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By Godstud
#15088085
Sivad wrote:it's hilarious that people are still trying to pretend like corona is the black death.
Tell that to families of the 63,000 Americans who have died from it, :moron: ! More Americans have died of Covid-19, than in all the years of the Vietnam War.

[KS mod edit: Rule 2]
By Rich
#15088089
Godstud wrote:Tell that to families of the 63,000 Americans who have died from it, :moron: ! More Americans have died of Covid-19, than in all the years of the Vietnam War.

And more Americans died of the 1957 China virus, but the lack of swift national lockdown from Eisenhower rarely seems to be mentioned in political histories of time.
Last edited by Rich on 01 May 2020 10:22, edited 1 time in total.
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By Godstud
#15088091
Rich wrote:And more Americans died of the 1957 China virus, but the lack of swift national lockdown from Eisenhower rarely seems to be mentioned in political histories of time.
A Whataboutism. The American medical system isn't at 1957 technology, and neither is information technology.

Why don't you mention the Spanish Flu of 1918, that was stopped because of social distancing and quarantine?
User avatar
By QatzelOk
#15090850
Godstud wrote:Why don't you mention the Spanish Flu of 1918

Exactly.

You are supposed to mention the Spanish Flu of 1918, along with body bags, the unbelievable climb in cases since we started testing (!), and the infected walking among us.
This is what you're supposed to say. It's like the following:

Simon says: "Provoke Panic"
Science says: "Provoke Panic"

Science is like Simon. When he "says" something, you have to follow along, or you lose the game.

Now, let's consult one of our private-profit, advertising-funded media to see what Science is going to tell us to do today...
User avatar
By Donna
#15092783
Rich wrote:And more Americans died of the 1957 China virus, but the lack of swift national lockdown from Eisenhower rarely seems to be mentioned in political histories of time.


Let's compare numbers after next winter.
By pugsville
#15092785
Sivad wrote:it's hilarious that people are still trying to pretend like corona is the black death.


Nobody every said it was. Nobody is saying it now.

It's extreme misrepresentation.
User avatar
By Ter
#15092805
Image

https://elemental.medium.com/every-covi ... 1d47584096

Every Covid-19 Symptom We Know About Right Now, From Head to Toe

The most perplexing things about a disease that has proved vexing, deadly, and ‘unprecedented in many ways’

The novel coronavirus seems able to infiltrate just about every inch of the human body, from the brain to the heart and lungs, into the gut, and right down to the toes, causing a dizzying array of symptoms ranging from annoying to fatal. It’s a list that doctors expect to grow even longer.

“It’s been unprecedented in many ways,” says Robert Salata, MD, a professor of medicine in epidemiology and international health at Ohio’s Case Western Reserve University. “In terms of the complications we’re seeing, it’s incredible.”

Covid-19 is among the most dangerous and intractable new viral diseases seen in years, perhaps decades. It “can attack almost anything in the body with devastating consequences,” says Harlan Krumholz, MD, a cardiologist at Yale New Haven Hospital. “Its ferocity is breathtaking and humbling.”

Severe cases often involve two phases, explains Mahalia Desruisseaux, MD, an associate professor of internal medicine focusing on infectious diseases at Yale University School of Medicine. As with the flu or other viral infections, Covid-19 typically subsides after several days, because the immune system mounts a response and neutralizes the virus, Desruisseaux says. But for some people, especially those over 65 and those with underlying health conditions and sometimes even in healthy adults and even children, a second phase kicks in.

Cells in key organs and entire body systems can become inflamed and damaged irreparably, and the risk of deadly blood clots skyrockets.

“The inflammatory response to the virus gets disproportionately exaggerated, triggering massive inflammation in several organs,” Desruisseaux says. “The flu-like viral illness seems to start to get better, and then boom, the overactive immune response just hits.”

Cells in key organs and entire body systems can become inflamed and damaged irreparably, and the risk of deadly blood clots skyrockets. “It’s our own immune system going haywire,” Salata tells Elemental.

Here are most of the known symptoms of Covid-19, followed below by deeper explanations for some of the strangest aspects of the disease.

The strangest cases

The coronavirus infection begins mainly in the throat, and for many people, it may not go beyond that. But in some cases, the virus dives deep into the lungs, or the mucus-encased viruses can slide from the throat into the stomach. From there, it can spread elsewhere through the entire digestive system and into the bloodstream.

The lungs contain a large concentration of cells that have receptors for SARS-CoV-2, meaning the virus can easily gain entry to the cells, hijacking their genetic machinery in order to reproduce. This process damages or destroys lung cells and triggers the massive immune response, often leading to hospitalization.

But those same receptor cells exist in blood vessels, in the brain-blood barrier, in the intestines, and in nerve endings, possibly explaining why this coronavirus is able to wreak havoc in so many areas of the body.
Brain swelling and confusion

Fever and headaches can be signs of many illnesses, and they are symptoms of Covid-19, too. Some people have gone to health care facilities in states of confusion or disorientation, sometimes with headaches and fever, sometimes not, only to be diagnosed with Covid-19.

In one case study, brain scans revealed swelling on the brain of a Covid-19 patient, a condition known in other viral infections to cause altered mental status and seizures. One study of 214 Covid-19 patients found 36.4% had neurological symptoms, including dizziness, headaches, impaired consciousness, and seizures.

It’s not yet known if the coronavirus actually infects the brain or if the brain-related symptoms happen because the disease’s impact on the lungs also rob the brain of oxygen.“It is very difficult to separate the two,” says Chethan Rao, MD, a practicing physician and associate professor of neurology and neurosurgery at Baylor College of Medicine Medical Center.
Cytokine storm

When people infected with Covid-19 develop the classic symptom of breathing difficulty, it’s because the coronavirus has infected the lungs and the immune system is at work.

Most patients recover. But if the infection persists, the immune system goes into overdrive, releasing a flood of inflammatory proteins, called cytokines, that contribute to cell death and lead to acute respiratory distress syndrome.

When a cytokine storm strikes, lung tissue can become irreversibly scarred, the lungs fill with fluid, and patients often die. The flood of cytokines also fuels an overload of white blood cells, one of the body’s primary protectors which, in the confusion, begins to attack healthy cells, according to a May 13 study in the journal Frontiers in Public Health. This overaction by the immune system causes hyperinflammation in tissues that can also affect other parts of the body by causing leaky blood vessels, extremely low blood pressure, and a lack of oxygen in the blood.
Silent hypoxia and Covid pneumonia

Some people with Covid-19 develop dangerously low levels of oxygen in their blood but otherwise don’t feel terribly sick. They might complain of mild flu-like symptoms and perhaps a little shortness of breath or maybe just tiredness.

The condition has been called silent hypoxia and resembles the low oxygen levels a person suffers when breathing the thin air at high altitudes. These people are in critical condition, though they don’t realize it. (X-rays reveal their air sacs in the lungs are filled with fluid or pus.) The low oxygen levels, untreated, can quickly cascade into serious breathing problems and damage to other organs.

Scientists don’t know exactly what’s going on, but some doctors are calling the condition Covid pneumonia. Autopsies of a small number of people who died from Covid-19 find, because of all the water, lungs weighing more than four pounds, and in one case seven and a half pounds, compared to the normal average of under two pounds.
Blood clots

Only recently have doctors realized that Covid-19 seems to be infecting blood and damaging blood vessels. In one study, 31% of people in intensive care with Covid pneumonia had blood clots. These clots, which the body creates in an effort to stop bleeding, can break up and travel to the lungs or cut off blood flow to the brain, causing a stroke.

“Blood thinners don’t reliably prevent clotting in people with Covid-19, and young people are dying of strokes caused by the blockages in the brain,” science writer Cassandra Willyard notes in a review of the early research on the topic for the journal Nature.

The presence of blood clots can be indicated by levels of protein fragments from the clot, called D-dimer. Doctors are seeing unusually high D-dimer levels in many Covid-19 patients.

“We’ve never seen such high levels before,” says Salata, the Case Western physician. One woman recently had levels that were “just not heard of before,” he said. He and his colleagues are finding major clots as well as unusual numbers of smaller clots that can damage the heart, lungs, kidneys, and other organs.
Inflammatory syndrome in children

In late April and early May, a mysterious toxic shock syndrome began showing up in children in various countries, causing at least three deaths in New York. Some cases have been firmly tied to Covid-19 diagnoses; others have not.

The symptoms of pediatric multisystem inflammatory syndrome, as it’s being called, resemble an unrelated syndrome called Kawasaki disease, a leading cause of heart disease in children. Both are marked by high fever, rash, cracked lips, and bloodshot eyes.

It’s not clear yet if Covid-19 and Kawasaki disease are perhaps occurring simultaneously, but Salata thinks the new cases are probably yet another severe immune-system reaction to Covid-19 that only looks like Kawasaki disease. “We don’t know for sure,” Salata says, “but that’s what it really looks like.”
Loss of smell and taste

The loss of smell, called anosmia, can be caused by the common cold, when congestion mucks up nose and nasal passages. Other diseases can trigger anosmia by disrupting or killing the olfactory nerves high in the nasal cavity.

But doctors were surprised earlier this year when people with anosmia and no other symptoms, or only mild symptoms, tested positive for Covid-19. It’s not yet certain how Covid-19 triggers anosmia, but remember those receptor cells that readily receive the coronavirus, present in the lungs and elsewhere? Similar cells exist in the olfactory epithelium, a layer of skin containing the neurons that detect scents.
Covid toes

Yet another bizarre symptom of Covid-19 is ischemia of the fingers and toes, a reduction of blood flow that causes red or purplish lesions at the ends of the digits. Dubbed Covid toes, the condition can be painful and, if left untreated, can lead to tissue death. It’s showing up mostly but not exclusively in younger people, who sometimes have few other symptoms or none.

Like anosmia, Covid toe tends to heal without long-term complications, but both can be signs that someone has Covid-19 and is infectious, even if they feel no other symptoms.

Like many other complications of Covid-19, researchers have barely had time to study the reasons beyond this symptom, but one analysis, published April 15 in The Lancet, suggests it’s due to reduced function in small blood vessels.
What’s next?

Covid-19 is not alone among germs in generating a range of mild to serious outcomes.

“Viruses are so weird,” says Yonatan Grad, MD, an assistant professor of immunology and infectious diseases at Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health. Grad doesn’t mean to discount the devastating effects viruses can have, but he says they can bring “all sorts of unusual manifestations.”

The herpes virus causes unsightly cold sores, for example, but can also prompt a deadly swelling of the brain. The poliovirus generates no visible symptoms in most people while about 1 in 200 ends up with parts of their bodies paralyzed.

Meanwhile, Covid-19 likely has more surprises in store.

“We don’t know everything about this virus,” Salata says. “So stay tuned. I’m not sure we’ve seen it all yet.”
#15094268
^ ONS now has more data on this.


Most relevant graph from the above thread shows that displacement in hospitals is much smaller than increase in deaths in care homes/at home, suggesting under-counting of deaths outside hospitals:

Image
It's also inevitable that people will be avoiding going to hospital at times of a large infectious disease outbreak. Then there are, of course, terrible policy failures which are inexcusable, although it's probably not unexpected that in a situation like this some countries mess up their response. On a positive note, there's room for improvement in both cases, the reluctance of people going to hospital and the policy failures.

There have also been claims that the lockdowns themselves are the cause of some excess deaths, but countries like NZ, Norway or Israel, which reacted early and so didn't see large outbreaks, haven't had any noticeable excess deaths. This also supports the idea that people avoiding hospitals is not a response to the policies, such as lockdowns, but because of their knowledge of the outbreak.
User avatar
By Beren
#15094271
Godstud wrote:More Americans have died of Covid-19, than in all the years of the Vietnam War.

The Vietnam War wasn't really a tragedy for America, so the number of Americans that died in the Vietnam War doesn't tell much about whether what a tragedy it really was, the number of Vietnamese people that died due to the Vietnam War does, which is a couple or few millions. So how many Vietnamese have died due to COVID-19 as of yet?

► Show Spoiler
#15094277
:roll: @Beren Any place that does better than where you live, is lying or hiding results, according to you. Childish and simplistic. Provide evidence to the contrary.

Containing the coronavirus (COVID-19): Lessons from Vietnam
Since late January, the government has required all people arriving from China to submit a health declaration and undertake quarantine in government-controlled facilities for 14 days. These requirements were gradually expanded to those arriving from the Republic of Korea, the United States, and EU countries. Quarantine is largely in military facilities and is free of charge.

Testing is conducted both at entry to quarantine and upon exit. To date, 162 imported cases have been detected, which is about 60% of COVID-19 infections. International travel restrictions and institutional quarantine interrupted the influx of cases, giving the country more time to prepare.

Epidemic control teams have carried out targeted testing and aggressive contact tracing. The National Institute of Hygiene and Epidemiology succeeded in culturing and cultivating the SARS-CoV-2 virus early, enabling domestic institutions to produce test kits. The Ministry of Health initially targeted only those with travel histories for testing, along with close contacts of confirmed cases and people presenting with COVID-19 symptoms. Testing has recently been expanded to hot spot communities and at-risk settings such as wholesale markets in Hanoi and industrial zones in Ho Chi Minh City.

At least 110 laboratories across the country can perform real-time polymerase chain reaction testing for COVID-19 diagnosis, with a capacity of 27,000 samples per day. As of April 30, Vietnam had conducted 261,004 tests, with 967 tests per positive case or 2691 tests per million population.

https://blogs.worldbank.org/health/cont ... ns-vietnam

Are you really so biased against the Eastern countries, or is it you don't trust that some countries have handled the pandemic better than the West?
By Sivad
#15111179
The infection fatality rate of COVID-19 inferred from seroprevalence data
John Ioannidis

Abstract

Objective To estimate the infection fatality rate of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) from data of seroprevalence studies. Methods Population studies with sample size of at least 500 and published as peer-reviewed papers or preprints as of July 11, 2020 were retrieved from PubMed, preprint servers, and communications with experts. Studies on blood donors were included, but studies on healthcare workers were excluded. The studies were assessed for design features and seroprevalence estimates. Infection fatality rate was estimated from each study dividing the number of COVID-19 deaths at a relevant time point by the number of estimated people infected in each relevant region. Correction was also attempted accounting for the types of antibodies assessed. Secondarily, results from national studies were also examined from preliminary press releases and reports whenever a country had no other data presented in full papers of preprints. Results 36 studies (43 estimates) were identified with usable data to enter into calculations and another 7 preliminary national estimates were also considered for a total of 50 estimates. Seroprevalence estimates ranged from 0.222% to 47%. Infection fatality rates ranged from 0.00% to 1.63% and corrected values ranged from 0.00% to 1.31%. Across 32 different locations, the median infection fatality rate was 0.27% (corrected 0.24%). Most studies were done in pandemic epicenters with high death tolls. Median corrected IFR was 0.10% in locations with COVID-19 population mortality rate less than the global average (<73 deaths per million as of July 12, 2020), 0.27% in locations with 73-500 COVID-19 deaths per million, and 0.90% in locations exceeding 500 COVID-19 deaths per million. Among people <70 years old, infection fatality rates ranged from 0.00% to 0.57% with median of 0.05% across the different locations (corrected median of 0.04%). Conclusions The infection fatality rate of COVID-19 can vary substantially across different locations and this may reflect differences in population age structure and case-mix of infected and deceased patients as well as multiple other factors. Estimates of infection fatality rates inferred from seroprevalence studies tend to be much lower than original speculations made in the early days of the pandemic.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 20101253v3

#15111196
All the lying and manipulation of data in the beginning (cases) has now lead to mask-wearing as a fashion statement to indicate how passive and easily ordered around you are.

Likewise, after four months of a pandemic, I don't know a single person in my circle of friends, family and acquaintances who has died, though I do know two people who committed suicide because of "the measures."

I think COVID has demonstrated that the WHO and CDC have been infiltrated by Big Pharma.

This is the same kind of disaster that happened when Big Arms-Makers tood over defense.

Godstud wrote::roll: @Beren Any place that does better than where you live, is lying or hiding results, according to you. Childish and simplistic. Provide evidence to the contrary.

Godstud's eyeroll indicates that he is really sure of himself (he's read all the bullshit and seen all the "cases" graphs), as he goes on to recomment lockdowns and all the other measures that would appear to be fascist if their PR wasn't so tight (thanks Bill and other vaccine investors for the media control).
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111197
QatzelOk wrote:All the lying and manipulation of data in the beginning (cases) has now lead to mask-wearing as a fashion statement to indicate how passive and easily ordered around you are.

All of this eating and breathing that you are doing as a fashion statement to indicate how passive and easily ordered around you are. Exercise your freedom of not eating and not breathing!
(Disclaimer: not responsible for harm caused to you by being an idiotic fuck and decide not to eat or breathe)
#15111198
QatzelOk wrote:All the lying and manipulation of data in the beginning (cases) has now lead to mask-wearing as a fashion statement to indicate how passive and easily ordered around you are.

Likewise, after four months of a pandemic, I don't know a single person in my circle of friends, family and acquaintances who has died, though I do know two people who committed suicide because of "the measures."


My experience is different, I know of twenty people who have had the virus. 3; have died, 2 are still ill despite it being over two months since they first showed symptoms.

I also know of one suicide, although I can't say it was lockdown measures that caused it.

Does wearing a mask in public enclosed spaces really bother you that much?
User avatar
By XogGyux
#15111201
QatzelOk wrote:I think COVID has demonstrated that the WHO and CDC have been infiltrated by Big Pharma.

I missed that part.
Please explain how social distancing and/or masks benefit Big Pharma in anyway...
Spread of the virus and more people sick, on the other hand, would indeed benefit Big Pharma. Your stupid theory is backward fool.
User avatar
By Tainari88
#15111204
@XogGyux a lot of people are dying in my city due to CoVid19, they are going back to 'semaforo rojo'. That means drastic measures. I have hired a tutor for my little boy to get ready for August when none of the kids can attend school. They will be taught at home online. It is terrible. No fresh air, no parks, no stores, no sports, no cultural activities, no dance, and no social interaction. Kids need that for healthy development. This is a world wide problem. Where are the solutions from that Orange Tan man asshole and the others who don't have plans at all?

Vaccinations are not the answer. They need to find a way of re-opening a normal school schedule. So many kids in Mexico don't have internet or computers, or tablets. They don't have the technology. If they stay home they get zero education. You can't allow kids to fall behind for a year or two til this blows over. It is not acceptable.

Incomptent assholes in charge is not going to help.
By Sivad
#15111206
QatzelOk wrote:
I think COVID has demonstrated that the WHO and CDC have been infiltrated by Big Pharma.






Why The WHO Faked A Pandemic

The World Health Organization has suddenly gone from crying "The sky is falling!" like a cackling Chicken Little to squealing like a stuck pig. The reason: charges that the agency deliberately fomented swine flu hysteria. "The world is going through a real pandemic. The description of it as a fake is wrong and irresponsible," the agency claims on its Web site. A WHO spokesman declined to specify who or what gave this "description," but the primary accuser is hard to ignore.

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE), a human rights watchdog, is publicly investigating the WHO's motives in declaring a pandemic. Indeed, the chairman of its influential health committee, epidemiologist Wolfgang Wodarg, has declared that the "false pandemic" is "one of the greatest medicine scandals of the century."

Even within the agency, the director of the WHO Collaborating Center for Epidemiology in Munster, Germany, Dr. Ulrich Kiel, has essentially labeled the pandemic a hoax. "We are witnessing a gigantic misallocation of resources [$18 billion so far] in terms of public health," he said.

They're right. This wasn't merely overcautiousness or simple misjudgment. The pandemic declaration and all the Klaxon-ringing since reflect sheer dishonesty motivated not by medical concerns but political ones.

Unquestionably, swine flu has proved to be vastly milder than ordinary seasonal flu. It kills at a third to a tenth the rate, according to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates. Data from other countries like France and Japan indicate it's far tamer than that.

Indeed, judging by what we've seen in New Zealand and Australia (where the epidemics have ended), and by what we're seeing elsewhere in the world, we'll have considerably fewer flu deaths this season than normal. That's because swine flu muscles aside seasonal flu, acting as a sort of inoculation against the far deadlier strain.

Did the WHO have any indicators of this mildness when it declared the pandemic in June?

Absolutely, as I wrote at the time. We were then fully 11 weeks into the outbreak and swine flu had only killed 144 people worldwide--the same number who die of seasonal flu worldwide every few hours. (An estimated 250,000 to 500,000 per year by the WHO's own numbers.) The mildest pandemics of the 20th century killed at least a million people.

But how could the organization declare a pandemic when its own official definition required "simultaneous epidemics worldwide with enormous numbers of deaths and illness." Severity--that is, the number of deaths--is crucial, because every year flu causes "a global spread of disease."

Easy. In May, in what it admitted was a direct response to the outbreak of swine flu the month before, WHO promulgated a new definition matched to swine flu that simply eliminated severity as a factor. You could now have a pandemic with zero deaths.

Under fire, the organization is boldly lying about the change, to which anybody with an Internet connection can attest. In a mid-January virtual conference WHO swine flu chief Keiji Fukuda stated: "Did WHO change its definition of a pandemic? The answer is no: WHO did not change its definition." Two weeks later at a PACE conference he insisted: "Having severe deaths has never been part of the WHO definition."

They did it; but why?

In part, it was CYA for the WHO. The agency was losing credibility over the refusal of avian flu H5N1 to go pandemic and kill as many as 150 million people worldwide, as its "flu czar" had predicted in 2005.

Around the world nations heeded the warnings and spent vast sums developing vaccines and making other preparations. So when swine flu conveniently trotted in, the WHO essentially crossed out "avian," inserted "swine," and WHO Director-General Margaret Chan arrogantly boasted, "The world can now reap the benefits of investments over the last five years in pandemic preparedness."

But there's more than bureaucratic self-interest at work here. Bizarrely enough, the WHO has also exploited its phony pandemic to push a hard left political agenda.

In a September speech WHO Director-General Chan said "ministers of health" should take advantage of the "devastating impact" swine flu will have on poorer nations to get out the message that "changes in the functioning of the global economy" are needed to "distribute wealth on the basis of" values "like community, solidarity, equity and social justice." She further declared it should be used as a weapon against "international policies and systems that govern financial markets, economies, commerce, trade and foreign affairs."

Chan's dream now lies in tatters. All the WHO has done, says PACE's Wodart, is to destroy "much of the credibility that they should have, which is invaluable to us if there's a future scare that might turn out to be a killer on a large scale."

https://www.forbes.com/2010/02/05/world ... a043c048e8




WHO swine flu experts 'linked' with drug companies

Key scientists behind World Health Organization advice on stockpiling of pandemic flu drugs had financial ties with companies which stood to profit, an investigation has found.

https://www.bbc.com/news/10235558


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