppressed etc.


I'm not interested in conspiracy theories and none of what you have types is true.

Yesterday saw the highest number of cases globally, the trend is for a continuous rise in daily case rates.

What does pro-lockdown mean?
It means that if you lose control of transmission then you restrict movement for a short period to break the chain, it doesn't mean you want people locked in their homes for weeks. I'm not pro-lockdown, but if you want to prevent spread then you must take action, it wont just disappear if people don't socially distance or use masks when that isnt possible, continue to congregate indoors and pretend nothing has changed.

HCQ isnt a theraputic. The guy who first proposed it runs a hospital in france that has three times higher death rate from covid than the average. No research has been able to show it saves lives, what they all show is it reduces viral load but the side effects in very sick people makes them more likely to become seriously ill or die. Remsvidir and a few other anti-virals have shown the best results so far.

This is a virus we are talking about, it doesnt care whether you vote Trump or Biden. All that matters is that transmission is reduced so that fewer get ill and there is less death while waiting for vaccines become available.

Do you really think that Trump is so weak that the democrats could prevent him from debating Biden?
If this is true then it sounds like he's already lost control of events.
#15110561
BeesKnee5 wrote:I'm not interested in conspiracy theories and none of what you have types is true.

Yesterday saw the highest number of cases globally, the trend is for a continuous rise in daily case rates.

What does pro-lockdown mean?
It means that if you lose control of transmission then you restrict movement for a short period to break the chain, it doesn't mean you want people locked in their homes for weeks. I'm not pro-lockdown, but if you want to prevent spread then you must take action, it wont just disappear if people don't socially distance or use masks when that isnt possible, continue to congregate indoors and pretend nothing has changed.

HCQ isnt a theraputic. The guy who first proposed it runs a hospital in france that has three times higher death rate from covid than the average. No research has been able to show it saves lives, what they all show is it reduces viral load but the side effects in very sick people makes them more likely to become seriously ill or die. Remsvidir and a few other anti-virals have shown the best results so far.

This is a virus we are talking about, it doesnt care whether you vote Trump or Biden. All that matters is that transmission is reduced so that fewer get ill and there is less death while waiting for vaccines become available.

Do you really think that Trump is so weak that the democrats could prevent him from debating Biden?
If this is true then it sounds like he's already lost control of events.

The rises aren't very much. I was reading an article about flights resuming in Asia, even though there has been a "spike in cases". It said that there were 100 new cases in China (population over 1 billion) and 900 new cases in Japan (population over 100 million) but those crazy bastards are working on resuming flights anyway, although with testing facilities for the disease to be set up first.

The thing to note here is that even after we have vaccines, the left is not going to be like "OK, let's open up again." They will want things to be shut down through the election period, I guarantee it. They will go full tinfoil hat on the CDC and the rest of the world if necessary.
#15110564
Wulfschilde wrote:.

The thing to note here is that even after we have vaccines, the left is not going to be like "OK, let's open up again." They will want things to be shut down through the election period, I guarantee it. They will go full tinfoil hat on the CDC and the rest of the world if necessary.


Your timeline doesn't work, there is no way a vaccine will be available for all this side of Christmas.
#15110565
BeesKnee5 wrote:Your timeline doesn't work, there is no way a vaccine will be available for all this side of Christmas.

According to who? A few major companies have said that they might have vaccines out by September.

Even if they were two months behind schedule that might still be in time for US elections.
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